billiken_roy Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 many dont like kevin slaten, but he makes some great points. he asked, why did no one take more than 10 shots last night? he pointed out that vouyoukas was 5-6, lisch was 3-3 and newborne was 3-4 11-13 combined for 85%!!! yet 5 other guys had as many shots as lisch and newborne. and were a combined 7 - 25 or 28%. it isnt that the billikens didnt shoot well, they didnt get the hot shooters the ball enough to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLURadioBoy Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I was listening to it too Roy. I actually agree too. If we have some hot shooters, we need to get them the ball. Ian and Kevin should at least have 10 shots every game, especially if a lot of the other players are struggling. "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Radio, imo it should be IV and whatever guard/wings are hot getting the shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I think it comes down to do you want guys forcing shots because they made their first few and are "hot" or do you want guys shooting within the flow of the offense. As for IV, he went to the line 10 times so that certainly cut down on his shot attempts. I can't remember him forcing much which in my opinion is a good thing. I think as the team matures, the scorers will emerge but I think right now, everyone is trying to find their place. Last time I checked, VN wasn't Jordan, I don't want him jacking up 20 shots a game because he made a couple lay ups in a row. In my opinion, Slaten is still an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLURadioBoy Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Good point Cowboy. I just figured since Kevin is supposed to be such a great shooter, we should give him his fair amount of shots. He's our best threat from 3-point land. "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 IV probably took 10 shots but he was fouled 5 times and those do not count as shots. He made 7 -10 fts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 1, 2005 Author Share Posted December 1, 2005 good point phan. the flow of the game is important and you dont want them to "force shots". however, last night, i thought that some of drejaj, polk, brown, johnson, and liddell's misses were indeed forced. and granted i probably focus on lisch too much, but he sure was standing wide open a lot last night. your point about ian getting fouled a lot thus nullifying some of his shot attempts is a good one too. as long as ian is making those free throws, which he is at a rate of 71% right now (pretty good for a big imo), another good reason to get him to put it up more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Wow Phan! You should stick to basketball. I could've written exactly what you wrote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 1, 2005 Author Share Posted December 1, 2005 i'd hate to put words in slaten's mouth, but i would bet his answer would be that until ian is flat out missing more than 2 our of every shot attempts, he wants ian shooting more. ian is a great passer. but if the pass is going to a 31% shooter instead of the 50% shooter, i'd like my chances of ian making it inside with two guys on him, more than passing out to that guy. at least until proven otherwise. if memory serves me right, it is amazing how often the ball ended up in claggett and highmark's hands. why cant the same (getting it in the hot shooter's hands) be happening on this team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Slaten's great points are so overshadowed by him being such an ass, it's hard to lend him even the slightest credibility. Were saying to feed Ian the ball more bought I thought that was the strategy all along. He is the only we knew we were going try and feel the ball relentlessly. Until we starting making the threes though it will be harder and harder to feed Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I didn't get a chance to see the game or listen to it on the radio, but the paper said Ian got double teamed as SIU tried to deny him the ball and force him outside throughout the second half. Under those circumstances, rather than force shots, it's better to open up opportunities for others. If you would have told me before the game that Tommie and Danny would each only have 2 points, I never would have guessed we would have won the game, not to mention by 14. That's a good sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 None of our guards is that confident of their shots right now. The only guard with the confidence is Drejaj. All of them have passed up open shots this year. It's what freshmen do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 1, 2005 Author Share Posted December 1, 2005 on ian, i think the point is he needs to be more aggressive to the basket. or if he is going to pass out, pass out to the better shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I'm all for Ian being the number one option and shot taker on this team. Having said that, I don't know how much I want him to force shots when they're double teaming him. I guess if he thinks he can split the double team or if he has good position then he should go for it. I just think that right now, he is probably better off passing to the open man more often than not. Somebody on this team is going to have to start knocking down open looks or it doesn't matter how many shots Ian takes. I agree with Rich. I think the kids aren't comfortable putting up a bunch of shots yet. I think the time will come when KL and TL will rival Claggett and Highmark. I just think they're there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 assuming we are talking shooting only, boy phan, i hope you are right about tommie, but right now i would not think he is ever going to be in the fantasy horse games with highmark and claggett. now as a scorer that is a different story i have bigtime beliefs about tommie as a scorer. his nose for the basket is obvious. and he needs to take it to the basket more imo rather than putting up 15+ foot jumpers and fade aways. his air ball last night was painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I missed the game live because of a dinner commitment I could not get out of so I watched the game on tape late last night. As I watched I thought that the keys to this team in terms of beating good teams will be shot selection and disciplined play. Early in the game we pounded the ball inside and for the most part took good shots. Although I thought Tommie and Danny took some ill advised shots, that continued until we got up 19-6. The Ian went out and we played like drunken sailors on leave with a big wad of money in our pocket. Our "running" game was almost ridiculous in terms of dumb turnovers and forced bad shots. That allowed SIU to come back before the half. In the second half we played pretty smart for about the last ten minutes after again making a bunch of dumb plays and taking some very questionable shots. Getting the ball into the hands of the better shooters is only part of the issue. Tommie and Danny can score the ball but they must learn to take good shots. If they continue to struggle from the outside then we will need to play VN becuse he has the best shooting touch from 15-18 feet on the team except for Lisch when he gets square to the basket. the thing that is most frustrating to me is to see Ian dominating his man and our young guys fire up an outside shot without even looking to get the ball in to Ian. That is old fashioned rec center basketball which has no place in D-1 ball when you have a potentially dominant center. Overall, I commend Drejaj and Polk for their defensive effort and their attempt to run with discipline. What is amazing is that after I finished watching the game I felt we had underachieved in terms of how we had played yet we beat SIU by 14 points! If the whole team continues to improve in terms of shot selection and overall discipline on the offensive end we will be very tough to beat come conference time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Agreed. I should have clarified that. TL as a scorer, not a shooter. I winced as well on that shot. I guess there is a transition these guys have to make from being the man to being another option. I kind of like that they're sharing the ball right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Slaten is an idiot. Ian had a huge amount of touches esp in the first half. He got fouled on most of them that is why he had 10 fts. He didn't shoot in the second cuz he was doubled and tripled every time he touched the ball. Lisch was 3-3 great for him. He made two layups and a 3. Not exactly hot shooting. The kid isn't Erwin Clagett yet. His time will come. VN came to play last night but he can only make shots from one spot on the floor. Not something you can build your offense around. IMO he took too many shots. He should never shoot 3s. I think we doo get bogged down on the perimeter and settle for threes too much. That is the price you pay for clearing out for Ian though and we have to do that he is our best player. I would like us to take less 3s and have Brown and Liddell going to the basket. Lideel has got to hit some mid range and pull ups of the dribble eventually. That is his bread and butter and he hasn't any yet this season. Polk and Drejaj are both streaky outside shooters who can be cold at any time. Lisch has been a solid 3 point shooter so far but that doesn't make it right for him to throw up 10 bombs a game. Meyer has not fit into the offense at all so far this season. He is our only other consistent 3 point threat, at least on paper in games he hasn't shown his shooting prowess much. We scored as much as we could. We may want to run but teams like SIUC are going to slow us down just like we have slowed down every team we played the past 5 years. A win is a win, we got it over a regional rival who killed us last year. Our big man is one of the best in the country. Move onto to the next game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 torch said, "He made two layups and a 3. Not exactly hot shooting." the one "layup" was hardly a walk in the park. he made that basket on his own. my point is that the scoring opps should increase for whomever is scoring at will. if lisch was 3-3 he should have shot more. regardless of how it came to him. who's to say he couldnt have created a couple more "layups" like the one earl monroe drive he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If he's too aggressive then he picks up stupid fouls. Ian is doing just fine. AsSlaten takes the final stats and acts as if every player is sitting out there all game with the stat sheet, deciding to whom to pass. You take what the opposition gives you. Lots of IV's shots were put backs and easy shots, not ones that he generated. Let's see how they do at UWM to determine what we have here. A balanced, smart road game will do more to help me to sleep at night than a 25 pt game by IV, but a loss since he fouled out since he didn't pass the ball to the guards enough. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 broy, I'm all for IV being aggressive, but he has to pick his spots and avoid careless foul trouble. As far as passing out to the "better shooters".....I'm not so sure the better shooter is going to be the perimeter player that's open. It would seem to me that the defense would overplay/deny the "better shooter", thus forcing the pass to the less defended player. It may not be as easy as it might look from 18 rows up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Did you hear them discuss the article about the game. It was very harshly written. Actually, if you read the Post writeup of that game, the author is pretty critical. Here is the link: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/s...ri/13288446.htm funny article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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