Voters could bring the MLS to St. Louis April 4th

[cheeseman]

7 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Isn't the Loop located in U City?, what does this have to do with St. Louis City funding?

Yes part of it is - it starts or ends depending how you look at it at the History Museum

[brianstl]

14 minutes ago, Old guy said:

OK guys let's look at the actual numbers from St. Louis City. The total number of people that actually voted was highest in the vote for the St. Louis School Board, about 100,000 votes for this purpose, more than the total number of votes for the mayor's race. The total number of votes for prop 1 was about 63,000, about 35,000 yes and 28,000 no (again the bulk of this apparently earmarked for Metrolink). The total number of votes for prop 2 was about 58,000, about 30,600 no, and 27,400 yes. This allows you to estimate what the residents of the city of St. Louis consider to be important enough for them to get them to vote, in order of importance: School board, Mayor election, Prop 1 (Metrolink), and Prop 2 (MLS stadium). The  numbers show literally that what appears to be the vast majority of St. Louis citizens do not care to vote, and that there are issues that are much more important to them than the MLS stadium. 

 Who is out of touch now?

 

This isn't correct.  You voted for three candidates in the School Board race.  That means you divide the number by three to get the total amount of ballots cast in the School Board race.

 

[Old guy]

6 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Don't you get to vote for multiple members of the school board? Hence 100,000 votes for this purpose is not the equivalent of 100,000 people voting for school board and only 60,000 voting on the soccer stadium.

In Kirkwood, I got 3 votes for the school board so if that is the right number it means ~33k people cared about the school board and 60k voted for the soccer.

I do not know how many votes the voters got for members of the School Board but yes, you are correct there. So, let's rearrange the priorities, Mayor, Prop 1, Prop 2, and School Board. This is a shame really, citizens of the St. Louis city should be more concerned about the schools their children attend than soccer. At any rate only a minute number of the voters in St. Louis felt there was any need for them to go vote. That means they choose to stay out of the political process, they just do not care. Do you agree?

[Old guy]

4 minutes ago, brianstl said:

This isn't correct.  You voted for three candidates in the School Board race.  That means you divide the number by three to get the total amount of ballots cast in the School Board race.

 

Already agreed, my bad

[brianstl]

5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I do not know how many votes the voters got for members of the School Board but yes, you are correct there. So, let's rearrange the priorities, Mayor, Prop 1, Prop 2, and School Board. This is a shame really, citizens of the St. Louis city should be more concerned about the schools their children attend than soccer. At any rate only a minute number of the voters in St. Louis felt there was any need for them to go vote. That means they choose to stay out of the political process, they just do not care. Do you agree?

The School Board in the City has zero control of the education of children.  The city schools have been run by a special administrative board for a decade now and that will continue until at least 2019.  Many people don't bother to vote in the school board election because they realize it is nothing more than people trying to put an elective position on their resume.  The person elected has zero power to do anything.

[wgstl]

One part that sucks about this, it would have really helped the stretch of Olive by the Fetz that they are currently working on developing. 

[kshoe]

27 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I do not know how many votes the voters got for members of the School Board but yes, you are correct there. So, let's rearrange the priorities, Mayor, Prop 1, Prop 2, and School Board. This is a shame really, citizens of the St. Louis city should be more concerned about the schools their children attend than soccer. At any rate only a minute number of the voters in St. Louis felt there was any need for them to go vote. That means they choose to stay out of the political process, they just do not care. Do you agree?

I can care about the schools without having an opinion on whether "Joe Smith" or "Lisa Adams" is better for the school board. Again, I voted in Kirkwood, but I didn't vote for any of the school board because I don't know who they are. It's the same thing with judges during the general election. If I don't know who they are I should abstain. Just because somebody voted for Prop 1 and Prop 2 but not the school board doesn't mean they don't care about the schools.

[RiseAndGrind]

59 minutes ago, brianstl said:

It should be considered an infrastructure subsidy just like roads, bridges and sewers that benefit the whole community.  Also, the trains are pretty full headed through the central corridor during the morning and evening rush. Which makes sense since there is population density there.

Brian pretty much nailed this one. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, kshoe said:

Don't you get to vote for multiple members of the school board? Hence 100,000 votes for this purpose is not the equivalent of 100,000 people voting for school board and only 60,000 voting on the soccer stadium.

In Kirkwood, I got 3 votes for the school board so if that is the right number it means ~33k people cared about the school board and 60k voted for the soccer.

Again you are correct, how about the thousands upon thousands of registered voters in St. Louis that just did not vote at all, do you have any opinions about them? Why don't they vote?

[JMM28]

42 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I can care about the schools without having an opinion on whether "Joe Smith" or "Lisa Adams" is better for the school board. Again, I voted in Kirkwood, but I didn't vote for any of the school board because I don't know who they are. It's the same thing with judges during the general election. If I don't know who they are I should abstain. Just because somebody voted for Prop 1 and Prop 2 but not the school board doesn't mean they don't care about the schools.

Also, the "undervote" is used by political types to judge the distaste for the candidates and/or areas ripe to flip from one person to another. I never cast a vote for someone running unopposed. I also don't vote for a race where the candidates are all unappealing. 

[Box and Won]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Isn't the Loop located in U City?

It extends past Skinker and into St. Louis.

[Old guy]

So, this means St. Louis is financing the trolley as well?

[Glorydays2013]

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2017/03/30/st-louis-stadium-ownership-group-has-big-money-and-no-city-residency

So none of the people who would finance the stadium would even pay taxes in the city. Maybe this was good for the city

[Box and Won]

2 minutes ago, Old guy said:

So, this means St. Louis is financing the trolley as well?

I believe there is some TIF money involved, along with tax credits and a CID that Loop property owners contribute to.  Most of the funding is from federal sources.

[BillsCPA]

So now we get the tax and no team.What a massive win......

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

I do not know how many votes the voters got for members of the School Board but yes, you are correct there. So, let's rearrange the priorities, Mayor, Prop 1, Prop 2, and School Board. This is a shame really, citizens of the St. Louis city should be more concerned about the schools their children attend than soccer. At any rate only a minute number of the voters in St. Louis felt there was any need for them to go vote. That means they choose to stay out of the political process, they just do not care. Do you agree?

Out late last night partying with your friends on the defeat of the soccer stadium? You are off your game today.

Here are the total votes.  Prop 1, 58,057, Prop 2 57,966, Mayor 57,566

There is zero significant difference in these totals, especially when you take into consideration screwed up ballots, etc.  There is no order here on these three issues.

There were 106,022 total votes for the school board.  If you divide by 3, you get 35,340 votes.  However, many will vote for only 1 or 2 candidates, so there is no way of knowing how many people actually voted for the school board.  [And sure, some would not vote as they have no children in school or didn't know any candidates.]  Unless you are privy to precise information on ballots cast, you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I do agree that school issues are important.  But if you have no knowledge of the SB candidates and what they stand for, is it more responsible to vote (based on what - alphabetical order, funny names, male or female) or is it more responsible not to vote? 

[brianstl]

15 minutes ago, BillsCPA said:

So now we get the tax and no team.What a massive win......

No the use tax was only going to be increased if both Prop 1 and Prop 2 passed.  Money from the Prop 1 sales tax increase was never going to a stadium.  That money is earmarked for Metrolink (60%), neighborhood revitalization (10%), public safety (10%), infrastructure (10%) and workforce development (10%).  

[HoosierPal]

4 minutes ago, brianstl said:

No the use tax was only going to be increased if both Prop 1 and Prop 2 passed.  Money from the Prop 1 sales tax increase was never going to a stadium.  That money is earmarked for Metrolink (60%), neighborhood revitalization (10%), public safety (10%), infrastructure (10%) and workforce development (10%).  

The business use tax was also approved via Prop 1.  Instead of going into the soccer stadium, it reportedly will be going into the General Coffers, whatever that is.

[brianstl]

Just now, HoosierPal said:

The business use tax was also approved via Prop 1.  Instead of going into the soccer stadium, it reportedly will be going into the General Coffers, whatever that is.

PROPOSITION 1

(Proposed by Ordinance)

Shall the City of St. Louis impose a sales tax at a rate of one half of one percent for economic development purposes including (1) North/South Metrolink, (2) neighborhood revitalization, (3) workforce development; (4) public safety, and (5) to upgrade the city's infrastructure, with annual public audits?

[SShoe]

5 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

The business use tax was also approved via Prop 1.  Instead of going into the soccer stadium, it reportedly will be going into the General Coffers, whatever that is.

Current biz use taxes go to affordable housing, public safety, and building demolition costs. 

[HoosierPal]

11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

PROPOSITION 1

(Proposed by Ordinance)

Shall the City of St. Louis impose a sales tax at a rate of one half of one percent for economic development purposes including (1) North/South Metrolink, (2) neighborhood revitalization, (3) workforce development; (4) public safety, and (5) to upgrade the city's infrastructure, with annual public audits?

ST. LOUIS • City voters rejected funding for a Major League Soccer stadium on Tuesday but approved a companion ballot measure imposing a half-cent sales tax increase for expanding MetroLink.

The public financing plan for the soccer stadium lost by 3,000 votes, with 47 percent of voters supporting it and 53 percent opposed in final but unofficial results. About 60 percent of voters approved the MetroLink sales tax increase.

Proposition 1 will increase the city sales tax by half a cent on every dollar and put about $12 million a year toward planning and engineering for an 8-mile north-south MetroLink expansion. Proposition 2 would have provided funding toward construction of a 22,000-seat soccer stadium downtown.

Both propositions were needed to pass in order to fund the stadium. The sales tax increase in Prop 1 will generate a corresponding increase in the city's business use tax, expected to be about $4 million a year.

What will be done with that new revenue has yet to be decided, though most business use tax revenue goes toward affordable housing, public safety and building demolitions.

Mayor-elect Lyda Krewson said “there's not a plan in place at this time” for that new money.

 

[Old guy]

Well HoosierPal, I understand that you are disappointed with the result of the vote and I am not. That said, there was no reason to party about the defeat of this issue. So let's come to brass tacks buddy. The latest figures available from the census about St. Louis City (2015) estimate a population of 315,685 people, 21% of which were below 18 years of age. That leaves a population of 249,391 people that could be registered to vote (maybe less than that since the wonderful city has been losing population for a very long time). If 58,000 voted, what happened to the remaining 183,391 people who could conceivably be registered to vote. Does the fact that they did not desire to vote indicate that they supported the stadium silently, you really think so? Just smile HoosierPal, you lost.

[Zink]

3 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Well HoosierPal, I understand that you are disappointed with the result of the vote and I am not. That said, there was no reason to party about the defeat of this issue. So let's come to brass tacks buddy. The latest figures available from the census about St. Louis City (2015) estimate a population of 315,685 people, 21% of which were below 18 years of age. That leaves a population of 249,391 people that could be registered to vote (maybe less than that since the wonderful city has been losing population for a very long time). If 58,000 voted, what happened to the remaining 183,391 people who could conceivably be registered to vote. Does the fact that they did not desire to vote indicate that they supported the stadium silently, you really think so? Just smile HoosierPal, you lost.

"Voter turnout was twice as high for this city general election than four years ago, the last time the mayor's race was on the ballot. Voter turnout was 30 percent, or about 59,000 voters, while in 2013 turnout was 12.5 percent of voters."

- from the Post-Dispatch

 

St. Louis says "no thanks" to both soccer and democracy.

[bonwich]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

 That was a huge waste of tax payers' money that was nothing more than Peacock's effort to set himself and his Vitaligent/Jambajuice business partners Edgerly and Matlock up to get public financing for a soccer stadium.  

Hold on there, pardner. Don't you be disrespectin' the great Scott Highmark on this board.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Out late last night partying with your friends on the defeat of the soccer stadium? You are off your game today.

Here are the total votes.  Prop 1, 58,057, Prop 2 57,966, Mayor 57,566

There is zero significant difference in these totals, especially when you take into consideration screwed up ballots, etc.  There is no order here on these three issues.

There were 106,022 total votes for the school board.  If you divide by 3, you get 35,340 votes.  However, many will vote for only 1 or 2 candidates, so there is no way of knowing how many people actually voted for the school board.  [And sure, some would not vote as they have no children in school or didn't know any candidates.]  Unless you are privy to precise information on ballots cast, you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I do agree that school issues are important.  But if you have no knowledge of the SB candidates and what they stand for, is it more responsible to vote (based on what - alphabetical order, funny names, male or female) or is it more responsible not to vote?