Injunction, now!!

[cgeldmacher]

I would like to see Rosenblum appeal this decision in court after the Title IX process has concluded.  In the meantime, I truly hope he heads over to the courthouse, finds a judge who is a friend of Billiken athletics, and gets an injunction that states that the punishment handed out cannot begin until all possible court appeals have been exhausted.

[Sheltiedave]

This.

[cgeldmacher]

Not true.  Read this article.  The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit agreed with a lower court judge who overturned a University of Cincinnati Title IX decision which gave a male student a one year suspension.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/26/us-appeals-court-finds-student-accused-sexual-assault-was-denied-due-process

It appears that the suspension was handed down  in early 2016.  The 6th Circuit appellate court overturned it in September of 2017.  I can only assume that there was an injunction in that case saying that the student's suspension was not to be enforced until after the appeals.  If not, the appeal was too late.

The players in our case should be allowed to play until the federal appeal filed by Rosenblum is exhausted.

 

[cgeldmacher]

By the way, I was wrong in my first post.  The appeal would have to be in Federal Court, since Title IX is federal law.

[cgeldmacher]

Does no one care that our players may be able to continue to play during a federal appeal filed by Rosenblum?  Or are we just in full out lamenting mode?  This is appealable in federal court.

[gobillsgo]

29 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Does no one care that our players may be able to continue to play during a federal appeal filed by Rosenblum?  Or are we just in full out lamenting mode?  This is appealable in federal court.

They haven’t been able to play, other than the one who has obviously played. What makes you think they could play during a federal appeal?

[Billboy1]

4 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

They haven’t been able to play, other than the one who has obviously played. What makes you think they could play during a federal appeal?

Because the injunction would stipulate they could play.

[cgeldmacher]

If Rosenblum got an injunction allowing them to play while the appeal was happening.  It happens all the time.  All you need to show is some chance of success on appeal and that the punishment would result in irreparable harm to the players.

[gobillsgo]

7 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

If Rosenblum got an injunction allowing them to play while the appeal was happening.  It happens all the time.  All you need to show is some chance of success on appeal and that the punishment would result in irreparable harm to the players.

I understand that injunctions happen.  Seems unlikely in this case is all I’m saying. I’d love to be wrong. 

[brianstl]

My guess is the court wouldn’t consider an injunction until the appeal process at SLU has played out.

[BillsBeliever!!!]

17 minutes ago, brianstl said:

My guess is the court wouldn’t consider an injunction until the appeal process at SLU has played out.

Another reason why this has taken so long?

[RiseAndGrind]

24 minutes ago, brianstl said:

My guess is the court wouldn’t consider an injunction until the appeal process at SLU has played out.

Basic admin law requires you exhaust all administrative remedies first. Have no idea how that applies to this process 

[Sheltiedave]

That appellate decision puts a bizarre spin on this case, as we now have a SLU student court that must follow federal criminal law, including the right to confront(cross examine) the accuser(s).

Two of the three accusers have recanted, and will not testify. Do the players who hooked up with them get a free pass, or did the T9 process bring collective charges against all four, and what might the charges be?

Even with a cut and dried example like the cited case, the federal appeal took over 1.5 years to rule.

I would expect that Pestello and the Board would want to slide Dr. Wolff to serve as a reviewing officer for the appeal. Why have an eminent judge and jurist, retired Dean of the law school and former state Supreme Court Justice around, but not use him in this most complex of cases?

Looking at the T9 school coordinators that Kratky’s office has trained, if they are the appeal pool from which the three are selected, then the appeal will go nowhere.

Thanks for correcting me, C. I had not heard of the successful federal appeal.

[TheOne]

3 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Not true.  Read this article.  The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit agreed with a lower court judge who overturned a University of Cincinnati Title IX decision which gave a male student a one year suspension.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/26/us-appeals-court-finds-student-accused-sexual-assault-was-denied-due-process

It appears that the suspension was handed down  in early 2016.  The 6th Circuit appellate court overturned it in September of 2017.  I can only assume that there was an injunction in that case saying that the student's suspension was not to be enforced until after the appeals.  If not, the appeal was too late.

The players in our case should be allowed to play until the federal appeal filed by Rosenblum is exhausted.

 

This is an incredible find.  I hope somebody - lawyer, media person, SLU admin - is on here and finds this.  THIS could save our players.

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

That appellate decision puts a bizarre spin on this case, as we now have a SLU student court that must follow federal criminal law, including the right to confront(cross examine) the accuser(s).

Two of the three accusers have recanted, and will not testify. Do the players who hooked up with them get a free pass, or did the T9 process bring collective charges against all four, and what might the charges be?

Even with a cut and dried example like the cited case, the federal appeal took over 1.5 years to rule.

I would expect that Pestello and the Board would want to slide Dr. Wulff to serve as a reviewing officer for the appeal. Why have an eminent judge and jurist, Dean of the law school and former state Supreme Court Justice around, but not use him in this most complex of cases?

Looking at the T9 school coordinators that Kratky’s office has trained, if they are the appeal pool from which the three are selected, then the appeal will go nowhere.

Thanks for correcting me, C. I had not heard of the successful federal appeal.

Regarding what I've highlighted in bold, they may not be able to do that because the law requires them to use only officers who've been trained in Title IX.  Since that law pertains to gender equity, who do you think is going to volunteer to go through the training process?  The office is staffed by nearly all women.  What side of the issue do you think they're gonna fall on?  The current permutation of the law, after the Dear Colleague Letter, has created this monster.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

3 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Does no one care that our players may be able to continue to play during a federal appeal filed by Rosenblum?  Or are we just in full out lamenting mode?  This is appealable in federal court.

I like it.

[Compton]

4 hours ago, TheOne said:

This is an incredible find.  I hope somebody - lawyer, media person, SLU admin - is on here and finds this.  THIS could save our players.

Unfortunately, even if the underlying facts are similar, an appellate court decision in the Sixth Circuit doesn't carry much weigh in the Eighth Circuit (where St. Louis is). 

[cgeldmacher]

9 hours ago, Compton said:

Unfortunately, even if the underlying facts are similar, an appellate court decision in the Sixth Circuit doesn't carry much weigh in the Eighth Circuit (where St. Louis is). 

The decision doesn't carry any precedential weight, but the idea that these Title IX decisions can be appealed is procedural.  Although each circuit has its own rules, concepts such as what is appealable and what is not should be consistent across circuits.

[moytoy12]

13 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Regarding what I've highlighted in bold, they may not be able to do that because the law requires them to use only officers who've been trained in Title IX.  Since that law pertains to gender equity, who do you think is going to volunteer to go through the training process?  The office is staffed by nearly all women.  What side of the issue do you think they're gonna fall on?  The current permutation of the law, after the Dear Colleague Letter, has created this monster.

To add a little more, the SLU policy states that the appeals panel will consist of "faculty and staff" who have received Title IX training.  Theoretically, the scope of possible members for the appeals panel extends beyond just the Title IX staff. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

15 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

To add a little more, the SLU policy states that the appeals panel will consist of "faculty and staff" who have received Title IX training.  Theoretically, the scope of possible members for the appeals panel extends beyond just the Title IX staff. 

I didn't mean to imply that the appeals panel would comprise only members of the Title 9 office.

[TJHawk]

Question? Do the players really want to be saved?  Let's face it they can transfer to another school and play.  While this gets tried in a court of law and they get paid millions of dollars in a law suit.  Make no mistake about this, SLU will be paying these kids millions.  

[TRN]

53 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

To add a little more, the SLU policy states that the appeals panel will consist of "faculty and staff" who have received Title IX training.  Theoretically, the scope of possible members for the appeals panel extends beyond just the Title IX staff. 

SluSignGuy and DoctorB, do you have the Title IX training? 

[Billiken Rich]

44 minutes ago, TRN said:

SluSignGuy and DoctorB, do you have the Title IX training? 

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cgeldmacher]

Again, I'm talking about the federal court issuing an injunction against SLU, on a motion made by Rosenblum, that states that SLU cannot enforce its suspensions until a federal appeal of this matter plays out.  I'm not referring to the Title IX appeals process that is currently occurring.  Someone above referenced that an injunction would have to wait until SLU's Title IX appeals process played out, and I agree with that.  You have to exhaust all administrative remedies before filing a federal appeal and before requesting an injunction.  However, if the judge thinks that an injunction is warranted, they typically rule on it the same day or the next day from when it is filed.

My point here is that if SLU botched the process, the federal court can tell SLU it cannot punish the players until their appeal in federal court is complete.  Therefore, if the players and Rosenblum get an injunction, it may allow Goodwin to continue to play for possibly another season while the federal appeal plays out.  The appeal in the case of the kid from Cincinnati, referenced in the article above, took over a year.  Ford and the Athletic Dept. can tell Goodwin that they will give him the ability to transfer if the suspension is eventually upheld, but only if he continues to play in the meantime.  I think that he may be comfortable with that arrangement, but only if the injunction happens.

[moytoy12]

I’m not a litigator, so I don’t have a lot of useful knowledge on the viability of an injunction.  My concern is that Rosenblum, while a celebrated crim defense attorney, does not seem like the right attorney to pursue this possible route.