Hey Billiken Fans! I need your input.

[Box and Won]

I propose that we develop an all-encompassing manifesto detailing SLU's reasons for joining and staying in the A10 over the MVC. We can make it a sticky on the board and refer all future MVC questions to it.

[VeniceMenace]

A10 returns four Big Dance teams from last season: Davidson, Lasalle, VCU, SLU

MoValley returns one.

After loss of Temple/Charlotte, Butler/VCU join A10,

After loss of Xavier/Butler, George Mason/Davidson join A10

Mo Valley? Loyola.

'Nuff said...

[JettFlight5]

I propose that we develop an all-encompassing manifesto detailing SLU's reasons for joining and staying in the A10 over the MVC. We can make it a sticky on the board and refer all future MVC questions to it.

I see a best-seller in someone's future.

[slu72]

Davidson's not in until14-15 season.

[slu72]

I propose that we develop an all-encompassing manifesto detailing SLU's reasons for joining and staying in the A10 over the MVC. We can make it a sticky on the board and refer all future MVC questions to it.

I'll bite: Suggestion, All schools are not created equal, SLU will play in a conference with similar academic values.

[Quality Is Job 1]

A10 returns four Big Dance teams from last season: Davidson, Lasalle, VCU, SLU

MoValley returns one.

After loss of Temple/Charlotte, Butler/VCU join A10,

After loss of Xavier/Butler, George Mason/Davidson join A10

Mo Valley? Loyola.

'Nuff said...

Davidson isn't a member of the A-10 yet. And I don't expect SLU to ever share a conference with them.

[MB73]

Think.

• If SLU was in MVC last year Wichita State (Final 4), SLU, Creighton all did well in the NCAA's, 3 out of 11 teams, arguably better than the A-10. RPI over the last 9 yrs has been too close to matter.
• Hall Of Fame Coach Rick Majerus, who saved our program despite numerous bad breaks, stated clearly several times that the caliber of hoops in the MVC was equal to the A-10. (but some on this board who never played the game after 8th grade know better). Majerus finally gave up with that, it was futile. Meanwhile, we watch 16 teams mostly from 1,000 miles away, Fordham, RI, GW, Duquesne, St. Bonnie, so many bad ones...
• If we were in the MVC all along, we would have better rivalries, more fan interest, bigger crowds (some visiting from our nearby rivals), and the opportunity to drive to far more conference games than current (Rhode F*cking Island?).
• It would have saved a fortune in travel costs, especially when you consider the other dozens of teams we field besides basketball. And fewer missed classes. It matters.
• It is nonsense to suggest that the A-10 big cities matter as it relates to student recruiting... so many good NCAA teams are in little sh*tty towns, think of the Big 12, or Big 10 (Duke is in the armpit of The South, Durham).
• If we had been in the MVC we still would have had an opportunity for the New Big East... Creighton got in.

So sure, it is subject to debate, but do not slam dunk the issue like the MVC is completely undesirable and the A-10 is supreme.

Debatable, yes.

We need to get into the New BE. That would be different, the big time, $ 3 million a yr in TV revenue (or whatever), Fox national TV exposure, storied former national champions in the conference. Worth it.

[kwyjibo]

Thank you for your answer. Remebmer this however.... SLU left the Valley in the 70's only because it could no longer compete at the level the conference demanded from them. SLU went through a long long period of nothinghood before ressurrecting themselves in the A10 in the last decade.

As Bay Area Billiken already noted this is so wrong on so many levels. SLU left the Valley to ultimately join the Metro which was a decent basketball conference (SLU did do poorly in the Metro but that had nothing to do with leaving the Valley) and a precursor to a lot of the ambitious conference grabbing that was to come .

Also, the statement that SLU could not compete in the Valley is utterly ridiculous--the last 4 seasons they competed in the Valley they finished 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 8th. So yes they had ONE bad year on their way out of the Valley but the lean years were to come in the competitive Metro.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Kansas was also in the MVC.

[cgeldmacher]

In the past and now, the A-10 is a better situation for SLU than the Valley. I cheer for Valley teams in my never ending desire to cheer for every underdog, unless they're playing SLU, to win in the tournament. However, the only thing that the Valley has going for it with SLU is location.

Even with the recent departures, the A-10 will have consistently better top end teams than the Valley. The A-10 gets more top 100 recruits than the Valley every year. The A-10 gets more teams in the tournament (nearly) every year. The A-10 seems to get more media coverage (east coast bias acknowledged). The A-10 can be a final destination for a coach, as opposed to the Valley which only serves as a coach's opportunity to try to land a big paycheck at another school.

Finally, for those saying that playing games out east does not help recruiting, I will throw this out: does Reggie Agbeko, who is from Buffalo, even know who we are if we played in the Valley? I'm not saying I know that answer to this, but we have to admit that it is a possibility that it did play a part in his consideration of SLU. Perhaps those awful trips to St. Bonaventure may have actually helped SLU for once. I doubt he ever considered going to Wichita State to play his college career in the Missouri Valley Conference.

[MB73]

In the past and now, the A-10 is a better situation for SLU than the Valley. I cheer for Valley teams in my never ending desire to cheer for every underdog, unless they're playing SLU, to win in the tournament. However, the only thing that the Valley has going for it with SLU is location.

Even with the recent departures, the A-10 will have consistently better top end teams than the Valley. The A-10 gets more top 100 recruits than the Valley every year. The A-10 gets more teams in the tournament (nearly) every year. The A-10 seems to get more media coverage (east coast bias acknowledged). The A-10 can be a final destination for a coach, as opposed to the Valley which only serves as a coach's opportunity to try to land a big paycheck at another school.

Finally, for those saying that playing games out east does not help recruiting, I will throw this out: does Reggie Agbeko, who is from Buffalo, even know who we are if we played in the Valley? I'm not saying I know that answer to this, but we have to admit that it is a possibility that it did play a part in his consideration of SLU. Perhaps those awful trips to St. Bonaventure may have actually helped SLU for once. I doubt he ever considered going to Wichita State to play his college career in the Missouri Valley Conference.

So you are saying Wichita State is unable to recruit top players? They made it to The Final Four and coulda-shoulda won the game. Do your homework... they have players from NY, Georgia, Texas, etc., etc.

Now that Creighton is out, The MVC is less desirable. However, in mid-major leagues, teams come and go. In The MVC SIUC and MO State and Drake and others had some very good runs. So did GW and RI and others in the A-10. It would be optimal if we get into The New BE (no sh*t).

[Littlebill]

So you are saying Wichita State is unable to recruit top players? They made it to The Final Four and coulda-shoulda won the game. Do your homework... they have players from NY, Georgia, Texas, etc., etc.

.

Seriously? Making the Final 4 is great and all, but did they beat ANY teams during their run that we wouldn't have beaten handily? Pitt, Zaga, LaSalle(!!!!!!), and Ohio St. I mean congrats on the Final Four, but they weren't exactly winning these games against world beaters.

Gonzaga probably had the best regular season, and they hardly got past Southern U. We know how LaSalle loved playing us this year on Senior Day. And OSU was a good win. We would have been the best team in the bracket! Yes, I'm still drinking the blue kool aid, but we were simply a better team than them. If VCU, Butler, us, or Temple got that draw, would it have not been the same?

There's no reason to talk up the MVC now that Creighton is gone. NONE. What's next? Horizon League talk? The Summit maybe? I mean those have geographical rivals. I'm sure wed love to play Oakland and UMKC.

[Bizziken]

I posted this a few years ago, so I thought I'd update. A lot of us have always maintained that not being in the Valley is more about academics, university exposure, and image rather than talent level. If SLU were to join the MVC it would be the premier academic institution in the Conference. That doesn't mean the Valley has bad schools at all, I just think SLU administrators wouldn't (and shouldn't) move to a conference with lesser academic esteem. After all, we are a University first and foremost...

I hate rankings, and believe they are ambiguous and somewhat arbitrary, however many, many students take these rankings to heart when making their college decision...

ATLANTIC 10

National Universities

#50-60- George Washington (Unranked in 2013 due to a reporting error)

#58- Fordham

#92- SLU

#97- UMass

#115- Dayton

#120- Duquesne

#139- George Mason

#147- Rhode Island

#170- VCU

Regional Universities

#8 North- Saint Joseph's

#26 North- LaSalle (Was in the Top 10, but dropped due to not reporting scholarship stats)

#33 North- St. Bonaventure

Liberal Arts Colleges

#12- Davidson (in 2014)

#28- Richmond

MISSOURI VALLEY

National Universities

#106- Loyola (IL)

#156- Illinois State

#179- Southern Illinois Carbondale

NONE- Indiana State

NONE- Wichita State

Regional Universities

#3 Midwest- Drake

#6 Midwest- Bradley

#9 Midwest- Evansville

#22 Midwest- Northern Iowa

#60 Midwest- Missouri State

BIG EAST

National Universities

#21- Georgetown

#83- Marquette

#131- Seton Hall

#134- DePaul

#147- St. Johns

Regional Universities

#1 North- Villanova

#4 North- Providence

#1 Midwest- Creighton

#2 Midwest- Butler

#4 Midwest- Xavier

[TheA_Bomb]

Hey guys I've been traveling and not checking the board very much just thought I'd see - what - was - going - on.........Oh same stuff as before, OK. So I didn't miss anything cool.

[slu72]

Keep watching, ABomb, the next really really relevant topic will be a discussion on why Blake Ahern was not a Billiken.

[MB73]

Seriously? Making the Final 4 is great and all, but did they beat ANY teams during their run that we wouldn't have beaten handily? Pitt, Zaga, LaSalle(!!!!!!), and Ohio St. I mean congrats on the Final Four, but they weren't exactly winning these games against world beaters.

Gonzaga probably had the best regular season, and they hardly got past Southern U. We know how LaSalle loved playing us this year on Senior Day. And OSU was a good win. We would have been the best team in the bracket! Yes, I'm still drinking the blue kool aid, but we were simply a better team than them. If VCU, Butler, us, or Temple got that draw, would it have not been the same?

There's no reason to talk up the MVC now that Creighton is gone. NONE. What's next? Horizon League talk? The Summit maybe? I mean those have geographical rivals. I'm sure wed love to play Oakland and UMKC.

I agree that without Creighton, the MVC is much less desirable.

But answer me this: if we were in The MVC last yr, and not in the A-10... which league would be more attractive?

MVC: Wichita State, SLU, Creighton... 11 teams vs. 15 teams in A-10 without SLU.

Losing Creighton is a blow, but The A-10 lost Temple, Xavier, Butler.

My argument is that "it is debatable", those who say A-10 is "superior" are wrong. The leagues competiveness have been equivalent over the last 9 yrs.

Majerus said so.

[Bobby Metzinger]

I agree that without Creighton, the MVC is much less desirable.

But answer me this: if we were in The MVC last yr, and not in the A-10... which league would be more attractive?

MVC: Wichita State, SLU, Creighton... 11 teams vs. 15 teams in A-10 without SLU.

Losing Creighton is a blow, but The A-10 lost Temple, Xavier, Butler.

My argument is that "it is debatable", those who say A-10 is "superior" are wrong. The leagues competiveness have been equivalent over the last 9 yrs.

Majerus said so.

Don't forget Charlotte. #NeverForget

[slufanskip]

Just ask yourself this question.

You are sitting on the comode having just finished taking a massive, nasty dump. You reach for the toilet paper and find out you are completely out. However, hanging on the rack next to you is an A-10 towel and a MVC towel .... which do you grab to wipe your ass?

[JMM28]

I'd say the MVC towel. The A10 has already been used by Xavier, Temple, and Butler to wipe after they took their grumpy all over the A10.

[Bobby Metzinger]

I'd say the MVC towel. The A10 has already been used by Xavier, Temple, and Butler to wipe after they took their grumpy all over the A10.

[Littlebill]

I agree that without Creighton, the MVC is much less desirable.

But answer me this: if we were in The MVC last yr, and not in the A-10... which league would be more attractive?

MVC: Wichita State, SLU, Creighton... 11 teams vs. 15 teams in A-10 without SLU.

Losing Creighton is a blow, but The A-10 lost Temple, Xavier, Butler.

My argument is that "it is debatable", those who say A-10 is "superior" are wrong. The leagues competiveness have been equivalent over the last 9 yrs.

How many of those 11 teams woul have even finished in the top ten? Realistically. Two? Creighton and Wichtita?

Richmond finished tenth in the league at 18-14 (8-8). Would any of these Valley teams finish better than .500 if in a league like the A10? I don't think so.

Also, you keep using stats from the past 9 years, but it's more about the future. Where are these conferences headed? The Valley lost one of their two marquee programs, and the A-10 lost three (if you count Butler) of its six. (SLU, VCU, and Dayton as the other three) IF (it's a big if) SLU and/or SVU stay in the A10 there just isn't an argument that the conference will be superior to the Valley. There is a reason that the A10 is two spots higher in the RPI, even including Wichita's run against RPI-bloated opponents (Gonzaga), which bumped up its RPI.

And that's just basketball. There's also the type of schools, east coast exposure, etc. The only thing the Valley has going for it is location and local rivalries.