guest Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Long time Bills fan, has to rant and ask a few questions. Why is Luke Meyer playing? Is he better than DC and JJ? Was there not discussion of him being redshirted...but now he gets ten minutes a game to come in, miss shots and look lost...? Where is Darren Clarke? He can shoot, we cannot score, we cannot shoot well. I don't understand why the only pure shooter we have on the team does not play at all. Where is Justin Johnson? I am sorry but I am counting the days until Izik is out of here. Why is he averaging so many minutes? Wow, he has a lot of rebounds, he plays every minute, and how is it impressive to grab boards when we have incompetant centers? JJ may be immature and unproven, but with the offensive whoas we are having, you have got to be kidding me that he does not deserve one minute of playing time. I know Brad loves guys that practice hard, and who doesn't, but if you cannot play well then what is the point? [End rant] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 The point is you play people who have their head together, in practice and during the game. ANYONE who can lead the team in rebounds in multiple games and gut it on defense deserves to be the starter, and to play major minutes. We have a typical Bills team which, unfortunately, is short a couple horses. Almost half the rotation is new to the team, and everyone is having trouble putting the ball in the ocean. For everyone who wants to rant about this and that without noting much constructive, remember your kid(or nephew) and the basketball skills they possessed at age eight, and `how much they improved by age eleven. Many of the players on the team are in the midst of making a similar transition, only these games count. Perspective is essential if you want to ***** and complain. With the stallions we are getting in the next two years and the coaching staff we have, we are two players and two years away from the second or third round of the NCAA tournament. The last time we went through a similar start, we had Carlos Skinner, Melvin Robinson, McGlother Irvin, and the 25th best recruiting class in the country with Claggett, Winfield, Highmark, Ryan, and the forward from North County, and we went 5-23. Two years later we were dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 That's funny, but I thought that one of the reasons we were able to come back from that 12-0 start was the play of Luke Meyer. He is all over the place, looks toward the basket bringing the ball in instead of away. Sure he needs to bulk up and get some stronger, but I thought his play was one of the bright spots from last nite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 .... I would be extremely careful in calling our incoming guys "stallions." I am sure the intent was positive as I am sure Sheltie is a long-suffering Billikanite as we all are. But I still remember when one rating service gave Saint Louis the best recruit in CUSA that year ..... and it was the aforementioned Tyrone Caswell. I like what I am hearing about Lisch and Liddell. I also remember some of our other "great" recruiting classes like Hughes' group and Claggs' group. Both were highly ranked and raved about .... but we learned just how short things were once Hughes left, and the Claggs class happened to be the straw the broke Grawer's back and didn't really mean much until Waldman and Dobbs were added a year or two later. Your notes on the Ryan kid and the Bickel kid from North County are irrelevant ... those kids were part of sending Grawer packing but both mattered nothing in the run to the NCAAs. As Polk has shown so far, there is a distinct learning curve for high schoolers to make coming to D-1. True superstars make that jump ... like Hughes, Deng, Gay, White and others. But short of one aberration that was Hughes ... Saint Louis University does not get those kids. Do not throw caution to the wind. We need to salvage as much as we can for this year and enter next year with everyone scaling their expectations down a notch. I can't see our front line being that far removed from "project" status next year -- unless something huge happens to them this year. Our shooter (singular) will be gone unless DC?DB/LM is developed in the near term. Our PG gets better just by being older, and our JUCO guy has his requisite one year in the system and D1. But the main cogs appear to be the freshmen; with no AB2 yet on the horizon, and the usual JUCO taking a year to develop, I see a similar team next year .. albeit one with a larger upside. That does not make this year a wash just yet. I had us at 5 and 1 at this point and it is the complete opposite. I too can't figure out where the next win is coming from but I'm sure it will come. Soon ... and I don't know when it will be ... we should maybe adjust our sights and start developing our younger players. But I don't want to see us sacrifice a RB's status if he is playing his heart out as I'm sure he is. I'm not there, I don't have the answers. All I can do is sit and watch from afar, hanging my head when I see the other team scoring 50 because at this point, I don't know if we can get that high playing three halvves of basketball, let alone two. Gonna be a long year ....... good teams do not lose at home, to anyone let alone directional schools, satellite schools and preachers. Just does NOT happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 "With the stallions we are getting in the next two years" Sheltiedave, Who do we have coming in '06? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 The reason Meyer plays is because he busts his butt. If you scored a "plus/minus" rating like they do in hockey I would guess that he was one of the leaders last night because he was in when we started to play well. He worked hard on defense and agressively attacked the defense. He is not afraid and his shot has a nice rotation. The one 3 ball he missed was right on with a soft touch and it was rebounded for a basket. I would like to see him get more minutes. I feel the same way about Danny Brown. With regard to Clarke and JJ--I watched them both very carefully in the warm ups and during the game. I would suggest you watch their attitude and approach. They do not have the intensity for perfection that I would expect see. They don't seem to even care if they make their layups as long as they look good. It drives me crazy to se players like that because I really believe that you practice as you play and warm up. If you are serious and intense and want perfection at all times then you can expect to play. if you want to fool around and work on your "moves" then I would not expect very much pt. Just my opinion-- I could be all wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Maybe the lay up thing is that they don't know they are going to play, so why bother? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 This is college basketball - a big part of the team is going to be new every single season. You have to adapt. I'm not saying we should expect to win the conference in years where we have lots of new players, but we shouldn't be 1-5 against the competition we've played. Give me a break. I would suggest you've lost perspective if you are defending these results. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to be constructive with a team that is lucky to break 60 points. This team is very, very bad. It's very dangerous in college basketball to talk about the new recruits all the time. New recruits are coming in every single season. You can't just say "who cares that we're horrible this season, we've got great recruits next year." It's obvious that many people on this board care about this season - as they should - every season counts. Looks like this one is a lost cause. I like our coach, I don't love him though. This guy has made some major recruiting mistakes with kids that haven't made the grade. Those mistakes are a direct cause of this "lost" season. >The point is you play people who have their head together, >in practice and during the game. ANYONE who can lead the >team in rebounds in multiple games and gut it on defense >deserves to be the starter, and to play major minutes. > >We have a typical Bills team which, unfortunately, is short >a couple horses. Almost half the rotation is new to the >team, and everyone is having trouble putting the ball in the >ocean. > >For everyone who wants to rant about this and that without >noting much constructive, remember your kid(or nephew) and >the basketball skills they possessed at age eight, and `how >much they improved by age eleven. Many of the players on the >team are in the midst of making a similar transition, only >these games count. Perspective is essential if you want to >***** and complain. > >With the stallions we are getting in the next two years and >the coaching staff we have, we are two players and two years >away from the second or third round of the NCAA tournament. >The last time we went through a similar start, we had Carlos >Skinner, Melvin Robinson, McGlother Irvin, and the 25th best >recruiting class in the country with Claggett, Winfield, >Highmark, Ryan, and the forward from North County, and we >went 5-23. Two years later we were dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 Personally on the side of DC and JJ looking nonchalant with their pregame lay ups...I know if I was on a 1-5 team, that was playing horrible offense, and I know that I am an offensive minded player who is not going to log one single minute in this game unless there is a 20 point score differential, I wouldn't put much effort into my pregame warm ups either. Are we the only team that has a second string of bench warmers? First comes in JJ and DC when it is a blowout, but then when do the walkons come out? They must be unbelievably far down the totem pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 ...have the Billikens been involved in over the past three seasons for you to conclude that walk-ons don't play even then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 NYBill, I couldn't agree more! (Finally!) I am starting to question Brad myself for the first time. I'm not saying he can't pull it together still, but I think he has dropped the ball thus far. I will be the first to tell you that the players have to make the shots, and Brad can't shoot for them. But, the fact that we have RB back, TF back, and IO is actually playing well and we are 1-5 against the teams we have played is unacceptable. Polk is just where we all expected him to be. I hate to tell everybody, but I don't look forward to next year - at least not yet. Brad has to show me, and I think he will, that he can make it work with whatever lineup he has. TL and KL may be great players, but we will still struggle if we do not find our rhythm offensively. We are seeing that this year with Reggie. He is a great offensive threat and for what he's capable of, he's been somewhat ineffective overall. Whatver it is, I sure hope Brad figures it all out. Whether you agree or not, the rest of this season and next season as well all comes down to Brad figuring this out. If he doesn't, all the talent in the world won't make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Wow! If that is their attitude then they should not be on the team at all. I am obviously "old school" but my view is that everyone that tries to do anything should always give their best. They should use every layup as an opportunity to get better--to develop good mechanics and develop muscle memory. I was a starter and a bench player over my playing career and I always tried to get better and I was mad if I missed a layup in the practice line or if I missed a shot in the warmups. Maybe things are different today but I see that same attitude in Polk so at least some of the young ballplayers understand what it takes to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 See my above post in reply to SSGUY. Anyone who does not give it his all in practice and in all aspects of pregame warmups should not be on the team. Period! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I don't know what you do for a living but I doubt you give 100% to your job each and every day. If I was giving my employer my all I wouldn't be typing this right now. They are human not machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I've known you to always give 110%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 kshoe, getting a little nervous about xmas? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 actually, one of Willie's least favorite statements from athletes is "I'm just gonna give 110% blah blah blah". Willie doesn't believe anybody can give more than 100% otherwise the 110% they just gave would be the new 100%. Roy, you should stop by during the shootout tomorrow. Willie, sshoe and kshoe will be in section 117 row J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 First of all, no one is anymore disappointed with last night's performace than me and I agree normally that those who work hard should get the playing time. However, at some point those who work hard but are not that good need to understand that their working hard is what got them on the team and will get them some playing minutes but if you continually get beat by your opposition because of your lack of skill then something has to give. Brad recruited DC and JJ - he has to either decide how to play them or encourage them to move on for their own good and the good of the team. If they want to stay then fine but then he has to use them in some positive way. Clearly this team is missing the leadership of Fish and CS. RB and IO and TF have not filled the void. Polk is playing fine but he needs to have someone help him out. RB has to figure out how to take and make a shot with someone covering him. IO works hard but he has the knack of making a mistake at the most critical times - when he was called for traveling in the second half after we made two good stops on the other end was a killer - we could have taken the lead and maybe gotten something going. AD tried but his not the shooter on the team so to ask him to start scoring 15 pts a game is not realistic. Actually, I agree with those of you about Luke - he at least got the team hustling and to stop standing around. I even liked what I saw from Brown - I know he missed 3 shots before he hit the 3 pointer but at least he was not afraid to take a shot like everybody else. TF's play was just terrible - he struggled getting rebounds, making close in shots, and got called on fouls at inopportune times - either when Polk made a 3 pointer that was disallowed or when the team had just put the blanket defensively on but his foul either sent someone to the line or gave them a new 35 second clock. Brad is frustrated but that is why he makes the big bucks - he needs to figure it out. I am not saying he is not trying in fact the quote in the paper today was good to hear - he is going to blow the team up and start from scratch to decide who should be playing - I hope he means it and does not cool down in a day or two and end up with the same old same old. Free throw shooting - what can I say - just make them. This missing FT is getting old and simply has to stop - for a team struggling to score they can not afford to miss any FTs. How Brad turns this around is easier said then done but he has no choice he has to - like I said, he gets the money and the long term contract now perform for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 not sure where my tix are. pickett told me to pick them up tomorrow at the will call window. so i will have to find you guys. i plan on making a day of it. even gonna get there early enough to see the future jilliken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I can promise you that I bust my butt every day and I expect that attitude from all of the people who work with me. There is nothing magical about commitment and effort. Everyone can give 100%--all it takes is a personal decision not to settle for less from yourself. I am not saying everyone is perfect and we all make mistakes but no one should ever give less effort than their best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I agree if you can't give your best in practice and in warmups how do you expect to in the game ... and how do the coaches know when you will or when you won't. Win or lose the one thing the the coach has to be able to depend on is that the player will give his absolute best. The problems this season come down to two players who have not net expectations for what ever reasons. Maybe injury, maybe something else I don't know ... but if TF and RB had played up to expectations we would have at least 4 wins under our belt probably 5. There are other players who have not produced as expected but none have hurt as much as those two. They are our leaders ... the ones we thought would be our heart and soul. I beleive they both will come through. I think they are both the type of players who do give it all every night. I can't explain the slumps ... but I would stick with them. I noticed that last night TF was 0-0 in 17 minutes, and RB was 3-8 in 33 minutes. We cannot have the two of them taking 8 shots in 50 minutes ... Tom needs to be on the floor for 25-30 minutes and needs to take 6-8 shots. Reggie needs to play 30 plus minutes and take 15 shots a game and we have to find out how to get them for them. If I was coach I would figure out how to work it out with those two guys. We not only need them we must have them. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 TF played only 17 min. because he was in foul trouble all night. RB simply was having trouble getting free - like I said above, he is going to have learn how to shoot effectively without being wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 He is only averaging 18 minutes a game and has only taken 23 shots total. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 That's the thing. Tom's offensive production is pitiful...the other night, 4 fouls in 17 (or so) minutes and what, 2 points?! PUT BRYCE IN! If anything, he can block shots...and even if he only scores a bucket or two, he's still got around the same points that TF or IV would have, right? From my observations, the only way they are going to start getting baskets under the net is if they quicken their offense. They hold the ball too long, and by the time they get the ball inside, there are 3-4 guys on top of our big man. How does anyone expect them to score when the opposition has enough time to go to the bench, get a drink of water, get a pep talk from their coach, and then come back out on the court for defense and the Bills STILL have the ball on the outside, without a shot taken? In the Hawaii game, early in the 2nd half they showed flashes of brilliance when the offense was rushed; they got the ball to the big man without anyone from Hawaii defending them. Unless the outside shooters can start making their shots consistently, we have to rely on the inside, but the only way that will work is if they quicken the offense. I don't know a ton about basketball but I attend all of the SLU games, and I am just sick and tired of watching the Bills sloooow offense, pass pass pass pass, take a three point shot, completely miss, then the other team rushes down for a layup or a two point shot quickly, etc etc. Eventually, our shot inconsistency and the other teams ability to make the layups and the inside shot add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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