women's thread

[White Pelican]

56 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

If SLU fails to win the A10 tourney and misses the NCAA again, does it become a problem that Stone has had the A10 POY two years in a row but has been unable to capitalize on that? 

I understand where that program has come from and I think she has done a really nice job here. But two straight years of terribly soft scheduling has been quite the error for her. 

Of course winning the A10 tournament would put an end to that line of discussion, although the scheduling really should be much stronger than 254 SOS. 

Are you fuoking serious? You think she's coaching UConn here? How many successful women's coaches have worked here? I'm thinking ONE, the one that's here now. You wanna show her the door??

To answer your question, no, it does not become a problem.

I agree with Skip up above. They are DAMNED lucky to have her.

[slu72 fan]

14 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

Are you fuoking serious? You think she's coaching UConn here? How many successful women's coaches have worked here? I'm thinking ONE, the one that's here now. You wanna show her the door??

To answer your question, no, it does not become a problem.

I agree with Skip up above. They are DAMNED lucky to have her.

+1000

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, White Pelican said:

Are you fuoking serious? You think she's coaching UConn here? How many successful women's coaches have worked here? I'm thinking ONE, the one that's here now. You wanna show her the door??

To answer your question, no, it does not become a problem.

I agree with Skip up above. They are DAMNED lucky to have her.

I never said I wanted to show her the door. Jesus Francis, quite the overreaction. I said is it a problem if she doesn't make the tournament this year because she has compiled a TERRIBLE schedule two years in a row. I think - if they don't win the A10 tourney - that she fuoked away a really great opportunity the last two years to put the program on the map because of that schedule. Being top of the conference is great, but the NCAA tourney is the point of the exercise. 

[billikenfan05]

I'm gonna back JMM on this one. She has  to be called out. If they miss the NCAA tournament that'll be two years in a row poor scheduling may cost them At Large bids

[Cowboy]

10 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I'm gonna back JMM on this one. She has  to be called out. If they miss the NCAA tournament that'll be two years in a row poor scheduling may cost them At Large bids

-poor scheduling is the culprit? not losing to teams on the schedule? rpi #210 Ind St? rpi #150 tulsa? rpi #137 Duquesne? not being able to beat Dayton, yet? I'll submit that the schedule walked a fine line but they crossed it 3 times with those over 125 rpi losses

[hsmith19]

The issue is that the poor schedule leaves no room for error. If the SOS was better they might have been able to overcome a bad loss or two.

[JMM28]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-poor scheduling is the culprit? not losing to teams on the schedule? rpi #210 Ind St? rpi #150 tulsa? rpi #137 Duquesne? not being able to beat Dayton, yet? I'll submit that the schedule walked a fine line but they crossed it 3 times with those over 125 rpi losses

The schedule is ranked 254. That's not just bad, it's terrible. The non conference slate wasn't even within a margin of error of being bad. A team with NCAA aspirations should have a top 100 schedule and maybe it falls to 150-200 range in a worst-case kind of way. 

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, hsmith19 said:

The issue is that the poor schedule leaves no room for error. If the SOS was better they might have been able to overcome a bad loss or two.

Indeed

[doowop]

The schedule has GOT to get stronger or it won't make a difference how good her team is.  I was really disappointed when I saw the schedule before the season started.  Also, she needs to start recruiting quicker, more athletic players to compete with teams like Dayton.  I know they beat MU but, they need to play other teams of that quality in their OOC schedule.  It will pay off at NCAA Tournament time.

[3star_recruit]

Now that Stone has put the program on the map locally, maybe the local girls we've been losing to middle of the pack schools out of state will consider SLU. Webster Groves has a talented guard in the 2018 class named Jaidah Stewart that could upgrade the team's athleticism.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/athlete_of_the_week/prep-athlete-of-the-week-jaidah-stewart-webster-groves-/article_9910461c-bcdb-11e6-9e44-7ba76ab97e3e.html

[cheeseman]

On 2/5/2017 at 10:10 PM, Cowboy said:

 

 

Sorry Cowboy this post has nothing to do with you but the computer gremlins are at it again.

 

This OCC schedule discussion is one that always causes me to think about the value of it or not.  If you are UConn then go ahead and schedule a tough OCC - it won't matter if you do or not.  If you are a SLU then the question is would your record be as good if you scheduled tougher OCC teams or would you possibly have another 4-5 losses that would then remove you from an at large berth anyway?  Are you damned if you do and damned if you don't?  I get the idea that a stronger OCC can make you better for the conference run but there is no real assurance that that will happen either.  I am not an expert on WBB so I ask the question - is this year's OCC better than last year?  If so is it possible that Stone is taking a slowly controlled approach to raising the level of difficulty? Is Stone having the same problem as the MBB has in trying to schedule tougher OCC teams - nobody wants to play us?  Like I said, a tougher OCC is a double edged sword - ultimately your win/loss record will enter into the at large discussion.  

[slufan13]

Stone has turned the program around and I doubt that SLU can do better than her. But that doesn't make her exempt from criticism. The schedule is bad and team has lost some big games this season. They will hopefully get a 3rd shot at Dayton this weekend. Hard to beat a team 3 times in a season so there is still time to make a run to the tourney.

[slufanskip]

12 hours ago, hsmith19 said:

The issue is that the poor schedule leaves no room for error. If the SOS was better they might have been able to overcome a bad loss or two.

Obviously a better schedule would help and it needs to be improved going forward. However, I'd bet if you took away those 3 bad losses listed above and got a win against Dayton we'd probably be an at large bid with a decent tourney showing. I'm not saying there isn't area's to improve but the gist of the post was as I understood it was does it become a problem as in do we start to question whether she's the right coach for the program. That seems crazy to me at this point. Last year SLU won their first postseason games in the history of the program.

[slufan13]

The women's RPI is 104th. I would think they needed a drastically different schedule to be considered for an at large. Last year their RPI was 54 and they got a 3 seed in the WNIT.

[kwyjibo]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

This OCC schedule discussion is one that always causes me to think about the value of it or not.  If you are UConn then go ahead and schedule a tough OCC - it won't matter if you do or not.  If you are a SLU then the question is would your record be as good if you scheduled tougher OCC teams or would you possibly have another 4-5 losses that would then remove you from an at large berth anyway?  Are you damned if you do and damned if you don't?  I get the idea that a stronger OCC can make you better for the conference run but there is no real assurance that that will happen either.  I am not an expert on WBB so I ask the question - is this year's OCC better than last year?  If so is it possible that Stone is taking a slowly controlled approach to raising the level of difficulty? Is Stone having the same problem as the MBB has in trying to schedule tougher OCC teams - nobody wants to play us?  Like I said, a tougher OCC is a double edged sword - ultimately your win/loss record will enter into the at large discussion.  

You do not seem to know how strength of schedule works (for the RPI, SOS is 75% of the calculation so it is most important there).   With a harder schedule you can benefit whether you win or lose.  It is not "double-edged"; it is win if you win and win if you lose (this is more often true with road games where just playing a decent team on the road is win-win).  The reverse is true for all the terrible 200+ teams SLU scheduled this year--it is lose if you lose and lose if you win.  Your ranking goes down just playing a bad team and you are penalized more if somehow you managed to lose.  If you play better teams you can additional bonuses if you win.

The problem with bad scheduling is that it is completely self-inflicted.  It may be hard to schedule a specific team or get the exact balance you want but when your schedule is one of weakest in the nation it is painfully easy to schedule harder (you do not need to schedule any big teams; I am sure you could schedule a least some of North Dakota, Drake, UW-Green Bay, South Dakota St., N. Illinois, Belmont etc.).  The only way to have a schedule that bad is to not care or be ignorant of its impact.

This is true in the men's world as well.  It is not hard to schedule harder if you want to (again it may be hard to schedule a specific team or date).

[RUBillsFan]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned, the travel budget may come into play for women's scheduling.  They probably schedule a lot of games (home and road) with regional teams regardless of how bad they are in order to keep the travel cheap.

[billikenfan05]

2 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

Something that I don't think has been mentioned, the travel budget may come into play for women's scheduling.  They probably schedule a lot of games (home and road) with regional teams regardless of how bad they are in order to keep the travel cheap.

This has no bearing.

[3star_recruit]

Why does it have no bearing? Women's college basketball loses a lot of money: http://www.swishappeal.com/2013/11/12/5090384/ncaa-womens-college-basketball-profits-donations

[cheeseman]

3 hours ago, kwyjibo said:

You do not seem to know how strength of schedule works (for the RPI, SOS is 75% of the calculation so it is most important there).   With a harder schedule you can benefit whether you win or lose.  It is not "double-edged"; it is win if you win and win if you lose (this is more often true with road games where just playing a decent team on the road is win-win).  The reverse is true for all the terrible 200+ teams SLU scheduled this year--it is lose if you lose and lose if you win.  Your ranking goes down just playing a bad team and you are penalized more if somehow you managed to lose.  If you play better teams you can additional bonuses if you win.

The problem with bad scheduling is that it is completely self-inflicted.  It may be hard to schedule a specific team or get the exact balance you want but when your schedule is one of weakest in the nation it is painfully easy to schedule harder (you do not need to schedule any big teams; I am sure you could schedule a least some of North Dakota, Drake, UW-Green Bay, South Dakota St., N. Illinois, Belmont etc.).  The only way to have a schedule that bad is to not care or be ignorant of its impact.

This is true in the men's world as well.  It is not hard to schedule harder if you want to (again it may be hard to schedule a specific team or date).

I understand what you are saying but if you are 22- 12 with a very good RPI will that get you an at large berth from a conference like the A10?  

[slufan13]

The women's team traveled for a 1 week stay in California in November for 2 road games. I tend to think the budget wasn't a major factor. It's just simply a bad schedule. It's not unreasonable to criticize the program. It is what it is. I hope they win the A10 tourney.

[kwyjibo]

13 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I understand what you are saying but if you are 22- 12 with a very good RPI will that get you an at large berth from a conference like the A10?  

Yes.  Absolute record is meaningless;  it is how you do against quality opponents.  Auburn has been barely .500 and gotten at-large bids the last few years (and at 17-13 this year probably will again).  St. Joe's had 12 losses a few years ago (men's) and got an at-large because of a difficult schedule.  But the more important point for women is the A10 is not a great conference (although has some good teams at the top) so you have no choice but to schedule tough in the non-conference if you have any desire for an at-large in the NCAA.  If you do not care about getting an at-large then go ahead and schedule how many empty calories you want.

[cgeldmacher]

Women's Non conference road game locations: Irvine, CA; Los Angeles, CA; Peoria, IL; Little Rock, AR; Cape Girardeau, MO; Tulsa, OK, and Nashville, TN.  The only games that could be considered "local" were Cape and Peoria.  The rest were legit trips.

Men's team non-con road games: Las Vegas, NV (2 tournament games- 1 trip); Wichita, KS; Carbondale, IL.  That's it.

The women's team did much more than the men's team on non-con travel.

I think Stone is a blessing for the program.  She has taken it to heights it has never seen.  She and her staff deserve a pass for any snafu this year on scheduling.   Frankly, she deserves about a five season pass at this point.  That being said, they do need to work on better scheduling for next year.  Clearly, the budget is there for travel.  They just need to take the money for the six non-con road games they took this year and do the same with better opponents next year.

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Women's Non conference road game locations: Irvine, CA; Los Angeles, CA; Peoria, IL; Little Rock, AR; Cape Girardeau, MO; Tulsa, OK, and Nashville, TN.  The only games that could be considered "local" were Cape and Peoria.  The rest were legit trips.

Men's team non-con road games: Las Vegas, NV (2 tournament games- 1 trip); Wichita, KS; Carbondale, IL.  That's it.

The women's team did much more than the men's team on non-con travel.

I think Stone is a blessing for the program.  She has taken it to heights it has never seen.  She and her staff deserve a pass for any snafu this year on scheduling.   Frankly, she deserves about a five season pass at this point.  That being said, they do need to work on better scheduling for next year.  Clearly, the budget is there for travel.  They just need to take the money for the six non-con road games they took this year and do the same with better opponents next year.

It wasn't a snafu...this is the second year in a row. She should be held accountable. I'm not saying she needs to be on even a warm seat but she should have to Answer questions...

[hsmith19]

27 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Women's Non conference road game locations: Irvine, CA; Los Angeles, CA; Peoria, IL; Little Rock, AR; Cape Girardeau, MO; Tulsa, OK, and Nashville, TN.  The only games that could be considered "local" were Cape and Peoria.  The rest were legit trips.

Little Rock, Tulsa and Nashville are road trips but they're in our general region. If they weren't scheduled because they're much closer to StL than the typical A10 opponent (creating non-conference regional "rivalries"), then playing them makes even less sense.

But yeah, the women's team went on the road a fair amount this year. It's just a shame it wasn't against better teams.

[slu72 fan]

1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

It wasn't a snafu...this is the second year in a row. She should be held accountable. I'm not saying she needs to be on even a warm seat but she should have to Answer questions...

She only answers to one person, and he just gave her a new contract. So, I guess he's OK with the progress her program is showing. 

Anyone who follows the program, all 50 of us, knows how far she has brought the team. I'm pretty sure not many want to play her, given the previously horrible history and the progress shown. 

By the way, the team was one point from winnings its second A-10 championship, something the program has never done previously. She recruits great students, who represent our University wonderfully, while winning more games than at any time in it's history. I hope she improves the schedule, but something's take time.