billikenfan05 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 That is why I am saying turn the thing on its head--say you were drinking and therefore couldn't possibly of consented either. So, by rule she committed just as much of a sexual assault on you as you did to her. SLU is supposed to be an open and diverse learning institution--heck they just put up a bunch of flags advertising how diverse they are--now lets truly be diverse and drop the sexism that is implied and built into the rule. If you truly follow it to the letter: If a man is drunk than he could not give consent either. The only problem is that in admitting to being drunk they open themselves up to what I assume is going on right now: Being suspended for a year for drinking/substance abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsheldon Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 The only problem is that in admitting to being drunk they open themselves up to what I assume is going on right now: Being suspended for a year for drinking/substance abuse. I understand that--but I don't think they will be kicked off campus and suspended for a whole season just for going to a party and having a few drinks at the end of the school year well after the season. They will be punished for sure--and rightly so, but not kicked off of the team for whole season. Maybe a few games, some community service, counseling, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUAILMAN Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Word is that Channel 5 cut off the 2nd half of the kid who said, "of course athletes shouldn't get special treatment". he also said...."however I have yet to hear any hard evidence supporting a rape so how can they punish anyone?" but it was cut out. true story. and his name isn't Ollie Green. channel 5 chumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 obviously not, there still needs to be some responsibility but if both parties are drunk then why is only one being blamed?... how do we know she hasnt been punished? the fact is she has no public intrigue so no one cares about her situation. in some ways that indeed is wrong and maybe sad depending on what the truth is. but i thought someone said in one of the million posts over the last week that the girl is no longer at slu? maybe she was asked to go elsewhere by slu as well? i dont know. i do agree her role should not be downplayed. especially if it is a matter where everything that occured was completely consensual. but two wrongs dont make it all right either. she should be out of slu as well in that instance if that is what happens to our players. or if our players are allowed to stay, then she should be allowed to stay as well. what's good for one side should be the same for the other assuming it was all consensual drunkeness that led to the events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsheldon Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 You will have just as many people who dislike athletics (you know there are a large number on campus) who will take up the other side of the fight. The last thing that is needed here is more publicity. It will then be portrayed as trying to allow BB players to get away with sexual assault to save the season. If that side of the battle is waged, the players, whoever they are will be crucified by the media. You think their lives are getting ruined now? You are probably right. I was just in the heat of the moment--someone ssaid they committee should see some of these ideas. That was my thought to make sure they did--kind of toungue in cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I understand that--but I don't think they will be kicked off campus and suspended for a whole season just for going to a party and having a few drinks at the end of the school year well after the season. They will be punished for sure--and rightly so, but not kicked off of the team for whole season. Maybe a few games, some community service, counseling, etc.I haven't looked at Student Code lately and thankfully. But I'm pretty sure those are the penalties for repeated alcohol offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Not in general obviously, as we live in the real world. But SLU's code of conduct rules don't live there. According to their rules--your statement is correct as far as sexual consent is concerned. There is no possibility of consent if there is drinking involved. Even if a gal strips down to nothing, rubs her funbags in your face, goes downtown on you while you are passed out and then you wake up half way through--if you continue or not is irrelevant. She can later say she regrets what happened and charge you with sexual assualt or rape because she did not (could not by the rule) give consent because she had had a few drinks. Now I say to turn the thing around and say that you obviously couldn't of given consent either as you were drunk and therefore she assaulted you--as you now regret what happened.It is state law in Illinois. Consent cannot be given because of impared judgement. So the Illinois law is the same as SLU. I am unsure about Missouri. I am sure it is hard to prove but as stated in the SLU student code. Reasonable doubt does not apply, only is it likely to have happened. http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/daterape.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I'm starting to fear that now that the story is out, SLU will be TOO harsh against the players because they are athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 how do we know she hasnt been punished? the fact is she has no public intrigue so no one cares about her situation. in some ways that indeed is wrong and maybe sad depending on what the truth is. but i thought someone said in one of the million posts over the last week that the girl is no longer at slu? maybe she was asked to go elsewhere by slu as well? i dont know. i do agree her role should not be downplayed. especially if it is a matter where everything that occured was completely consensual. but two wrongs dont make it all right either. she should be out of slu as well in that instance if that is what happens to our players. or if our players are allowed to stay, then she should be allowed to stay as well. what's good for one side should be the same for the other assuming it was all consensual drunkeness that led to the events. assuming it was all consentual drunken sex ... are all students who have consentual drunken sex in the dorms going to be suspended? I'm glad I didn't go to college and went in the military instead. I was allowed to have all the drunken consentual sex I wanted to in my dorm room. Even kinky sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 You are probably right. I was just in the heat of the moment--someone ssaid they committee should see some of these ideas. That was my thought to make sure they did--kind of toungue in cheek.I can appreciate that, all I am saying is that more attention is the last thing this needs. For the sake of the players and the young woman involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 The eyewitness speaks out: dat doo just mad cuz someone done up and raped his mother during pregnancy and dented his head in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I can appreciate that, all I am saying is that more attention is the last thing this needs. For the sake of the players and the young woman involved. In my mind, it's going to get more attention now because they hushed it up so long. They could have taken care of this over the summer or at the beginning of the school year and there would've been less time for the story to leak. It was going to eventually leak to the public if they put it off for too long. Now you have a woman's rights and perceived athlete favoritism issue or a racial issue. SLU will have to choose what they want to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 It is state law in Illinois. Consent cannot be given because of impared judgement. So the Illinois law is the same as SLU. I am unsure about Missouri. I am sure it is hard to prove but as stated in the SLU student code. Reasonable doubt does not apply, only is it likely to have happened. http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/daterape.cfm So if they were both drunk, do they both go to jail for rape, even when they both consented under the influence? The moral to this story is don't get drunk and have sex in Illinois. So if I go to a strip club, get drunk, meet a stripper and have sex, she is guilty of raping me. Not a bad gig, I could then probably take her and the club she works in to civil court and based upon the fact she was found guilty, get a nice little settlement. Anyone want to go to the east side tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedtheblue Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I haven't looked at Student Code lately and thankfully. But I'm pretty sure those are the penalties for repeated alcohol offenses. speaking as an individual who has been 'written up' twice for alcohol violations (the first underage and the second being over 21 but having an open container) i am very familiar with what the process is... the first write up is some community service and an alcohol class and a 50$ fine... the second is a $150 fine, reflection paper, parental notification, and you have to see the counselor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Anybody know when the CBI tickets go on sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Anybody know when the CBI tickets go on sale? +1 Second best post of the day following whoever wrote that Greg Oden joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Nothing new on the news I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearerofbadnews Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 My point is this: These "unbecoming" instances are happening every weekend. It's the nature of any college these days. I know you have an idealistic image of what SLU students "should" act like; but that isn't reality. If we are going to punish people because of instances that happen every weekend on SLU's campus, DPS and student conduct are going to be very busy. I don't care if they were basketbal players are not. It has moved far beyond that for me. We are talking about ruining the reputation and life of a kid a who is at the whim of a "non-consenting victim" and a gung-ho student conduct board that is eager to display its authority. Why does it matter if she was intoxicated, yet it apparently has no bearing on the outcome if the alleged offender was also intoxicated? While that may not be the way the rule is written, that is exactly how it is being applied. Random drunken hookups happen every Friday and Saturday night and it would be a damn shame for someone to be made an example of. Did you notice that there are TWO alleged perpetrators, and one alleged victim? And do you remember, in fact, that the Circuit Attorney made the decision not to charge THREE basketball players in connection with the alleged sexual assault on ONE girl? You don't have to read between the lines to see that this girl's allegations probably went a little further than "random drunken hookup" that went wrong. Whether her allegations are true or not or whether there is significant evidence is a different story, but I think that the kind of allegations that this girl has made are certainly things that do not happen every weekend at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken2damax Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Did you notice that there are TWO alleged perpetrators, and one alleged victim? And do you remember, in fact, that the Circuit Attorney made the decision not to charge THREE basketball players in connection with the alleged sexual assault on ONE girl? You don't have to read between the lines to see that this girl's allegations probably went a little further than "random drunken hookup" that went wrong. Whether her allegations are true or not or whether there is significant evidence is a different story, but I think that the kind of allegations that this girl has made are certainly things that do not happen every weekend at SLU. + 100 Well said BearerofBadNews. Well Said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 + 100 Well said BearerofBadNews. Well Said. It is still drunken hookup. And the story started with 4, then 3, then down to 2. Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Did you notice that there are TWO alleged perpetrators, and one alleged victim? And do you remember, in fact, that the Circuit Attorney made the decision not to charge THREE basketball players in connection with the alleged sexual assault on ONE girl? You don't have to read between the lines to see that this girl's allegations probably went a little further than "random drunken hookup" that went wrong. Whether her allegations are true or not or whether there is significant evidence is a different story, but I think that the kind of allegations that this girl has made are certainly things that do not happen every weekend at SLU. Eifel Tower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Eifel Tower?Wobbly H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 assuming it was all consentual drunken sex ... are all students who have consentual drunken sex in the dorms going to be suspended? I'm glad I didn't go to college and went in the military instead. I was allowed to have all the drunken consentual sex I wanted to in my dorm room. Even kinky sex. Do you still keep in touch with any of those guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 The only problem is that in admitting to being drunk they open themselves up to what I assume is going on right now: Being suspended for a year for drinking/substance abuse.Thats what I think is going on here. If they concluded a sexual assault occurred they'd have to expel them. I think they are giving them a year for drinking because they think something more may have happened but don't have the facts to find anything beyond alcohol violations. So they're coming down hard on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 It is still drunken hookup. And the story started with 4, then 3, then down to 2. Interesting... The allegations involved 3 players, with 1 other just being in the same apartment. 1 of the 3, plus the other 1 have since transferred, that's why there's 2 now. Also, there's NO way they would be facing a year for alcohol violations, absolutely no way. The punishment for that is very clear, and it's no where near as severe as what supposedly might happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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