NashvilleBilliken Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I will hold out judgement on Tommie until we hear something straight from him. However, I think that if he signs with UNLV this week, that shows more about tommie as a person than analytical skills. He had no reason to publicly proclaim he was coming to SLU regardless of what others tell him...but he did. This was what...a week ago? If he pulls a full 180 and an commits to UNLV the next week, that just shows the kind of person he is. This is the kind of person I don't want in our program. I learned long before 17 the differences between right/wrong, lying/telling the truth, etc. If Tommie wants to go elsewhere, then that is his decision. But the way things appear to be going down, is what makes me sick. He hasn't even given his two favorite college coaches a call (Sodes and AT). Again, i'm not bashing Tommie at this point. We don't know anything right now, but we'll see where it ends up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 according to franks show this morning, tommie has met with angres thorpe and talked with coach soderberg via telephone. he confirmed he wants to "reopen" his recruitment. as to "signing" with unlv or anyone else, tommie cant put anything in writing until november. however he is still slu's legal recruit until the end of august when school starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 It definitely does leave a bad taste in my mouth that Tommie didn't have the common courtesy to let Brad and Angres know about this. I just hope he doesn't let this Lewis clown run his life, because that could be a serious mistake for his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Good point about Irons 3Star. He would have put the kabosh on such nonsense in a heartbeat. Love him or hate him, his control over the Vashon players is a stabilizing influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 i pointed out to frank this morning in a call in to his show that bennie lewis must really be proud of his son at this time. (fyi for those new to the board, that was sarcasm). where the hell is bennie in all this? surely he doesnt like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I agree with that no name, dirt bag, Slufanskip! Kidding Skip, it's been a while. I really do agree though. I don't know the validity of any of this, but if all this is true - then get rid of his as#! Apparently, he's not reliable and his academics have already showed we be struggling to keep him academically eligible anyway. It's not about analytical skills or his intelligence - it's about making a commitment and honoring it. Sure, we all made mistakes at 17-18 years old, but we also made commitments and stuck to them. Sure the street agent's a piece a crap, but it's not like he held a gun to Tommie's head. I've heard Tommie is lazy and I don't know the truth of that. I do know he struggled academically and now we know he may not honor BIG commitments. That being said, good riddance! This program is heading in the right direction with or without TL. I agree we should fight the NCAA. Somebody said you have to fight if somebody steals your girlfriend. I agree you do. You whoop the person stealing the girl, then get rid of the girl and call her a *****! Oh my gosh, I fire myself up. Okay, kidding. (Somewhat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Guys, as you pile on Tommie and dump on him, you also are disrespecting his parents. Brad and staff are still going to be recruiting him, so mellow out on this. If I were Tommie's dad or uncle, I certainly would not want to be reading about how bad a person Tommie(and by inference, myself) is. Play the game by the book, never show your disrespect in public, and cut down a row of hundred year old oaks with your penKnife. Ther is not a fan among us who would not welcome a four year stay with Tommie in Billiken blue, so act the way you want to be seen in good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I agree with you about showing respect. I also think Nark's comments above are on target. I can't imagine Coach Brad wasting time re-recruiting this guy. It would be like going out and purchasing a tooth ache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 This is word for word what I found! The LOI reads: Letter becomes Null and Void if any of the following occur: a. Admissions requirement. This NLI shall be declared null and void, if the institution with which I signed notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or by the opening day of classes, has failed to provide me with written notice of admission, provided I have submitted a complete admission application. b. and c. are not applicable at this point. So unless SLU sent notice the LOI may still be in force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 This is exactly what I've talked about in my posts (this attitude).......every last one of them. SLU is a good school period. It's not the best school, it's a good school. "Some" posters on this board have been contradictory, biased, and full of assumptions. What in the heck does him knowing Thugs have to do with his character. What does it matter what "we" (the board) think when we're on the outside looking in have to do with who Liddell is as a person. Right now my darn son is lazy in school, he's a teenager, that happens. DO NOT try and turn coat on him now. This is exactly what the board did, before he even committed to SLU, i remember having a post conversation about him being from East St. Louis and how bad it is, and his environment, his lack of grades and good influences......but then all of a sudden he's the best thing happening to SLU since milk to cereal, now that he may have changed his mind, he's back to the urban trash that hangs around thugs, with not so good grades. What's up with those remarks? I take serious offense to it? If you would turn on him, what is really said about Reg when he's not having a good game etc......The coaching staff even pegged Reg for a Thug, and when our father got sick questions like; are u really close to your father as if.....what kind of question is that, i figured that maybe it was odd for them to see a kid from an urban area coming from a two parent home, where the parent works hard and was married at the time of conception.........I would put my comments on hold in the back of my mind but this warrants some chastising.....I cannot sit here and let u defame the character of someone simply because you're upset. You talk about u know what committment was at 17 or 18 most kids don't , I don't care if u grew up in the suburbs or in the "hood". How many of us at that age have snuck behind our parents back and did something we know they would dissapprove of, how many of us had more than one or two girlfriends or boyfriends, or backed out of something that someone wanted us to do but we didn't feel like doing it. So don't give me the committment stuff, i'm definitely not trying to hear the thug stuff, or about his grades.........I'm not trying to hear it, it was all good when he was gonna commit to SLU. To me that's a pot shot and very unnecessary, I hope Reg gives me wind of any said comments similar to this one and believe me when he has said things to me that concerned me, I addressed those issues directly to the intended person. I don't do the back biting, I don't write things about someone on this board that I wasn't secure enough to say right to there face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Brehms, lots of people here will be shooting from the hip. A person's character often is best revealed when they are down and out, because it is hardest to be true when everything is stacked against you, not when you are standing in the rose garden drinking tea. This adversity is a chance to strengthen ties with Tommie, not a chance to bail on him when he may have some serious questions. The naysayers can say all they want, but the fact that Brad and staff have recruited Tommie alongside Dwayne and Kevin, leads me to believe they see him developing into the same type of adult by attending SLU. We should back off on some of the negative feedback and let our coaching staff do what they have been hired to do. Don't think a certain junior to be at DeSmet is not following this story. Jared might even be reading some of the posts that I have found to be disappointing and embarassing, if not worse. Part of the "game" is showing yourself and your university in a good light, so those thinking of attending would be proud to make that decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 brehms, there maybe was a couple of posts by billiken fans that turned ugly on tommie, but for the most part, i think the biggest focus of ire was on the nasty street agent, ricky lewis. no arguments from me about the decision making ability of a young man or less than 20. but in the same sense, tommie doesnt deserve to be let off scott free either. he gave his word to brad soderberg, angres thorpe, saint louis university, and most importantly, his parents. in one weekend he lets this one guy talk him out of that without even consorting with the above mentioned advisors. i want tommie liddell to be a billiken as much if not more than anyone, but in the same sense, life is all about responsibilities and living up to promises and committments. it is high time tommie start to learn that. i dont need to lecture him, i am sure according to well informed sources, his parents are going to give him that lecture if they havent already. but part of growing up is making those mistakes and then living with the consequences thereafter. again, i am not thrashing tommie, i am defending the backlash he did receive the last few days. imo, tommie should be thrilled that he has a gentleman and a scholar such as brad soderberg to take him back. i remember a few years ago, jaron rush pulled this exact deal on roy williams at kansas. roy gave no second chances and the next thing jaron knew he was on a plane to los angeles. jaron rush was never the player again everyone hoped for and the bright lights and big city probably did not help his ability to survive as he might have at a university closer to home and those that loved and cared for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Brehms ... I don't know if your response was to me, but ... I have never dogged any player on this board or anywhere. I have made statements regarding my opinion of a players talent ... or perception of his work ethic. That is what this board is for ... to discuss our opinions ... sometimes most people agree and many times they don't. Sometimes people give a perspective I hadn't thought of and I change my opinion. I merely stated I think we should leave Tommie alone and search for other alternatives. After reading more ... I'm not sure what I think we should do ... continue to pursue him, or pull our offer and move on. Maybe the right course would be for Brad to sit down with Tommie and explain to him why we want him and the good points for him going to SLU. If he still wants to remain open to recruiting ... than so be it. At that point I don't think we should hold a scholarship open for him ... but let him know if he decides SLU is the place for him than to let us know. I don't know of anyone on this board who questioned Reg's need to be with his father ... in fact, I think we all agreed it was where he needed to be ... and supported him with our thoughts and prayers. Yes ... there are sometimes ecxeptions and someone spouts off ... but you occasionally lash out as if the entire board and Billiken fandom are rude and insensitive idiots. We are not ... our opinions may differ from yours ... but again isn't that what internet boards are for to discuss the topic of the board. Oh yes ... we do think SLU is the best thing since the invention of the wheel ... much longer than milk to cereal Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewey33 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Brehms, the anonymity that the internet provides makes it easy for some people to make assumptions and talk tough....you can be proud of Reggie, he is a good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Anonymity or not rumours flow through here pretty regularly. Many, a shockingly high percentage, tend to be true. I won't defend vicious personal attacks which thankfully don't often happen here. I will say though that jilted basketball fans will quite often have a negative reaction to this sort off thing. Tommie Lidell will be a great Billiken should he desire to honor the commitments he made. Should he desire otherwise I'll wish him the best but I won't think too highly of him after that. If that isn't fair because he's young, tough. Maybe he'll transfer here after a year or two like Reggie did. I'd be happy to have him at any point. Don't expect me to turn the cheek And be happy if a scum bad convinces Tommie to go elsewhere though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 It wasn't for u if u would look at the thread i responded to the comments made by TONKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Again I defer to "Tonka's" comments, Tommie knowing thugs and grades shouldn't be a reason to trash him, when all was singing his praises before, Is what I'm saying.......I don't know if u all are hearing me, JUST LIKE U ALL CAN SAY YOUR PEACE, I CERTAINLY HAVE SAID MINE. I'm not asking you all to like it, or agree, But I said what I feel. I don't like the decision if he doesn't choose SLU, but I'm not gonna defame him as a person. That's the difference, not saying you personally did, but some on the board did. I'm talking to them, so if u didn't say anything like that, then it DOESN'T APPLY TO U!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I popped of with some comments about UNLV not caring too much about grades or going to class. I'll get frustrated like the next guy. In any case, I'm glad to have you here and I'll try to remember we've got friends and family on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Roy, I got u, I know exactly what you're saying and you're right. I'm not saying don't be pissed with the decision; that Tommie is innocent, he's not. What I'm saying is some posters on the board are now hitting below the belt with their comments, as a person from an Urban Area, who had no choice but to grow up with some good and some bad people, some that one may consider "thuggish", that it's an insult to assume that just because of our environment that we don't honor our committments. I beg to differ, I say it's his age, it's his wants, his needs, his darn life; that he's gonna base his decision on, as in every teenager his age, and it's not a darn thing his parents or coaches can do about it. If it's a mistake, let him make it, SLU will survive. We shouldn't be hard pressed, because there's another waiting for the chance to be in his position. That's all I'm saying but to rag on him about his up bringing and friends certainly isn't gonna make things any better. It only alienates people on the board who come from similar backgrounds and who have worked hard to change such stereotypes, namely me, namely Reg. I took offense to his comments and I'm responding to them. If none of u who have responded to me, made those comments then the message wasn't intended for you. Trust me I know it's just not on this board as u may suggest, I've had this same conversation with people at SLU as well. Don't assume anything about people u don't know, don't say things about people u can't say in person(not u in particular, just my past comments made). Everyone has a voice on this board, he voiced his opinion and I voiced mine, but not one time did I say anything derogatory to get my point across, and I expect the same respect from everyone on this board. I'm not Tommie, but when u bring up peoples lives, and grades and friends etc.....as if that has an bearance on who Tommie is a person, it's crazy. He may have been led astray as Jalensdad said, he could be confused....he's young is my point.....if he doesn't make mistakes he won't ever learn. SLU will be okay, with or without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I'm there with u too, I know, I have had a friend of Reg's that went to UNLV and it was horrible, now he's home, no where but playing in playground games, I know their ethic. He chose them because of all the wrong reasons, but he didn't listen to anyone, it pushed us further apart because he felt like we were jealous, but in the end he realized he made a mistake, never graduated from college, so he didn't take advantage of the free education and he got dropped from the team. So I know a lot about the school and how they operate, I just say hey, now and days it's sad to say, but kids aren't looking for that college degree, they're looking for NBA loot, hopefully not in the case of Liddell but you just can't push. Just welcome him to the adult world of decision making and how those decisions may affect you for the rest of your life. It's just like parenting, we see our kids going in a wrong way, we automatically try to keep them from the hurt, the pain, the problems, but we know thats to no avail, because eventually they're gonna have to learn some life lessons on their own. I think this is what Tommie is going thru now. By the way Nark mentioned the leaning on thugs etc....it wasn't just Tonka, so let me clarify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 My bad, If that sounded harsh, I know u guys were there for our family, If u read my post in response to Tonka u will see that I said "some" posters on the board. I know it's not all posters Skip, But if someone makes a comment how am i supposed to respond. I hit the reply button on the thread in which the comment was made and I respond. Maybe I'll include names the next time so everyone else won't take it personal. But why do I always have to defend my comments to other people who I wasn't even referring to in the first place? What do I do in that case. So if I wanted to respond to Tonka or Nark, should I have emailed them privately, why is it against the rules for me to do just what u guys do, hit reply and type your response. The problem isn't who I respond to, I don't bite my tongue and it's hard for people to take, so everyone gets on me......When others responded to them about watching their mouth etc....it wasn't this much heat, why me? U wouldn't know what I've experienced with reporters and coaching staff about the situation with my father unless I told u, so why assume that I'm talking about posters on this board when I say Reg and my father's relationship was questioned. I just proved my point. When I commented I was telling you about my encounters with SLU personally, not just with posters on this board. I'm always interpreted to lash out at the "board", that's not the case, I clearly stated Some posters on the board not all. I made sure I clarified that.....when I typed it so this wouldn't occur. I guess it doesn't make a difference, I keep responding against my better judgement, I guess I'm hard headed, naive if u would, but I just feel like family here and while we can agree to disagree, we all still have the common good and that's to praise SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 It can be crude or it can be artfully articulate, but this junk has gone on a long time on this board. I tend to let it go, but I do not like it. I have never liked the bashing of players (totally unnecessary as fans should have it easy enjoying the sport). On a related note, too bad you were not here for the bashing of Soderberg when he was hired. It definitely gives you a sense of perspective. Since then only a handful, who deserve credit, have expressed any remorse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 ...then he caught himself a big fish. brehms, perhaps you haven't been here long enough or often enough to recognize Tonka for what he is -- a master baitor. See, Tonka loves hyperbole; he often writes tongue-in-cheek; most of his posts are satirical. I don't think he has a serious bone in his body. He likes to get a rise out of people. He once wrote a post imploring people to throw nachos and beer on fans who refuse to stand up at the arena. You can't take him seriously. If Tonka wrote negative statements about Tommie Liddell in this tread, then he was likely piggybacking sarcastically off of another poster (Skip, Nark, or DeSmet) who criticized in a much milder fashion. His point was: "Watch your mouth, because he may be reading." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Tonka should know that beer is much too expenive at Savis to throw on anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I feel it's dangerous to make blanket statements. There weren't that many people, in my opinion, who opposed the hiring of Brad Soderberg to have to express remorse for doing so. Second, some fans have expectations (and/or wishes) for the SLU program than to say that what modest accomplishments Soderberg has enjoyed thus far fits the bill to say that he was just what the doctor ordered. (For the record, not only did I recommend the hiring of Soderberg after his one year as an assistant to Lorenzo Romar, but I also thought it was a stroke of genius for Romar to bring him onto the staff in case he left SLU for Washington -- which he did do a year later.) Many of us are hardcore fans, but some of us realize we are just observers. We may have our thoughts and opinions, hopes and dreams, but what happens, happens. I'm glad Soderberg is the head coach, but I hope for much more than what has happened; however, I'd still root for the program if Brian Gregory or anyone else had been hired. I want, nearly desperately, for Tommie Liddell to play for the Billikens. But if he doesn't, I'll still follow and root for the team. I won't talk bad about Tommie, but I also won't follow him the same way as I did before, either. Chris Carawell and Loren Woods went to schools other than SLU and Mizzou, but I still followed and rooted for them (and their teams, to some extent) because they are from St. Louis and I watched them play in high school. But if Liddell spurns SLU after twice committing to the school, then, while I would wish him success in his life's endeavors, I wouldn't be giving him the same treatment I gave Carawell and Woods, since he would have reneged on his committment to one of my favorite teams. Liddell has to make his own decision, and he's the one that has to live with it. My life and my Billiken fanship will continue without him, should he not choose SLU. But I still would love to see him play for the Billikens. And why shouldn't Tommie play for SLU? I know why it would be a good idea for him TO play for SLU. He'd be right at home, where his family and longtime friends could see him play nearly every game. You're more of a hero as a star in your hometown than as a player in the mix at a big-time program far away. And I don't want to hear about this stuff about being prepared for the NBA better at a bigger program. There are few surprises these days; NBA scouts comb the world. If a genuine NBA prospect plays in a foreign country, at a high school, or at a small college, then NBA teams know about him. NBA players come from everywhere, not just for the BCS conferences. Liddell could get to the NBA through SLU as easily as he could through any other Div. I school. Larry Hughes wasn't held back as a result of playing for SLU. Next, Liddell would be part of a group that ushers in a move to a new conference and into a new arena; that would further elevate his position is Gateway basketball folklore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.