WH Begins his Season Previews On The A-10 Board

[thetorch]

For those of you who have read WH's stuff platitudes are certainly not needed.

WH Ranking The Coaches

WH ranks Majerus 4th in the A-10 behind Miller, Martelli, and Dunphy.

"4)Rick Majerus, St. Louis. Majerus gets a high ranking based on past performance, not on results of his first season in the A-10. The Billikens were competitive despite a thin roster, but it remains to be seen whether Majerus still has the coaching magic. A very good sign is the incoming recruiting class, one of the best in the league on paper."

WH's All Conference Teams

WH ranks Lisch as 2nd team all conference as well as all defensive team. Liddell is 3rd team with Cotto and Thompson being mentioned for the Newcomer team

"SECOND TEAM

Kevin Lisch, St. Louis – Senior guard is a topnotch defender, terrific 3-point shooter, good ball-handler and a player who’s very dangerous in crunch time.

THIRD TEAM

Tommie Liddell, St. Louis – Versatile 6-4 wingmen bounces back from a difficult junior season. Liddell can do virtually everything on the court and is a darkhorse for POY if he meets his considerable potential.

ALL-NEWCOMER TEAM

Ruben Cotto, St Louis (if eligible) – Lights-out shooter just what the offensively challenged Billikens need.

Alternative: Brett Thompson, St. Louis – The 6-10 frosh will be thrown into the fire, but he’s already bigger than most A-10 frontcourt players and has excellent skills"

[Taj79]

I was told by a pretty reliable source that Willie Reed was the last player with eligibility issues (NCAA clearinghouse-the Christian Academy attendance). He was reported to have cleared late last week. This "if eligible" issue on Cotto does not exist.

Funny, if you talk to a Xavier fan when X isn't exactly "right" as I have on occasions (the last being when the Bills were the four seed in Cincy and Xavier had a loaded group with Doehlman for one) --- Miller is an idiot. Some even said last year that they wanted him to go to Indiana. Some sadi no. This was said on the boards (as in Boardwalk). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I dont' believe that if this is based on Xs adn Os, that Miller stacks up with the three behind him. Sure, he's won a lot but is that because of him or the pipeline he stepped into? I mean X has been pretty strong, going back to Midwesstern City days. Their coaching alums were even more impressive than their NBA alums what with Gillen, Prosser, Matta, and so on. I'd say that WH has Miller there based on record, not so much as coaching ability which I would give to the other three right now based on longevity.

Subjectivity has its limits.

[Pistol]

I was told by a pretty reliable source that Willie Reed was the last player with eligibility issues (NCAA clearinghouse-the Christian Academy attendance). He was reported to have cleared late last week. This "if eligible" issue on Cotto does not exist.

Funny, if you talk to a Xavier fan when X isn't exactly "right" as I have on occasions (the last being when the Bills were the four seed in Cincy and Xavier had a loaded group with Doehlman for one) --- Miller is an idiot. Some even said last year that they wanted him to go to Indiana. Some sadi no. This was said on the boards (as in Boardwalk). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I dont' believe that if this is based on Xs adn Os, that Miller stacks up with the three behind him. Sure, he's won a lot but is that because of him or the pipeline he stepped into? I mean X has been pretty strong, going back to Midwesstern City days. Their coaching alums were even more impressive than their NBA alums what with Gillen, Prosser, Matta, and so on. I'd say that WH has Miller there based on record, not so much as coaching ability which I would give to the other three right now based on longevity.

Subjectivity has its limits.

I would be shocked if Reed is held up much longer. I think it's been a tough combination of going to that two-bit "Christian Academy" and the fact that the NCAA clearinghouse has been months behind schedule. His case is one where he got screwed once pretty bad and doesn't deserve it again. All our guys should be fine for this year.

Interesting take on Miller. My girlfriend and her family are huge XU fans and have been season ticket holders for decades (both parents are alums) and they took a little while to warm up to Miller, but at this point I don't know anyone who isn't sold on him. Miller doesn't have the warm personality that instantly endears people to coaches, which is pretty much the only knock on him I can think of. He's put together four solid seasons in his first four years of increasing success, going deeper into the tournament each year since missing it his first year. He's proven himself to be a great recruiter, has over a .700 winning percentage, and has stayed with the program when his phone probably rings quite a bit after each year. It's tough to compete with a couple of XU's past coaches in terms of likeability- Gillen was seen as a hard worker and down-to-earth and the architect of the program, while Prosser was a class act, great guy, outstanding recruiter, and won quite a few games at Xavier.

Miller does benefit, though, from the fact that most Xavier fans tend to see Matta as a two-faced opportunist. He hasn't stayed anywhere more than 3 years in his career, and now is at big, bad OSU (a plum coaching job if there ever was one, I might add). I know the nature of the game is climbing the ladder and program-hopping, but he's lost all respect from Xavier fans.

I'd be curious to hear xfactor's take on Miller.

[jimbofive]

I was told by a pretty reliable source that Willie Reed was the last player with eligibility issues (NCAA clearinghouse-the Christian Academy attendance). He was reported to have cleared late last week. This "if eligible" issue on Cotto does not exist.

Funny, if you talk to a Xavier fan when X isn't exactly "right" as I have on occasions (the last being when the Bills were the four seed in Cincy and Xavier had a loaded group with Doehlman for one) --- Miller is an idiot. Some even said last year that they wanted him to go to Indiana. Some sadi no. This was said on the boards (as in Boardwalk). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I dont' believe that if this is based on Xs adn Os, that Miller stacks up with the three behind him. Sure, he's won a lot but is that because of him or the pipeline he stepped into? I mean X has been pretty strong, going back to Midwesstern City days. Their coaching alums were even more impressive than their NBA alums what with Gillen, Prosser, Matta, and so on. I'd say that WH has Miller there based on record, not so much as coaching ability which I would give to the other three right now based on longevity.

Subjectivity has its limits.

That's the first thing I though. No way Miller's the No. 1 coach in the A-10. I win 20 games with that talent.

[brianstl]

That's the first thing I though. No way Miller's the No. 1 coach in the A-10. I win 20 games with that talent.

A big part of college coaching is getting that talent. XU fans have always been hard on their coaches. I remember as a young kid going to the MCC tournament with my dad and XU fans bitching that Grawer was a superior game coach to Gillen. They were saying that Gillen only was winning the conference because of the talent he got. I remember thinking at the time I would kill to be going to the tournament every year like they were with a coach that was getting that kind of talent.

[billiken_roy]

miller has obviously proven he is a strong recruiter. and in this day of college basketball, if you can only have one outstanding quality, recruiting is probably the one to have.

as to his x's and o's, i cant see how he can get the overall #1 coaching rank. rickma outcoached him last year and if not for polk not putting a body on that kid crashing the boards, we win that game.

imo, i'd put miller fourth and move everyone else up one. martelli is the best coach in the conference.

[brianstl]

miller has obviously proven he is a strong recruiter. and in this day of college basketball, if you can only have one outstanding quality, recruiting is probably the one to have.

as to his x's and o's, i cant see how he can get the overall #1 coaching rank. rickma outcoached him last year and if not for polk not putting a body on that kid crashing the boards, we win that game.

imo, i'd put miller fourth and move everyone else up one. martelli is the best coach in the conference.

I think Martelli gets too much credit. I think Dunphy is underated, but I ubderstand that he is still new to the conference. I think WH really underated Mooney. Gregory does less with more than maybe any coach in the conference.

[Pistol]

miller has obviously proven he is a strong recruiter. and in this day of college basketball, if you can only have one outstanding quality, recruiting is probably the one to have.

as to his x's and o's, i cant see how he can get the overall #1 coaching rank. rickma outcoached him last year and if not for polk not putting a body on that kid crashing the boards, we win that game.

imo, i'd put miller fourth and move everyone else up one. martelli is the best coach in the conference.

You guys are harsh. Xavier was 14-2 in conference. The second place team was 11-5. The players were Miller's recruits, either as head coach or top assistant. They won 30 games and went to the Elite Eight. I can't think of any better measure of a coach than wins, and Miller's got the rest of the conference beat in that column by a decent margin. How can you scrutinize X's and O's? Do you know enough about his game plans to say he's not as good as at least three other coaches in the conference? Whatever he's doing is obviously working, and I have to think he's the top coach in the A10 until someone proves otherwise.

[kshoe]

A big part of college coaching is getting that talent. XU fans have always been hard on their coaches. I remember as a young kid going to the MCC tournament with my dad and XU fans bitching that Grawer was a superior game coach to Gillen. They were saying that Gillen only was winning the conference because of the talent he got. I remember thinking at the time I would kill to be going to the tournament every year like they were with a coach that was getting that kind of talent.

Exactly. Count me in the group that would vote Miller #1 in the conference. Now an argument could be made that you'd rather have a guy like Martelli who would probably never leave your program while Miller is definitely a flight risk but I don't think that should factor into the voting of best coach.

[slufanskip]

Exactly. Count me in the group that would vote Miller #1 in the conference. Now an argument could be made that you'd rather have a guy like Martelli who would probably never leave your program while Miller is definitely a flight risk but I don't think that should factor into the voting of best coach.

I agree. I'd call Miller the best when you consider the overall package. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Martelli's results don't match his reputation.

[3star_recruit]

This isn't strictly a list of coaching ability. WH says in the very first paragraph that this is the order in which he would hire the coaches. Based on his youth and the inability of any other coaches to put 20 win seasons together, Miller's #1 by default.

[Taj79]

Thanks 3-star --- all I read was the intiating post by torch, I will admit to NOT reading the WH article in full. This does not change much in terms of the debate as far as I'm concerned, however, based on WH's statement about which coach he "would hire" then I'd agree fully with his #1. Based on this also, I don't think the next three even qualify at that point. Martelli and Majerus are probably looking to head to pasture, and Dunphy ain't exactly a spring chicken either.

Hiring is a whole different issue and if that is the case, I'd probably look to Miller, Ford (who of course left Umass), and Mooney. That would be for taking an up-and-comer. I don't think Gregory is on this list anymore because the bloom is off his rose. He's been at Dayton for what, six years now, and I think he might have gone to the NCAAs in an early year if any, and those usually aren't the incoming coach's players. I know he went to the NIT last year but I don't care about anything short of the NCAAs. Chris Wright is a monster. And Brian Roberts was a good to great player. Gregory has never subsidized those two players much. So the quesiton is can he recruit? I think so, maybe he can't coach. Lutz isn't going anywhere. Neither is Barton. The La Salle guy is not an up-and-comer. Whittenberg almost ran himself out of Fordham last year. The Duquesne guy is a program fixer, last I heard, so if you need that, he might be your man. The Bonnies are nowhere. And Hobbs has lost the luster ala Whittenberg.

So on that end, I'd agree with Miller.

[ACE]

Thanks 3-star --- all I read was the intiating post by torch, I will admit to NOT reading the WH article in full. This does not change much in terms of the debate as far as I'm concerned, however, based on WH's statement about which coach he "would hire" then I'd agree fully with his #1. Based on this also, I don't think the next three even qualify at that point. Martelli and Majerus are probably looking to head to pasture, and Dunphy ain't exactly a spring chicken either.

Hiring is a whole different issue and if that is the case, I'd probably look to Miller, Ford (who of course left Umass), and Mooney. That would be for taking an up-and-comer. I don't think Gregory is on this list anymore because the bloom is off his rose. He's been at Dayton for what, six years now, and I think he might have gone to the NCAAs in an early year if any, and those usually aren't the incoming coach's players. I know he went to the NIT last year but I don't care about anything short of the NCAAs. Chris Wright is a monster. And Brian Roberts was a good to great player. Gregory has never subsidized those two players much. So the quesiton is can he recruit? I think so, maybe he can't coach. Lutz isn't going anywhere. Neither is Barton. The La Salle guy is not an up-and-comer. Whittenberg almost ran himself out of Fordham last year. The Duquesne guy is a program fixer, last I heard, so if you need that, he might be your man. The Bonnies are nowhere. And Hobbs has lost the luster ala Whittenberg.

So on that end, I'd agree with Miller.

Coulda had Gregory

[MusicCityBilliken]

Thanks 3-star --- all I read was the intiating post by torch, I will admit to NOT reading the WH article in full. This does not change much in terms of the debate as far as I'm concerned, however, based on WH's statement about which coach he "would hire" then I'd agree fully with his #1. Based on this also, I don't think the next three even qualify at that point. Martelli and Majerus are probably looking to head to pasture, and Dunphy ain't exactly a spring chicken either.

Hiring is a whole different issue and if that is the case, I'd probably look to Miller, Ford (who of course left Umass), and Mooney. That would be for taking an up-and-comer. I don't think Gregory is on this list anymore because the bloom is off his rose. He's been at Dayton for what, six years now, and I think he might have gone to the NCAAs in an early year if any, and those usually aren't the incoming coach's players. I know he went to the NIT last year but I don't care about anything short of the NCAAs. Chris Wright is a monster. And Brian Roberts was a good to great player. Gregory has never subsidized those two players much. So the quesiton is can he recruit? I think so, maybe he can't coach. Lutz isn't going anywhere. Neither is Barton. The La Salle guy is not an up-and-comer. Whittenberg almost ran himself out of Fordham last year. The Duquesne guy is a program fixer, last I heard, so if you need that, he might be your man. The Bonnies are nowhere. And Hobbs has lost the luster ala Whittenberg.

So on that end, I'd agree with Miller.

I agree with Miller on his short tenure at XU.

But, you have to give Martelli his due. What, he been at St J's 13 years. Has a sweet 16 and an elite 8 under his belt. Not bad when you consider he done it at St. J's. They play in a crummy band box and in the A10. Granted he has a fantastic recruiting area of Phila and Northern NJ (probably the best area in the country) but he has to compete with all those Big East schools. When I visit my brother on Long Island it seems they have at least one BE game, if not more on the TV a night. Another thing is his loyalty to St. J's, the guy is a class act.

[ACE]

For those of you who have read WH's stuff platitudes are certainly not needed.

WH Ranking The Coaches

WH ranks Majerus 4th in the A-10 behind Miller, Martelli, and Dunphy.

"4)Rick Majerus, St. Louis. Majerus gets a high ranking based on past performance, not on results of his first season in the A-10. The Billikens were competitive despite a thin roster, but it remains to be seen whether Majerus still has the coaching magic. A very good sign is the incoming recruiting class, one of the best in the league on paper."

WH's All Conference Teams

WH ranks Lisch as 2nd team all conference as well as all defensive team. Liddell is 3rd team with Cotto and Thompson being mentioned for the Newcomer team

"SECOND TEAM

Kevin Lisch, St. Louis – Senior guard is a topnotch defender, terrific 3-point shooter, good ball-handler and a player who’s very dangerous in crunch time.

THIRD TEAM

Tommie Liddell, St. Louis – Versatile 6-4 wingmen bounces back from a difficult junior season. Liddell can do virtually everything on the court and is a darkhorse for POY if he meets his considerable potential.

ALL-NEWCOMER TEAM

Ruben Cotto, St Louis (if eligible) – Lights-out shooter just what the offensively challenged Billikens need.

Alternative: Brett Thompson, St. Louis – The 6-10 frosh will be thrown into the fire, but he’s already bigger than most A-10 frontcourt players and has excellent skills"

A little surprised that Cotto is getting more attention than KM. I'm excited to see both play. Sounds like they each bring something a little different. Throw in Paul who could be a nice high energy role player and we have the makings of a pretty exciting backcourt.

[kevinfootes]

Coulda had Gregory

...or Angres Thorpe.

[udfan]

Hiring is a whole different issue and if that is the case, I'd probably look to Miller, Ford (who of course left Umass), and Mooney. That would be for taking an up-and-comer. I don't think Gregory is on this list anymore because the bloom is off his rose. He's been at Dayton for what, six years now, and I think he might have gone to the NCAAs in an early year if any, and those usually aren't the incoming coach's players. I know he went to the NIT last year but I don't care about anything short of the NCAAs. Chris Wright is a monster. And Brian Roberts was a good to great player. Gregory has never subsidized those two players much. So the quesiton is can he recruit? I think so, maybe he can't coach. Lutz isn't going anywhere. Neither is Barton. The La Salle guy is not an up-and-comer. Whittenberg almost ran himself out of Fordham last year. The Duquesne guy is a program fixer, last I heard, so if you need that, he might be your man. The Bonnies are nowhere. And Hobbs has lost the luster ala Whittenberg.

Consider that Gregory had all-time school record start at 14-1 with both Roberts and Wright in the line-up. He didn't have that duo again until the quarterfinals of the NIT at OSU, and Wright was not yet ready to play full minutes. He also won a national coaching award for that start and UD peaked at something like #14 in the national rankings. Various players were out for illness (over a period of several weeks while Wright was out) during a flu epidemic on campus and in the Dayton area. Charles Little, the 2nd leading rebounder and 4th leading scorer also broke a bone in his foot during that stretch which had him out for a few games and hampered for the season. This put the burden on Roberts and Johnson who both played through periods of illness during that stretch.

So poor coaching or a confluence of a lot of unfortunate circumstances?

[brianstl]

Consider that Gregory had all-time school record start at 14-1 with both Roberts and Wright in the line-up. He didn't have that duo again until the quarterfinals of the NIT at OSU, and Wright was not yet ready to play full minutes. He also won a national coaching award for that start and UD peaked at something like #14 in the national rankings. Various players were out for illness (over a period of several weeks while Wright was out) during a flu epidemic on campus and in the Dayton area. Charles Little, the 2nd leading rebounder and 4th leading scorer also broke a bone in his foot during that stretch which had him out for a few games and hampered for the season. This put the burden on Roberts and Johnson who both played through periods of illness during that stretch.

So poor coaching or a confluence of a lot of unfortunate circumstances?

There is always an excuse for Dayton fans.

[udfan]

There is always an excuse for Dayton fans.

When Majerus doesn't have good players, I don't expect huge results. When Gregory's line-up is severely limited, I wouldn't blame it on coaching either. Either way, head to head agains Saint Louis has been good to the Flyers lately.

[brianstl]

When Majerus doesn't have good players, I don't expect huge results. When Gregory's line-up is severely limited, I wouldn't blame it on coaching either. Either way, head to head agains Saint Louis has been good to the Flyers lately.

I guess Gregory's line-up has been seriously limited for the past four seasons. I guess the only time his line-up wasn't severly limited was his first year when it was loaded with Purnell's players. Gregory has done less with more than just about any coach in the country.

[ACE]

I guess Gregory's line-up has been seriously limited for the past four seasons. I guess the only time his line-up wasn't severly limited was his first year when it was loaded with Purnell's players. Gregory has done less with more than just about any coach in the country.

Billiken nation continues to be haunted by the fact that we "coulda had Gregory"

[udfan]

I guess Gregory's line-up has been seriously limited for the past four seasons. I guess the only time his line-up wasn't severly limited was his first year when it was loaded with Purnell's players. Gregory has done less with more than just about any coach in the country.

Maybe you can give me an example of a year where Gregory underacheived based on the talent available to him that year. Purnell left a great senior class for Gregory's first year, but if you are familiar with the players in the next 3 classes, maybe you can help me understand how talented those teams were.

[Taj79]

Just to point out --- and not cast rocks as we seem to be in the same position this year as the following statement --- but Gregory went 14-1 against a somewhat weak schedule. I've made this statement before so its nothing new --- but no one will come to Dayton to play. Those are the facts. I think they got Pitt last year but that was pretty much it as I recall. Its just a fact of life at the mid-major level. We might expect the same with the 'Fetz as also has been noted. Now, I will give UD their due ---- they have played at Louisville, and against both Kentucky and Purdue at those dreaded "neutral" sites and have won so more power to them. I wish we did the same. But for the most part, nothing worthwhile ever comes into Dayton and they end up with an annual home schedule out of conference that is mush.

I always expect Dayton, even in a bad or average year, to finish the non-conference schedule with double-digit wins and two to four losses. That's an average year for them. On a good year, with two players like Roberts and Wright, you see 14 and 1. On really bad years, its a near-.500 record. The same might have been said of Rhoide Island last year. They peaked at what, #17, came into St. Louis and lost to us, and finished like near .500 in the conference.

I'm glad we don't hve Gregory, frankly. Not that impressed. But even if he was here, even if they had taken him over Brad, and he did the same thing record-wise as Brad, he'd be gone if Majerus was still the wild card in that particular card game. But that's pure speculation with no real answer in sight.

[thetorch]

WH picks Billikens 11th

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10...11th-place.html

[NH]

WH picks Billikens 11th

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10...11th-place.html

I disagree with the ranking of 11. I think by conference play we will have improved a ton and will go 9-7 o 8-8. I do think he was a little too generous in OOC. If we go 9-4 Ill be happy