Could Ellis mean Loe will follow?

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

if jj and fj are "not afraid of the action" it would be nice if they start keeping themselves between their man and the basket when playing defense. oh, maybe you didnt realize that basketball is played on both ends.

btw, cassity is second on the team in assists second in steals, he has blocked shots while the more athletic john and jordan have no blocks for the season. as i said last night, no doubt cassity is not doing the job shooting. but in every other aspect of the game, he is the superior player right now.

Please do not compliment KC, the guy is horrible. HORRIBLE. How many turnovers does the guy have? The past couple games he has about a 1:1 points to turnover ratio. Not to mention he just doesnt move or look like a D1 player. KC does have nice hair though,he's got that going for him. Send him to Fontbonne.

Also, JJ is very athletic and I don't expect a guy 5'9"ish to have many blocks.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Lets do a fair comparison offensively between JJ and KC

Assists / KC - 1 for every 12.15 minutes played. JJ - 1 per 11.22

Turnovers / KC - 1 for every 13.66 minutes played. JJ - 1 per 14.5

Ratio / KC - 1.12 JJ - 1.29

Points / KC - 1 for every 5.29 minutes played. JJ - 1 per 2.90

FG% / KC - .373 JJ - .383

3 % / KC - .27% JJ - .42%

Free throws. KC - 7-11 for .64% 1 attempt every 29.8 minutes. JJ - 24-34 for .71% 1 attempt per 7.3 minutes on the floor.

Offensively there is no comparison between the 2. JJ is clearly the better offensive player regardless of how you look at it. So KC is not the better player in every aspect besides shooting. He creates less assists per minute and causes more turnovers per minute than JJ to go along with scoring just over half as much per minute.

Great analysis, Skip!

[billiken_roy]

Please do not compliment KC, the guy is horrible. HORRIBLE. How many turnovers does the guy have? The past couple games he has about a 1:1 points to turnover ratio. Not to mention he just doesnt move or look like a D1 player. KC does have nice hair though,he's got that going for him. Send him to Fontbonne.

Also, JJ is very athletic and I don't expect a guy 5'9"ish to have many blocks.

obviously the steroids have affected more than your muscle tone.

[slufanskip]

good work skip. per minutes played. i can see that.

ok, now you answer the question then. why is rickma playing cassity more than twice the minutes as jordan then?

defense I would expect. I know he's called JJ out for his D numerous times. I've seen him beat off the dribble too many times. He needs to play at the same speed and intensity level defensively as he does offensively. Plus KC's height just makes him a better defensive matchup most of the time.

[slufanskip]

Skip, not saying you are wrong..just my own question here. Wouldn't be awesome to see the offensive stats for opposing player while they were being guarded by either JJ or KC.

Off topic: everyone talks about Femi's defense, but i don't see it.

hard to say, they don't generally guard the same player. However, my eyes tell me KC is the better defender right now. Here's the thing. Defense is largely effort, so a guy will be penalized more for lazy D than he will for missing shots. Lazy D is contagious. If you let JJ play while he's not giving the effort on D, how do you tell Femi he has to give a better one. Missing shots is about skill and confidence not effort. Femi's not going to intentionally miss shots because Kyle can. However, letting a guy play more despite less than his best effort on D, could and probably would carry over.

[slufanskip]

Great analysis, Skip!

Don't confuse it for an endorsement to play JJ more. If I was in charge I'd be starting Kyle at this point.

[NH]

Skip, not saying you are wrong..just my own question here. Wouldn't be awesome to see the offensive stats for opposing player while they were being guarded by either JJ or KC.

Off topic: everyone talks about Femi's defense, but i don't see it.

Let me preface my comments by saying: I love Femi and KC (no homo). I think they will both be good and I am glad they are both billikens.

They both have their strong suits and their weak suits. Femi is much stronger and I think a little more athletic. Kyle appears to have the ability to be a better shooter. Femi is more aggresive on offense and I think a better rebounder. Kyle is a better passer and is a better defender when it comes to quickness, but Femi has hm beat in terms of strength on .

Two plays in last night's game illustrate the difference in their weaknesses'

Play 1: Femi gets beat on a backdoor cut for an easy layup (2nd Half)

Play 2: Kyle's man goes right through him to the bucket for an easy layup (1st half)

Each players weakness allowed the other team an easy basket and they both neeed to improve tremendously.

On a smimialar note, as a team, our on the ball defense is pitiful. UMKC's coach consistently told his bench "drive on them." That has to change in the next two games.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

obviously the steroids have affected more than your muscle tone.

Thats what she said

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Let me preface my comments by saying: I love Femi and KC (no homo). I think they will both be good and I am glad they are both billikens.

They both have their strong suits and their weak suits. Femi is much stronger and I think a little more athletic. Kyle appears to have the ability to be a better shooter. Femi is more aggresive on offense and I think a better rebounder. Kyle is a better passer and is a better defender when it comes to quickness, but Femi has hm beat in terms of strength on .

Two plays in last night's game illustrate the difference in their weaknesses'

Play 1: Femi gets beat on a backdoor cut for an easy layup (2nd Half)

Play 2: Kyle's man goes right through him to the bucket for an easy layup (1st half)

Each players weakness allowed the other team an easy basket and they both neeed to improve tremendously.

On a smimialar note, as a team, our on the ball defense is pitiful. UMKC's coach consistently told his bench "drive on them." That has to change in the next two games.

NH= no homo?

How does Kyle appear to have the ability to be a better shooter??

Lets looks on the brightside, maybe SLU marketing can jump on the fact we have a bricklayer on the team....Maybe run some real time ads over the scoreboard and sound system for McCarthy Construction after each KC brick. If SLU could make $10 for every brick, we could really expand our endowment...think of the possibilities. To that point, yes lets start KC!

Im going to back to finding a Billiken hard hat on amazon

[MB73]

joe i totally agree and if the chicago duet's press clippings are for real kyle, femi, justin and christian are all going to be passed by. so they all need to improve. no one needs to be singled out. they all need to raise their game or risk becoming practice players next year.

Yep. When some of our border line players that do not produce see Loe, etc, coming, they will move out on their own. Ones that produce will stay. Not totally palatable since we recruited these kids to play here, but RM is bringing in more quality players every year, and every year, it is a new tryout. RM is doing what is necessary to get us to the next level. Now that Ellis is here, he certainly is on schedule. If we get Loe next yr + Chicago kids, wow, what talent. But some players that do not come thru will wind up leaving, mostly on their own. Maybe one ot two that we would rather keep will leave, a la Thompson, so there will be issues. Maybe hard to swallow. But those that do not get playing time, know they are not hitting their shots, etc, will go on their own. Tough gig. If RM stays for a long time, has fresh-soph-jr-sr's on roster, this will be minimized, but for now it will be the case.

[jimbofive]

those that do not get playing time, know they are not hitting their shots, etc, will go on their own. Tough gig. If RM stays for a long time, has fresh-soph-jr-sr's on roster, this will be minimized, but for now it will be the case.

what will happen (weaker players leaving) is really the only way to balance out the classes. next year, if we get loe, we'd have

fresh: mccall, evans, loe, reid (assuming redshirt)

soph: john, jordan, remekun, salecich, smif, ellis (assuming he plays)

jun: mitchell, conklin, reed, cassity

by my count, that's one more than even a gay baker needs: FOURTEEN DUDES.

even if loe doesn't come, if reid, cassity or smif doesn't move on after this year, then someone will be forced to the next year or we won't have a 2011 class.

reid's situation could sadly resolve itself. i'm hopeful it won't, as i think w/ more muscle he can be what kyle cassity was supposed to be and maybe more. i'd be interested to see how much coaching RM's doing on jon smif. he could really be working hard w/ him on fundamentals and conditioning, or he could recognize him as a horace dixon type and send him packing. the old "don't worry about coach yelling at you until he's not yelling anymore" adage.

cassity does play the best defense of the "bubble" players and he does get it more than the others, but his offensive contributions are COMPLETELY COMPLETELY COMPLETELY inexcusable for as many minutes as he plays. we can't ever settle for another polk out there. a good kid who just isn't a factor offensively. even if cassity is getting stops out there, he's not getting as many stops as his man is. still majerus is giving him the lion's share of the minutes. don't know what else he can do right now.

hell, even femi could be on the chopping block. i like what he brings, but he's not contributing as much as i'd like a redshirt freshman to.

someone will go. i guess we'll just worry about it when the time comes. love all the guys (no homo, i spect) but i'll take a guaranteed day one starter (Loe) over a questionable role player any day. so long as we get the good recruits honorably, which i think we will.

i don't see anything wrong w/ having tryouts even after you've made a college team. can only get better that way.

[doowop]

I have nothing against KC or anyone on the team, but if it comes down to Loe, maybe the best international prospect period next year, wanting to come here... somebody's getting a fruitbasket and great recommendation elsewhere. And I have no problem w/ that. We don't even have enough guys to practice right now. Keep on recruiting, RM.

Also, if we had that starting lineup, I mean WOW. We might see a Bills team that could actually score 75-80 per game. I don't know what the white dudes' defense will end up like, esp. w/ them being international players, but the black dudes in that lineup will have the speed and athleticism to get after it.

Fingers crossed, but just a relief to have CE here for now.

Something to think about. CS may start playing to his potential now that CE is here. He may be more comfortable now.

[doowop]

if jj and fj are "not afraid of the action" it would be nice if they start keeping themselves between their man and the basket when playing defense. oh, maybe you didnt realize that basketball is played on both ends.

btw, cassity is second on the team in assists second in steals, he has blocked shots while the more athletic john and jordan have no blocks for the season. as i said last night, no doubt cassity is not doing the job shooting. but in every other aspect of the game, he is the superior player right now.

If KC is superior then the other two out to transfer or play division II. Why would you expect JJ to block more shots than KC? I agree their defense needs to improve but I'm not sure FJ's will. It was deficient in high school.

[billiken_roy]

Why would you expect JJ to block more shots than KC? I agree their defense needs to improve but I'm not sure FJ's will. It was deficient in high school.

i dont expect jordan to block more shots than anyone on the team. but if you are going to compare what each player brings to the table, you have to lay it all out. if jordan cant stay between his man and the basket and he cant really distract a shot let alone block a shot from a defensive perspective, that is a huge deficit to overcome when looking at his available contribution.

that said, as fast and as strong as jordan is there is no reason he gets beat on the dribble. he really should be as good of an out court defender on the ball as this team has. when he decides he is going to be that, his minutes will go up and cassity and john will likely give minutes up since jordan is the better offensive player of the three.

[drkelsey55]

I can't believe this discussion. Is this the same group of people who bickered about RM running off players and now you are all trying to decide who he should run off.

I just don't get it.

[billiken_roy]

where have i said anywhere in this thread i want someone run off. i am defending cassity and merely pointing out that there are other players on the team that are struggling with aspects of the game more so than kyle is struggling. i dont want anyone to leave the billikens unless they cannot make academic requirements or they commit act(s) in public to embarrass the university (for example committing a crime).

[eastsidejoe]

I concede BRoyce, you win. I am just thankful to have the opportunity to go toe to toe with the best there ever was.

I have my opinions, you have yours.

Merry Christmas!

and merry xmas to you Rican bro.

[drkelsey55]

where have i said anywhere in this thread i want someone run off. i am defending cassity and merely pointing out that there are other players on the team that are struggling with aspects of the game more so than kyle is struggling. i dont want anyone to leave the billikens unless they cannot make academic requirements or they commit act(s) in public to embarrass the university (for example committing a crime).

Roy, I said people on this board, I know you are a person too, but I think we all know your possition on running people off (NOT). So you of all people do not have to get your dander up and sit back and enjoy the fact some one agreesw with you this year.

[billiken_roy]

[thetorch]

My two cents

John and Cassity really don't play the same position. It is difficult to compare them head to head. Cassity is a combo guard, John is a 3 in a 2's body.

Cassity is not a good on ball defender. He is very good off the ball, he rarely if ever misses an assignment. Cassity is not a good shooter. He can handle the ball some and play the point in a pinch. He can drive a little with some skill but can't finish. He is a solid passer. I think he has the ability to do some more things but not the mental capacity right now.

John is a very good on ball defender, maybe the best on the team. He is a bad off the ball defender. It seems as if he was never taught how to defend away from the ball, and he probably wasn't as McCluer North only plays zone. John can defend the post in certain matchups and do that pretty effectively. John is not a good shooter from anywhere, he is a poor ballhandler, and all his drives are adventures. John is a very good rebounder and will scrap for the ball.

Personally I think Cassity may be as good as he gets. John can get better. He has fewer obstacles to overcome. Cassity has alot of upperclassmen skills, patience, solid ball handling, good passing, smart defense, skills that you acquire as you advance in years. John hasn't had enough time to develop these. He will most likely and will be a solid player. To get any better Cassity has to learn how to shoot, and get bigger and faster. I think these skills are harder to acquire than the skills that John needs to get better.

[AlumniFan]

I can't believe this discussion. Is this the same group of people who bickered about RM running off players and now you are all trying to decide who he should run off.

I just don't get it.

I think some of us are just keeping our mouths shut....

[slu72]

I think some of us are just keeping our mouths shut....

If Loe signs on the dotted line.... someone will be moving on, but that decision will be made by RM and the individual(s). Obviously, RM will have the final word. Yeah, none of us want to see kids told, "sorry... but there's the door.", but it's not personal it's doing business.

[Chicago Billiken]

Don't know if this has been thrown around yet but I thought I saw where KC was quite the baseball player in high school. Could SLU give him an athletic scholarship to play baseball and he continues to be on the basketball team as well as play baseball?

Official Billikens.com sponsor of Kevin Shortal

[kmbilliken]

Don't know if this has been thrown around yet but I thought I saw where KC was quite the baseball player in high school. Could SLU give him an athletic scholarship to play baseball and he continues to be on the basketball team as well as play baseball?

Official Billikens.com sponsor of Kevin Shortal

I'm sure the baseball coach, who isn't given a full compliment of scholarships to begin with, will go right along with that idea.

[Majerus Magic]

If Loe signs on the dotted line.... someone will be moving on, but that decision will be made by RM and the individual(s). Obviously, RM will have the final word. Yeah, none of us want to see kids told, "sorry... but there's the door.", but it's not personal it's doing business.

I'm glad you said if, 72. I feel like some people think its a foregone conclusion that Loe will sign with the Bills. He has some pretty big fish after him, so if we got him I think it would be a major coup. I don't understand all the talk about when Loe signs and what will happen. We are a long way off from that.