Frank C

[Billikenbooster]

talked to coach 20 min before his show started at 9a today and said that the recruitment of TL is now 'reopened'. Coach would not elaborate. We all know how close to the vest he is on recruitment details. Hopefully this is not a done deal for the UNLV Rebs and we will be able to defend our turf on a level ground.

mhg

[jjray]

>> recruitment of TL is now 'reopened'.<<

That seals it. We are screwed.

[billiken_roy]

i dont know anything of this sort, but knowing the high quality person that brad soderberg is, it is my guess that this whole scenario has truly sickened him. it wouldnt surprise me a bit that he would rather lose tommie liddell due to the street agent being involved than fight this out. the fact as billenbooster stated yesterday that brad let angres go to jersey instead of himself probably speaks volumes even though angres was the original recruiter on tommie.

i personally would like to fight this thing to the end and make enough noise that the ncaa has to make a solid ruling on street agents and aau coaches. let's see how it plays out, but i tend to agree with jjray, if we have been told to allow open recruiting of liddell, that isnt good. it would have been better that he was protected until september.

[jjray]

I assume Brad has release TL from his LOI. However, I would not rule out Brad filing a complaint with the NCAA against UNLV. In fact, I would expect it.

[NYBill]

You know what, Brad should just let this one go. We already have Lisch and should build on that by spending time on recruits that will show for us. I just don't think TL in Billiken blue is going to happen. I hate to say this, as it will come across as a slam on TL (which it is not intended to be - it's just the truth), but a guy who can't get the minimum score on the SAT does not have the analytical skills to make a decision when there are so many competing voices around. The very fact that years of SLU recruitment and a reaffirmation to SLU 10 days ago has already gone by the wayside after a 4 day camp is evidence of this.

If TL wanted to come to SLU he would realize that Brad should be out there recruiting other players to compliment TL and KL and DP instead of wasting time re-recruiting TL.

Good luck TL (actually, I don't really care how TL turns out so strike that), Brad please move on and focus on more productive recruits.

[BillikenButch]

If the young man does not want to come here, then we should let him go elsewhere. Our "rights" to his services are not guaranteed in the fall. If UNLV has tampered, and my guess is they have not or if they have it has been very minor, then they should be challenged.

If his decision is a mistake or not will be decided in time.

[slu72]

Agreed,Butch, we can't pass judgement on TL's decision. Let him go, however, don't understand what minor tampering is...is it like a minor pregnancy? UNLV either talked to him or they didn't. One thing in Stu's article was interesting; Lewis was quoted in a LV paper as saying something like "in conversations with them (UNLV people), TL liked what he heard." How can they be talking to TL if he's under an LOI? Of course, Lewis later retracted that statement. Probably after a desperate phone call from some UNLV AC who advised Ricky he had to deny any conversations between UNLV and TL ever took place. Looks like it's a done deal in any event. I'm moving on...not happy...but moving on.

[willie]

Let me take the other side of the coin. While I can see letting Tommy walk I think Brad should fight this as hard as he can. If we are going to become a top program we can't back away everytime we run into dirty recruiting . Tommie is a top recruit and Brad needs to go out and win the battle again. If UNLV did something wrong then he needs to report them to the NCAA. If Lewis is a scum he needs to dicredited locally. If we don't fight your asking for it to happen again next time we're after a top recruit.

[Sheltiedave]

Bill, give us a break on this!!!

At seventeen YOU did not have the analytical skills to fully comprehend when someone was selling you a bill of goods in some instances. Very few of us did!

You might be one of the lucky ones who never choked on a test, or failed at anything you ever attempted. I laugh at some of the whirlwind here. Tommie either goes to SLU or he doesn't.I personally feel he would be doing very well for himself here, but that is not saying he won't do well elsewhere, as long as he applies himself. His mistake, if he has done such, is to listen to the desires and sales pitch of an AAU coach over his parent's wishes. Angres went to talk to Tommie, while Brad (I"m sure) is talking to the parents. It certainly is not in the bag yet.

Tommie may not have excelled at taking the ACT, but if he makes it in the NBA for four seasons, he will make more than a certain person who scored a 32 on his ACT(cough cough.) Tommie's ability as a wage earner is not soley dependant on his analytical ability, unlike your demeaning assessment. Also remember that this forum is widely read by numerous outside interests. If our bball team plays the same way this board blows in the face of adversity, we would go 5 -25 every year.

[Billikenbooster]

I'm with you on this one, Willie. Fight til the end, demand equal respect by the bball community. You can't let some bully come and steal away your girlfriend without putting up a fight. Sure you may get some blood on your shirt, but your self respect, and the respect of your team will increase. They will know you did everything you could to make the team better.

TL will take the pressure off KL. He gives you two weapons on the floor in the back court. Add Dwayne Polk and you've got a real team.

We can't back down. Fight to the death!

mhg

[p diddy]

i don't know willie. i think brad should leave tommie alone altogether. they put in the time and effort to sign tommie in the first place when nobody else would touch him. no need to go down that road again since his recruiting is open again. we all know he's going to unlv. even if he doesn't, his open recruiting means that he's open to the highest bidder because a street agent is controlling the situation and dictating tommie's every move. if unlv doesn't get the final nod, watch what other programs get involved knowing a lowlife, scumball with his hand out is running TL's recruitment. and remember, his nephew might be part of the package as well. (btw, has bennie lewis III committed to UNLV yet. they got six scholarships to give).

and to go one step further, i don't know if slu should ever mess with recruiting in esl again, (with the exception of jalensdad's kid of course). what this situation shows that as long as ricky lewis is running around, esl kids are for sale. no need to wallow in that cesspool.

this is a tough and nasty business and that means you have to act accordingly. if tommie realizes that he is making a horrific mistake in putting his trust in a subhuman creature such as ricky lewis (like tommie sr. already has), he'll call (and i still wouldn't take the call). if not, life goes on. And so does slu basketball.

as Bono of U2 sang, "With or Without You." "With or Without You."

bad boyz for life

[NYBill]

You're correct it is a bit demeaning. I think his behavior deserves to be demeaned. He looked in Brad's eyes, told him I'm coming to SLU. Later, when he was forced to go the prep school route, he again looked in Brad's eyes and told him he's coming to SLU. Now, he "decides" (or someone else decides for him) not to come to SLU and does not return phone calls from SLU's staff?

He deserves to be demeaned. His word is worthless and any effort Brad puts in from this point forward is a waste of time. He is not coming to SLU.

I would hardly call my attitude defeatist. It is realistic. We have a great class coming this fall and we will have a great one next fall. I think the class will be better next fall if Brad focuses on real recruits instead of chasing a rainbow that leads to nothing but wasted time and other missed opportunities.

As for UNLV, I wouldn't even bother reporting them to the NCAA. Let's focus on our team and finding other recruits instead of wasting time whining to an organization that will never take any meaningful action.

[tseugnekillib]

For once, I agree with NYBill.

How much recruiting time, emotion and money can a staff spend on a recruit who hasn't achieved a qualifying test score, who goes back on his word and who may only be at your school for one or two years.

When are you better off recruiting the next best available player, who is a legitimate college student, who is responsible, and who will develope over a four or five year period.

I will accept whatever decision Coach Soderberg makes. For me, however, I am looking for another perimeter player to take TL's place.

For those posters wondering why SLU was recently recruiting the Redlands guard (committed to Xavier) this should shed some light on that effort. TL's decision is disappointing to the SLU staff, but certainly not a surprise.

[kshoe]

recruitment has reopened "seal" anything. Of course his recruitment has been reopened. We wouldn't have been sending AT up to New Jersey if it hadn't reopened. We wouldn't be reading internet guros telling us he has committed to UNLV if it wasn't reopened. And why do you assume Brad has released him from his LOI? If Brad has given up on Tommie why not say it now and not look like we are meekly chasing him? A simple statement like "we are parting ways with Tommie" would accomplish it. This is far from over.

[sluer]

I agree! Never, never, never, never, never, never give up. (Winston Churchill)

After all, some people left Savvis when we were down 9 pts with 45 seconds to go against Houston.

[3star_recruit]

"but a guy who can't get the minimum score on the SAT does not have the analytical skills to make a decision when there are so many competing voices around."

I think you are getting a little emotional here. Lots of kids have struggled to get the minimum test score but are just fine in the analytical department. For example, Tom Crean is always talking about what a good head Dwayne Wade has on his shoulders. This isn't an analytical issue - this is a misguided trust issue. The smartest people in the world can be guilty of that.

[bonwich]

Can anyone find the exact wording of what the NCAA regs are regarding the LOI?

It's been said on this board anecdotally that the LOI signed by Liddell was valid until the moment Lidell does not enroll at SLU for the fall semester. If this is true and if SLU can document that the "press conference" has been held, then SLU should hold a press conference of its own as soon as Levick and Biondi are next in town demanding immediate NCAA enforcement of its own rules and announcing the serving of this nice AAU coach with a multimillion-dollar lawsuit for tortuous interference with a contractual relationship.

For his part, Biondi should once and for all stand up and establish a leadership position demanding a level playing field from the NCAA. "The blatant corruption stops here," would be a nice battle cry.

If this one is as cut and dried as it appears, the Spanish Inquisition would be an excellent precedent.

[willie]

Surely no one I know would do that.

[davidnark]

First, Tommie has demonstrated a significant lack of maturity. A person with maturity and character doesn’t make a public promise to a group of people who have supported him for several years and then renege on that promise without even have the courtesy of letting his supporters know. We can fault the street agent, the AAU system, and UNLV, but Tommie Liddell—not any of the aforementioned persons—is the one who made the decision to change his promise. He is an adult and should be held accountable for his actions.

Second, I was as excited as everyone else to learn that the Tommie Liddell who looked forward to playing before his friends and family and earning his college degree was going to SLU. I don’t have much interest in the Tommie Liddell who doesn’t have the courtesy to return calls to long-time advisors, who believes the hype, who leans on thugs, and who sees college as nothing more than a stepping-stone to the NBA. History tells us that the latter tends to struggle academically, argue with coaches and teammates, and finish their “college” career in some town named after a second-tier president playing in some no-name minor league.

[kshoe]

that we don't p-diddy? Based on conflicting reports from Jalensdad and the Majority it certainly doesn't seem obvious to me that this is Tommie's decision and not just a p.r. ploy by the AAU coach. How did AT's meeting go with Tommie yesterday?

[Alonzo P Hawk]

I didn't know Clinton, Missouri had a college basketball team.

[3star_recruit]

"don't know if slu should ever mess with recruiting in esl again, (with the exception of jalensdad's kid of course). what this situation shows that as long as ricky lewis is running around, esl kids are for sale. no need to wallow in that cesspool."

I'm afraid you're right. Ricky has poisoned the waters over there.

[slufanskip]

I think Brad needs to forget Tommie also ... He is good, but it is not the end of the world ... there are better and Tommie wasn't coming here until 2005 anyhow.

I do not tjink he should let this go with the NCAA. He needs to raise serious Hell ... to the NCAA, to the Press, to anyone who will listen. I am sorry but there is no way Tommie changed to a school he hasn't visited and a coach who hasn't recruited him without some funny business. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[3star_recruit]

Street agent transactions aren't possible unless a street agent is involved. This was a freak accident -- it looks like Ricky Lewis got into the street agent business as soon as Tommie failed to qualify. After building a relationship with Tommie and his family for two years, this last minute corruption of the recruiting process by some local shark is not something the staff could have anticipated. But now that the staff knows, its likely that East St. Louis will be a Billiken-free zone.

Vashon is an inner-city school just like ESL but Floyd Irons, whatever else one may think about him, would never allow this kind of tampering.

[billiken_roy]

i agree with willie. the more we are up against the bigger name schools for a recruit, the more we will run into this. and let's face it, the character of most recruits isnt going to be the level of the lisch family in most cases. now liddell's and company, dont take that the wrong way, but the fact is, tommy let this happen. and to be honest, there was no way even letting ricky lewis around tommie, let alone traveling with him, was in his best interests. and like i said, i believe in most cases, the recruit in question would probably have bought into the b.s. lewis was selling. let's face it, we all like to hear compliments and positive things about ourselves. it takes a man like rusty lisch who was actually put through the ringer in his own athletic career path to be able to see through the nonesense and b.s. but anyway, back to willie's point, if we want to be a top program, we have to have liddell like recruits and if that is what we pursue, we better be prepared to fight for them.