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Analysis of our New Guys


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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

he's got to be able to guard someone.   gives up more than he scores, he is not useful.. 

Agreed, but there are ways to “hide” players for small spurts. Ford likes using the trapping 1-3-1 sporadically. I could see plugging in someone like Lorentsson if his shooting is as good as Ford claims.

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We always seem to point out when a reputed good shooter is talked about defense needs to shine or said shooter will be riding the pine. Has this ever been an issue? Only 3 guys I can think of that has been called lights out shooter in TF days, S2 Hen???..z, Gibby and this new guy and maybe even the 1 shot Iceman but who else? Gibby in 10 games proved deserving of the praise for shooting and appeared to have a good approach on D.

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16 minutes ago, almaman said:

We always seem to point out when a reputed good shooter is talked about defense needs to shine or said shooter will be riding the pine. Has this ever been an issue? Only 3 guys I can think of that has been called lights out shooter in TF days, S2 Hen???..z, Gibby and this new guy and maybe even the 1 shot Iceman but who else? Gibby in 10 games proved deserving of the praise for shooting and appeared to have a good approach on D.

I have no doubt that Lorentsson could get significant minutes on a typical Billiken squad.  The issue is he is competing for minutes on the most loaded Billiken squad many of us have ever seen. You have to come up with a justification to take minutes away from Jimerson, Thatch and Hargrove.  And we haven't even talked about Strickland yet, who can defend multiple positions. 

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4 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes. Thanks the video.  
And Yes, Andre needs more strength and improved dribbling- but he can really shoot it and he is 6’8”!!  
Go ahead Duquesne, Davidson... Pack the lane again this year and dare Andre, Gibson, Javonte and Yuri to shoot from the outside!  Double team French and give up the 3 pointer.  It’s the Billikens, right?

And put your 6’ or 6’2” guard on Andre and let’s see if Andre can post him up. 

Or just shoot over him.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

he's got to be able to guard someone.   gives up more than he scores, he is not useful.. 

Jalen Johnson disease

 

I'm certainly not ready to write the kid off after a few clips of him being lazy on D. Ford's been able to turn non-defenders into high energy guys on D. It's been contagious - have to think this kid will catch the bug

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49 minutes ago, almaman said:

We always seem to point out when a reputed good shooter is talked about defense needs to shine or said shooter will be riding the pine. Has this ever been an issue? Only 3 guys I can think of that has been called lights out shooter in TF days, S2 Hen???..z, Gibby and this new guy and maybe even the 1 shot Iceman but who else? Gibby in 10 games proved deserving of the praise for shooting and appeared to have a good approach on D.

You beat me to making the same comment.  We were saying the same things about Jimerson before last season.  Then we were all pleasantly surprised when his defense was better than expected (which I attribute to our coaches and practice atmosphere more so than we all missed something).  Add to this that AL seems to be very athletic for a perimeter big, see his dunk video.  If he is a bit more athletic than the normal 6'8" euro big, and he gets to practice against our guys and get coached by our coaches, I'm confident that he will defend just fine.

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1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

Jalen Johnson disease

 

I'm certainly not ready to write the kid off after a few clips of him being lazy on D. Ford's been able to turn non-defenders into high energy guys on D. It's been contagious - have to think this kid will catch the bug

who are you describing with "able to turn non-defenders into high energy guys on D"?  

 

thanks i will hang up and listen.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

who are you describing with "able to turn non-defenders into high energy guys on D"?  

 

thanks i will hang up and listen.

 

 

Perkins and Isabell come to mind initially. Although Isabell only figured it out in mid-March. Hargrove had to take a big step defensively as well - but his bad D wasn't for lack of trying. Collins took a big step from November to March as well.

 

 

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i guess i have issues in the way you wrote the statement.   at best i would say perkins, isabell and hargrove improved on defense.   but i certainly wouldnt classify any of them into the upper level of billiken defenders.  just my opinion.   

the best example of a billiken that went from ole defense to a true high energy good defender during his time at slu was mccall back in the rickma days. 

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Correct me if I am wrong but is it normal for foreign players to not have the defensive intensity that USA players tend to have?  The question I have is - can he not play defense or is it he is just in a system that does not require it?

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10 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Correct me if I am wrong but is it normal for foreign players to not have the defensive intensity that USA players tend to have?  The question I have is - can he not play defense or is it he is just in a system that does not require it?

I think it's certainly normal for European players to have come from a less intense/physical defensive background. And to be fair, basically every high school player has to step up his level of defensive intensity when the start college. For some players like Yuri, it is pretty easy. 

My initial point was that Lorentsson appears gifted enough offensively to play on that side of the ball right away. We'll have to wait and see how long the defensive acclimation process takes before we know how much he contributes as a freshman.  

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3 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Agreed, but there are ways to “hide” players for small spurts. Ford likes using the trapping 1-3-1 sporadically. I could see plugging in someone like Lorentsson if his shooting is as good as Ford claims.

No chance, you’d have to be a generational scorer for Ford to adjust like that for you. 

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Weaver, Collins, Perkins, Hargrove, Bell and Jimerson all got abused early in the season on both dribble drives, back door cuts, and threes off dribble drives. Ford had to call off pressing because the defense was so abominable.

We were so bad, at times, that we had teams in the 300s rpi, and Maryville, going into halftime neck and neck with us.

It was only after the new kids on the block learned that you had to keep a shoulder on the driver, and you had to track a shooter at the 3 pt line, and you had to lead a cutter/driver into help, and that help had to come to a certain point but no further, and how to flash and switch effectively, that we turned into a tough defensive team.

At different times early in the season, we had six different players playing ole defense, and it was so obvious that French and Goodwin looked like bad defenders.

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1 minute ago, Sheltiedave said:

Weaver, Collins, Perkins, Hargrove, Bell and Jimerson all got abused early in the season on both dribble drives, back foot cuts, and threes off dribble drives. Ford had to call off pressing because the defense was so abominable.

We were so bad, at times, that we had teams in the 300s rpi, and Maryville, going into halftime neck and neck with us.

It was only after the new kids on the block learned that you had to keep a shoulder on the driver, and you had to track a shooter at the 3 pt line, and you had to lead a cutter/driver into help, and that help had to come to a certain point but no further, and how to flash and switch effectively, that we turned into a tough defensive team.

At different times early in the season, we had six different players playing ole defense, and it was so obvious that French and Goodwin looked like bad defenders.

Teams nationwide are going to have a hell of a time getting freshmen up to speed and I don't see many Freshmen contributing out of anything other than necessity/or generational talent for teams this season.

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1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

No chance, you’d have to be a generational scorer for Ford to adjust like that for you. 

I'm not saying he would change defenses to accommodate one player (although it happens). But there are ways to "hide" guys in defensive schemes we already use. 

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i guess i have issues in the way you wrote the statement.   at best i would say perkins, isabell and hargrove improved on defense.   but i certainly wouldnt classify any of them into the upper level of billiken defenders.  just my opinion.   

the best example of a billiken that went from ole defense to a true high energy good defender during his time at slu was mccall back in the rickma days. 

I didn’t say anything about being a great defender. I’m saying Ford gets the effort and intensity out of guys on defense. Which is a lot more than half the battle.

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1 hour ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I'm not saying he would change defenses to accommodate one player (although it happens). But there are ways to "hide" guys in defensive schemes we already use. 

But he’s not going to use them to hide guys, he’s going to use them because they’ll stop a teams offense.

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