BillyKen Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_glockner/09/04/NCAA-college-basketball-roundup/index.html #5 is not bad, but I wonder how much losing Rick impacted this. VCU is ranked 3 despite it admitting that SLU is "the likely A10 favorite." That is probably due in part to VCU's 2 ESPN top 100 recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 http://sportsillustr...ndup/index.html #5 is not bad, but I wonder how much losing Rick impacted this. VCU is ranked 3 despite it admitting that SLU is "the likely A10 favorite." That is probably due in part to VCU's 2 ESPN top 100 recruits. Accepting "mid-major" as a tag for our program is unacceptable. It makes me cringe when lazy sports writers use it for any program, let alone ours. SI has slid so far into irrelevance, it's hard to care what they say, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Accepting "mid-major" as a tag for our program is unacceptable. It makes me cringe when lazy sports writers use it for any program, let alone ours. SI has slid so far into irrelevance, it's hard to care what they say, anyway. I think Xavier had an argument years ago when they publically fought this tag. I dont think SLU can make that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I think Xavier had an argument years ago when they publically fought this tag. I dont think SLU can make that case The loser who wrote this article makes the case for himself: he includes Gonzaga and Memphis. Memphis has been to 3 Final Fours, making the finals as recently as 2008. 6 Elite Eights, 11 Sweet Sixteens, a ton of Tournament appearances and conference championships, dozens of NBA players produced, and one of the best-attended home arenas in all of college basketball. Gonzaga has won its conference 15 times since 1994, made the Tournament 15 times, with 5 Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight (and have been considered "underachieving" by many based on their Tournament performance compared to regular season success and talent level). Not many other programs have sustained this level of success in the past 2 decades. What about UNLV? One of the biggest gyms in college basketball, all those Tark teams of the late 80s/early 90s, a bunch of future NBA players. They're on his list, too. How would this guy classify programs like Northwestern, Nebraska, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rutgers, South Florida, Washington State, Arizona State, Colorado, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss, and the other BCS-conference basketball program that have not had much success? Are they "mid-majors"? Are some, but not all? Can there be "mid-majors" in the richest conferences, and "high-majors" in others? Certainly none of these programs are even close to UNLV, Xavier, Butler, Memphis, or Gonzaga in terms of success at the highest level. It's a stupid term and we're better off without it. SLU fans would be best to ignore it and not allow the BCS-loving scribes of SI, ESPN, and the rest of them to pigeonhole us as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirahna Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The loser who wrote this article makes the case for himself: he includes Gonzaga and Memphis. Memphis has been to 3 Final Fours, making the finals as recently as 2008. 6 Elite Eights, 11 Sweet Sixteens, a ton of Tournament appearances and conference championships, dozens of NBA players produced, and one of the best-attended home arenas in all of college basketball. Gonzaga has won its conference 15 times since 1994, made the Tournament 15 times, with 5 Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight (and have been considered "underachieving" by many based on their Tournament performance compared to regular season success and talent level). Not many other programs have sustained this level of success in the past 2 decades. What about UNLV? One of the biggest gyms in college basketball, all those Tark teams of the late 80s/early 90s, a bunch of future NBA players. They're on his list, too. How would this guy classify programs like Northwestern, Nebraska, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rutgers, South Florida, Washington State, Arizona State, Colorado, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss, and the other BCS-conference basketball program that have not had much success? Are they "mid-majors"? Are some, but not all? Can there be "mid-majors" in the richest conferences, and "high-majors" in others? Certainly none of these programs are even close to UNLV, Xavier, Butler, Memphis, or Gonzaga in terms of success at the highest level. It's a stupid term and we're better off without it. SLU fans would be best to ignore it and not allow the BCS-loving scribes of SI, ESPN, and the rest of them to pigeonhole us as such. What term would you give Mtn West, A10, CUSA, Mo Valley etc.? I hear non-BCS conferences thrown around a lot on this board, but even that term is incorrect because the BCS is only applicable to football not to any other sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 What term would you give Mtn West, A10, CUSA, Mo Valley etc.? I hear non-BCS conferences thrown around a lot on this board, but even that term is incorrect because the BCS is only applicable to football not to any other sports. LCS - Less corupted schools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirahna Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 LCS - Less corupted schools I guess that would hold true, now that Calipari is out of Memphis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Some mid majors have done well and made it to the dance. But they are still mid majors. SLU is a mid major. Deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The A10 is the best non football conference in the land. Better at basketball than a lot of BCS conferences, such as the Pac10 and probably a couple of others this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What term would you give Mtn West, A10, CUSA, Mo Valley etc.? I hear non-BCS conferences thrown around a lot on this board, but even that term is incorrect because the BCS is only applicable to football not to any other sports. Multi-bid conferences (Big East, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Pac 12, A10, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast, C-USA) and one-bid conferences (there are 22 of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Accepting "mid-major" as a tag for our program is unacceptable. It makes me cringe when lazy sports writers use it for any program, let alone ours. SI has slid so far into irrelevance, it's hard to care what they say, anyway. The loser who wrote this article makes the case for himself: he includes Gonzaga and Memphis. Memphis has been to 3 Final Fours, making the finals as recently as 2008. 6 Elite Eights, 11 Sweet Sixteens, a ton of Tournament appearances and conference championships, dozens of NBA players produced, and one of the best-attended home arenas in all of college basketball. Gonzaga has won its conference 15 times since 1994, made the Tournament 15 times, with 5 Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight (and have been considered "underachieving" by many based on their Tournament performance compared to regular season success and talent level). Not many other programs have sustained this level of success in the past 2 decades. What about UNLV? One of the biggest gyms in college basketball, all those Tark teams of the late 80s/early 90s, a bunch of future NBA players. They're on his list, too. How would this guy classify programs like Northwestern, Nebraska, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rutgers, South Florida, Washington State, Arizona State, Colorado, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss, and the other BCS-conference basketball program that have not had much success? Are they "mid-majors"? Are some, but not all? Can there be "mid-majors" in the richest conferences, and "high-majors" in others? Certainly none of these programs are even close to UNLV, Xavier, Butler, Memphis, or Gonzaga in terms of success at the highest level. It's a stupid term and we're better off without it. SLU fans would be best to ignore it and not allow the BCS-loving scribes of SI, ESPN, and the rest of them to pigeonhole us as such. Don't have a problem with being labeled mid-major at all. Most of the time I think writers are just referring to schools outside of the "power 6" conferences. I've never seen "programs like Northwestern, Nebraska, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rutgers, South Florida, Washington State, Arizona State, Colorado, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss" labeled as mid-major. Not really a success thing. I'd call Memphis, X, and Gonzaga mid-majors too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellevegas Bill Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Mid-major typically refers to any NCAA D1 conference out side of the BCS Football conferences. I won't say I love it, but I will say I think it wouldn't be hard to redefine the conferences when it comes to basketball as the multi-bid and one-bid conferences like waldo did. Then again who cares about those 22 other conferences, no one really as they typically account for the 13, 14, 15, and 16 seeded teams. A majority of these teams don't even make through the first weekend, and typically only one every few years will make it to the second weekend if they are absolutely lucky (note that I said lucky, it doesn't mean the team is all that good in the first place.) Mid-major just gives the media an easy way to discuss the A10, CUSA, MW, MV, and WC conferences. Accept it and move on, hope for the Billikens in the top 25, then we get as much media as we want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Accepting "mid-major" as a tag for our program is unacceptable. It makes me cringe when lazy sports writers use it for any program, let alone ours. SI has slid so far into irrelevance, it's hard to care what they say, anyway. I agree with Jay Bilas on this subject. "The A10 is not a Mid-Major conference." He should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The A10 is the best non football conference in the land. Better at basketball than a lot of BCS conferences, such as the Pac10 and probably a couple of others this year. Who? ACC? Big East? Big Ten? Big 12? SEC? Answer, please. And yes Pac 12 had an off yr, but over last 20 yrs that is uh, rare. UCLA, Stanford, Wash, AZ, etc... So don't rank A-10 over Pac 12 quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony 4 Billikens Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The Mid-Major Poll which is run by collegeinsider.com does not consider the A-10 or SLU as a mid-major conference or school. Here are the conferences they list as mid-major: NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Great West, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast. http://www.collegeinsider.com/mmpoll/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The Mid-Major Poll which is run by collegeinsider.com does not consider the A-10 or SLU as a mid-major conference or school. Here are the conferences they list as mid-major: NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Great West, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast. http://www.collegeinsider.com/mmpoll/ -very good first post, welcome to the board -if you haven't been reading for sometime we'll need to find the initiation thread for you to read to know the somewhat taboo subjects, let us know (mods there could be a link to that very entertaining and useful thread in the pinned one post thread) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Who? ACC? Big East? Big Ten? Big 12? SEC? Answer, please. And yes Pac 12 had an off yr, but over last 20 yrs that is uh, rare. UCLA, Stanford, Wash, AZ, etc... So don't rank A-10 over Pac 12 quite yet. Look it up moosebreath. The A10 will be better this year than the Pac1# for sure. It could be better than the SEC or ACC. The A10 has been a better conference than the Pac10 for 3 out of the past 6 years. Anything further back than that and the conferences play musical chairs. If the A10 didn't have the usual suspects dragging down the conference, it would have been the 4th or 5th best conference LAST YEAR, before the addition of Butler and VCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What term would you give Mtn West, A10, CUSA, Mo Valley etc.? I hear non-BCS conferences thrown around a lot on this board, but even that term is incorrect because the BCS is only applicable to football not to any other sports. Why do we need a term to include all of them? D-I includes, what, 345 schools? (I can't remember the exact number, but I think last season ended with 345.) They're all playing for the same prize and they're already grouped into conferences, so why do we need to create arbitrary groupings for them beyond that? Don't have a problem with being labeled mid-major at all. Most of the time I think writers are just referring to schools outside of the "power 6" conferences. I've never seen "programs like Northwestern, Nebraska, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rutgers, South Florida, Washington State, Arizona State, Colorado, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss" labeled as mid-major. Not really a success thing. I'd call Memphis, X, and Gonzaga mid-majors too. That's a bummer. I have a serious problem with it. No good definition for "mid-major" exists (nor does one for "low-major" or "high-major" for that matter, and all three terms are complete nonsense when you think about it), so I can't accept it for shorthand by a writer when each writer may have a different idea of what "mid-major" includes. Multi-bid conferences (Big East, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Pac 12, A10, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast, C-USA) and one-bid conferences (there are 22 of them). Not a bad start, but bids change from year to year. The A10 was head and shoulders above the Pac 12 last year and for a long time people were making a case for 5-6 A10 schools to get in the Tournament, while only 1 Pac 12 school was looking deserving for part of the year. There are years in which only 1 C-USA or Valley or WCC school might get in, depending on how things break late in the season. But this is at least putting some thought into it, because there are clearly moneyed, powerful conferences that dictate college sports for everyone else (the six big BCS conferences in football), a level of conferences with consistently strong basketball programs that compete with those six conferences for Tournament bids (A10, MWC, WCC, C-USA, Valley), and conferences that need everything to break just right in order to get more than 1 bid (everyone else). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deutschkind Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 The Mid Majority defines the mid majors based on athletic department budgets. Having 20 million total and 2 million for basketball puts a school above their red line and into "major" category. A10 is considered a mid major by them. http://www.midmajority.com/redline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKen Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 We are what we are. I have no problem with the term mid-major. It essentially just means that we are not in Power 6 Conference. I think of it as more of a "Sleeper" pick than anything else. As we all know, there are those with the east coast and power conference biases who only think that power teams from he power 6 can make a legit run. But, a mid-major can still have great sustained success, as the Pistol clearly indicated his second post on the topic. Therefore, I have no problem with the label. Regardless of the term and your opinion of the quality of Sports Illustrated, we received some recognition from a national and well recognized news source. I can deal with that and, I can deal with being called a "mid-major." At least we are a top 5 mid-major! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 That's a bummer. I have a serious problem with it. No good definition for "mid-major" exists (nor does one for "low-major" or "high-major" for that matter, and all three terms are complete nonsense when you think about it), so I can't accept it for shorthand by a writer when each writer may have a different idea of what "mid-major" includes. You're right. I think most agree that no good/universal definition exists, but it's usually easy to gather what "group of teams" the writer is referring to based on the article itself... just a popular phase most fans will understand to roughly the same degree. Not that serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Multi-bid conferences (Big East, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Pac 12, A10, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, West Coast, C-USA) and one-bid conferences (there are 22 of them). +1 That is a better way of looking at it. "BCS" conferences are just a football creation. I think there is a distinction between leagues that get multiple bids and those that are routinely "one bid" leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirahna Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Why do we need a term to include all of them? D-I includes, what, 345 schools? (I can't remember the exact number, but I think last season ended with 345.) They're all playing for the same prize and they're already grouped into conferences, so why do we need to create arbitrary groupings for them beyond that? I think that there is a large enough distinction between the "power" conferences and "mid-majors" and the "one bid" conferences that there does need to be labels. The A10 just falls in a grey area. It has been better than some of the "power" conferences in the past few years and has separated itself from the "mid majors". I think the media has trouble defining the A10, so the easy thing for them to do is just lumping us with the mid majors. It is nice to see people like Bilas begin to give the A10 the proper recognition, I think most of the NCAAB commentators would probably agree with him, that idea just has yet to crossover into the regular multi sport commentators' at ESPN, CBS, NBC etc. vernaculars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Lindy's Sports Magazine has us as the #2 mid major and #9 overall. http://www.insidethehall.com/2012/09/05/indiana-no-1-in-athlon-sports-no-2-in-lindys-sports-preseason-magazine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 What's wrong with Lindy's?Only 9th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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