Big East expansion coming?

[TheChosenOne]

20 hours ago, JMM28 said:

The Pac10 had an inherent advantage in the P5 war as they were the only conference on the west coast. All the west coast major media markets (6 of the top 20 in the country), hypothetically better academic institutions, and a massive mountain range to cross to invade them. 

Somehow they screwed it up and are on the brink of extinction. Amazingly inept management that would make their fellow California government officials blush. 

I was texting with some friends yesterday and I was asking how the heck did the Big 12 seemingly rise from the ashes vs. the Pac-12 falling to this point where their survival is now in question. I candidly haven’t followed it closely enough (once Mizzou got into the SEC I just never cared what all was going on), but the leadership of the Big 12 really stepped up and apparently the leadership of the Pac-12 fell asleep at the wheel. Something I need to look into when I have time because it is wild to me that the Pac-12 (like you said) is at this point. And then on the other side of it, the Big 12 got real active.

And obviously based on the above, I have no idea what SLU’s chances would be of getting a call from the Big East. I just haven’t followed any of the conference realignment closely at all. On paper I’d have to think we are on the short list and while I’m sure we can all point to the various factors likely to be considered who knows what the deciding factors become once they get into a room to make a decision. Ideally we are doing everything we can to lobby for a spot. This was our last season getting season tickets and my general disinterest in the conference is a big factor for no longer wanting to spend that sort of $ on tickets when so many games I have little to no interest in and based on our inability to find folks to give them away to we aren’t the only folks in St. Louis who feel the same way.

[Lord Elrond]

12 hours ago, The Wiz said:

And that TV negotiating window opens in Feb 2024...after game 22...might be better to be 19-3 than 12-11 at that point to be under consideration. As pointed out in the above posts, there are many factors that go into the decision but the BE has always been...what have you done lately that would benefit me.

If we had the season that we were projected to have last year (top 25 in preseason) we might already be in serious negotiations with the Big East about joining the Big East.

The Big East isn’t driven by football like the other power conferences, so that does limit who they take in. They might still take us in, they might not, it all depends on what the potential tv viewership (and potential money they can make) of adding SLU to the Big East looks like to the TV side.  If I had to guess, we don’t get in.

[TheA_Bomb]

2 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

I was texting with some friends yesterday and I was asking how the heck did the Big 12 seemingly rise from the ashes vs. the Pac-12 falling to this point where their survival is now in question. I candidly haven’t followed it closely enough (once Mizzou got into the SEC I just never cared what all was going on), but the leadership of the Big 12 really stepped up and apparently the leadership of the Pac-12 fell asleep at the wheel. Something I need to look into when I have time because it is wild to me that the Pac-12 (like you said) is at this point. And then on the other side of it, the Big 12 got real active.

And obviously based on the above, I have no idea what SLU’s chances would be of getting a call from the Big East. I just haven’t followed any of the conference realignment closely at all. On paper I’d have to think we are on the short list and while I’m sure we can all point to the various factors likely to be considered who knows what the deciding factors become once they get into a room to make a decision. Ideally we are doing everything we can to lobby for a spot. This was our last season getting season tickets and my general disinterest in the conference is a big factor for no longer wanting to spend that sort of $ on tickets when so many games I have little to no interest in and based on our inability to find folks to give them away to we aren’t the only folks in St. Louis who feel the same way.

B12 had an asleep at the wheel Commissioner Bob Bowlsby he was a likeable senior citizen.  He had no prior notice until the announcement that Texas and OU were leaving the conference.  That is sad, it means he had no sources, no connections to warn him of such a huge change in the organization. B12 hired a new Commissioner B. Yormark and that guy is active. He is taking advantage of the P12s leadership vacuum. Shows you what a proactive Commissioner with vision can do.

Here's my prediction, CU back to B12, AZ and ASU (possibly Utah) to B12, P12 implodes UW and Oregon to B10.  B10 isn't moving on UW and Oregon now for fear of being sued but once the other dominoes fall that's no longer a concern. 

[Dr Bird]

21 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

B12 had an asleep at the wheel Commissioner Bob Bowlsby he was a likeable senior citizen.  He had no prior notice until the announcement that Texas and OU were leaving the conference.  That is sad, it means he had no sources, no connections to warn him of such a huge change in the organization. B12 hired a new Commissioner B. Yormark and that guy is active. He is taking advantage of the P12s leadership vacuum. Shows you what a proactive Commissioner with vision can do.

Here's my prediction, CU back to B12, AZ and ASU (possibly Utah) to B12, P12 implodes UW and Oregon to B10.  B10 isn't moving on UW and Oregon now for fear of being sued but once the other dominoes fall that's no longer a concern. 

So if the PAC12 is imploding, where will Cal and Stanford go?  With Cal's and Stanford's academic credentials, I would guess B10?

[TheA_Bomb]

9 minutes ago, Dr Bird said:

So if the PAC12 is imploding, where will Cal and Stanford go?  With Cal's and Stanford's academic credentials, I would guess B10?

I haven't heard about Cal and Stanford. They have some culture issues that may stop them from joining certain conferences ( exame B12 w/ Baylor).  B10 seems likely.  Or stay in Pac and add other teams.  They need to figure something out quick or they're going to be on a streaming only deal for much less $ then the other big conferences and continue to slip. The P12 as it is now turned down a streaming only offer but now with the changes they can't even get that offer back.

Also I think any concern for academics is not in the equation anymore. 

[Brighton]

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

If we had the season that we were projected to have last year (top 25 in preseason) we might already be in serious negotiations with the Big East about joining the Big East.

No conference is that short sighted.  Long term, not short term, is the focus.  Market shares, local support, long term success, fans traveling to conference tourney's are much more important than what did you do yesterday.  What can you bring to the table for the next decade, can you enhance our revenue, that is the issue?

If you follow your line of thinking, Dayton is in trouble too.  They had a Top25 team, with 2 potential NBA players, and didn't make the NCAA. 

[Brighton]

21 hours ago, Compton said:

There's still something to be said for media market even if the Bills aren't getting Cardinals-like viewership. There's a reason that schools like Rutgers and Cincy get scooped while Western Kentucky and Memphis get left behind. Conferences want to be in the biggest possible media markets.

Forget Cardinals viewership, they aren't close to the Blues' numbers.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Shows you what a proactive Commissioner with vision can do.

 

we wouldnt know anything about that.   bernie will not have the word "proactive" or the phrase "with vision" on her tombstone.

[HoosierPal]

No vote to expand was taken by the Big 12.  No invitations to the conference were issued.  Yes scenarios were discussed. 

UConn remains in the Big East (for now). 

This thread can go back into hibernation.

[Lord Elrond]

Translation: they couldn’t find a combination of schools to add that would net every school more tv money per year than they get by staying the size they are right now.  

[HoosierPal]

40 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Translation: they couldn’t find a combination of schools to add that would net every school more tv money per year than they get by staying the size they are right now.  

No

[bauman]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, Dr Bird said:

So if the PAC12 is imploding, where will Cal and Stanford go?  With Cal's and Stanford's academic credentials, I would guess B10?

They also have Wash St and Ore St to deal with

[TheA_Bomb]

Wild idea I got from a question submitted to Josh Pate's "Late Kick" podcast/webshow (highly recommended for CFB fans).  Anyway,  question was would relegation make College Sports better? This intrigue was started because SEC Commissioner shared pictures of books he was reading and 1 was about the English Professional League. So the wild speculation is what if the SEC and say the Sunbelt Conference had an agreement for relegation. Top Sunbelt team moves to SEC for next season and bottom SEC team is relegated to Sunbelt. It is an interesting way to make Vanderbilt games matter for TV.

If the A10 were to do this you could go multiple ways....A10 as the upper conference to Ohio Valley (for example) and perhaps could even add an upper to A10 the Big East.  Would be interesting could make a deal to preserve rivalry games and scheduling between leagues to increase SOS etc. Could cooperate on TV deals too.

 

Just an interesting discussion that adds intrigue.

[wgstl]

interesting indeed. I do find it difficult to make the Tourney if you were in the lower conf that season. So in this case if it was BE and A10, and you had a really good season in the A10, I doubt they give you much slack because you weren't in the promoted league that year

[TheA_Bomb]

17 minutes ago, wgstl said:

interesting indeed. I do find it difficult to make the Tourney if you were in the lower conf that season. So in this case if it was BE and A10, and you had a really good season in the A10, I doubt they give you much slack because you weren't in the promoted league that year

Yeah there could be a perception from being in the lesser league but all the same tournament selection criteria still apply. This kinda arrangement would be done outside the NCAA as a TV/ competition agreement between leagues.

[Lord Elrond]

18 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yeah there could be a perception from being in the lesser league but all the same tournament selection criteria still apply. This kinda arrangement would be done outside the NCAA as a TV/ competition agreement between leagues.

There might have to be an agreement between the two conferences doing this to have “x” number of non-conference games between the two every year for this to make sense.

One thing I have seen claimed is that the primary benefit to relegation is to force out bad owners, but in the NCAA world with each team “owned” by the university, that wouldn’t ever apply.

[Lord Elrond]

One other thing, what sport would control this? Right now, for example, the SEC has championships in all sports. Say a school (use Vandy for an example), is really bad at football, but middle of the pack in basketball. Do they get relegated out of the SEC based on their poor football performance, or stay in the SEC because they were at least average in basketball? You would have to have a way to consider the different sports, or you would have to have a different conference structure for every sport.

[cgeldmacher]

1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

One other thing, what sport would control this? Right now, for example, the SEC has championships in all sports. Say a school (use Vandy for an example), is really bad at football, but middle of the pack in basketball. Do they get relegated out of the SEC based on their poor football performance, or stay in the SEC because they were at least average in basketball? You would have to have a way to consider the different sports, or you would have to have a different conference structure for every sport.

Yes, Vanderbilt baseball has been champions of the SEC 10 times.  Should they be relegated just because their football team sucks?

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Yes, Vanderbuilt baseball has been champions of the SEC 10 times.  Should they be relegated just because their football team sucks?

Well if the baseball team gets money from the earnings of the football team then maybe yes

[cgeldmacher]

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Well if the baseball team gets money from the earnings of the football team then maybe yes

They'll get much less money if they get relegated.  This idea, while interesting, would result in much more money being forced toward football than before.  Right now, Vanderbilt probably puts a decent amout of money into its very successful baseball program.  However, if giving baseball money that could be going to football might get them relegated, their baseball program will suffer and football will be elevated even more above the already too high pedestal it is on.

[Lord Elrond]

6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Well if the baseball team gets money from the earnings of the football team then maybe yes

Another example, say Rutgers, in the B1G Ten, gets relegated because its football team stinks. Do they stay in the B1G Ten in every other sport? I can just see the AD when being told that all the revenue from football goes away, but he’s still expected to pay all the travel costs for every other team they have to go play games in conference to Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, and coming soon Los Angeles.

The only way I think this works is if there is one structure of leagues for relegation in football, a separate one for men’s basketball, and a third (probably non-relegating, based on reduced travel costs), for every other sport

[TheA_Bomb]

I didn't think about how it would effect all sports. It's interesting but gets real complicated real fast.  Perhaps you could exist in multiple conferences. They'd just need to develop a method for determining how to spilt revenues. 

Baseball could be top tier but volleyball is relegated.  The conferences involved could determine credits based on sports/ conferences and distribute.