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What a roller coaster this season became. Play good/great in some games ( X, UMASS, Richmond, St. Joe) and absolutely stink up the joint for quite a few others (GW, @Day, DUQ., St. B, Kent St.). They were really hard to figure out how good they were or could have been-one thing we do know they were the personification of "inconsistent."

Overall, I would have to say I was disappointed in the record (16-15), but encouraged about what may lie ahead. I thought a team returning 4 starters from a 20 win (19 for the anti-BS crowd) season, including our 2 star all-conference level players would do better than they did. This expectation was heightened by the addition of a HOF quality coach. It is difficult to comprehend how the above combination (KL/TL/LM/Rickma) could lay as many eggs as it did-all-time NCAA record for fewest points in a game & blowout losses to end the regular season against fair to poor teams.

As our local rag, the Post-Disgrace (sorry Bonwich, I enjoy your reviews) does at the end of a teams season, I thought it appropriate to assign grades-they are in school- to the team and coaches, so here goes.

KL/LM------- A- Only a lack of consistency prevented something higher. Would have hated to see this team w/o these two players. Will never forget the final 1:30 of the X game!

TL/DB------ B+ Same problem as for the above twosome, but their highs were not as frequent as the A- grouping. TL just needs to play hard ALL the time, and DB was only held back by his injury recovery.

BH/DP----- B- Good effort just about all the time and contributed big-time in a few games. It would have helped if BH would have played more last year and if DP had worked harder on his shot during his 4 years at SLU. Both made their major contributions this year on defense.

BE/PE----- C+ Both had a fair number of good games, but an equal, if not greater, number of not-so-good games. Probably did what we should have expected for players new to the program. Both showed promise for the future.

AK/MR/AM/DM--- Incomplete. Very little opportunity to show what they had. Given the promising group of 08-09 recruits, it is likely best for this foursome to move on if they have a real interest in playing time.

NOTE: I tend to grade 18-22 yr. old players somewhat liberally. However, my "curve" for the well-paid coaching staff is somewhat tougher.

Coaching staff---- I felt it was impossible to come up with one grade for the RM staff, so I'll break it down into piece parts.

In season-technical------ C. I truly expected more, and maybe my expectations were too high, but I see RM as one of the elite college coaches and I didn't see that level of impact on the team. As mentioned above games likes GW, Kt. St., @ Dayton, Duq. & St. B just should NOT have happened-you might be able to explain away one or two of those as bad nights for a bunch of young men, but not all of them, and not the last two games of the regular season. For whatever reason, RM and his Assts. did not make the impact I believe they should have made.

In season-leadership----- D/C+. The D is for the early part of the year when he publicly trashed some of the players and seemed to be losing them. The C+ is for the 2nd half of the year when he seemed to "get it" that all his negative comments were not having the intended effect and, therefore, he took a "kinder and gentler. approach which seemed to be more effective.

Public relations------ C. Rick was a real disappointment here. I assumed, wrongly, that his time at ESPN would have made him sensitive to the PR aspects of his job, but that didn't seem to happen. Shutting out the beat writer and radio announcers in my estimation is just stupid. Refusing to appear on the postgame radio show as ALL his predecessors did also showed his disdain for the local media and the fan base. Finally, on the minus side of the equation, he does not seem to realize that the Billiken Club is made up of the most important part of Billiken BB fans----those that contribute $$$ to the program. He made his feelings clear about Billiken Club appearances when he was interviewed by FC on a Sunday night Sports Plus show, and, as I said at the time, we have seen the last of RM at a BC meeting. On the positive side, his meeting with the fans and students at Busch prior to the start of the season and his willingness to make an appearance on a local radio show on a weekly basis were both pluses, as was his sending an Asst. Coach (usually PB) to be on the postgame radio show.

Recruiting------- A+ While we haven't seen next year's recruits, all indications are that RM & staff have hit a home run with this group and hopefully with any Spring recruits. The last time we even approached the anticipated quality of next year's additions was in the RG group which included EC/JW/SH and others. Obviously, its been a long time since Billiken fans were able to look forward to a recruiting class that has the potential to have such a positive impact.

Overall------ B. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any D1 program so this positive has the most impact on an overall grade in my estimation. Also, I believe many of the more negative parts of my grading of the coaches are likely to improve as better players come into the program.

Again, in summary, I am excited about the future direction of the program, if somewhat disappointed in this year's results.

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I like DP a lot, but for as many goose eggs as he laid versus minutes played, you've got to give him a D or an F. No two ways about it. Basketball games are won by putting the ball in the basket, and DP just couldn't do it. Don't care to dissect the others as much; that's the only one that really jumped out at me.

I really think all grades were inflated, except for DB, he's the man forever now, in my eyes, given his situation. I think the average grade for the players has to come out to how you grade the season in general and your average grade is a B or so. For me, this season was a C or C- at best. Don't get me wrong, I think the guys did the best they could. But for where I'd like to see us, we underperformed pretty badly this year, as per usual. And there were several flat out embarrassing performances. But that's just my opinion.

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Pretty fair grades for the players. However, I would make a few changes. I think LM may have slipped to a B+ with his lackluster play down the stretch, but then again you can't overlook that he was the heart and soul of the team. I would most definitely give DB an A for his play this year. He superseded everyone's expectations by far. Consider this talking to DB, he said that he was told by a doctor that his injured knee is the equivalent of the knee of a 60 year old war veteran. What a courageous effort by a great guy! BH is another that I would change. B- represents ever so slightly above average and there is no way that one can consider BH an average D-1 basketball player. All year he exhibited bad hands and a general lack of athleticism that really hurt is come conference time.

Finally, I think your grades for the coaching staff are a little unfair. I think everyone underestimated how difficult coaching changes are for everyone involved. Sure we lost some bad games, but the future is looking bright. I look forward to truly seeing the Majerus genius over the next several years!

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Finally, I think your grades for the coaching staff are a little unfair. I think everyone underestimated how difficult coaching changes are for everyone involved. Sure we lost some bad games, but the future is looking bright. I look forward to truly seeing the Majerus genius over the next several years!

This was just an f***ed up transition year. Probably the biggest surprise was how we could stay with a Pitt and then go to GW and lay a goose egg! Hello, something was not right. Most likely the roller coaster ride was due to failed expectations both on the part of the coaches and the players. I think there was a tremendous amount of confusion as to just what RM was looking for from these kids. And equally confusing was what they were looking for from him. He's a volatile off the wall genius. Not all genius is understood immediately. I mean really e=mc2? Who got that right away? Hell, I still don't know what it means. But this much is clear, it takes a great deal of commitment and passion from the players to win big in D1 hoops. RM knows this, because he's done it. Billy Donovan even said it about his Gators. And he's got what, 2-3 McD AA's playing for him? But if they don't bring it on both sides of the ball with Psycho T like enthusiasm they're likely going to disappoint. No matter the talent level. And speaking of talent, face it we didn't have it in abundance. No need to say any more about that, since it appears we are getting an injection of talent next year. Now will those kids lay it all on the line and do what's necessary to get W's? That's why RM gets the big bucks. It's his job to sell them on what it takes. I still think the most we can expect next year is more consistency, largely because of TL and KL, and no more embarassing losses. NIT? Maybe. NCAA? Hey anything's possible.

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if you're not pleased with majerus, fine. but give credit where credit is due. the only reason why danny brown was who he was this year was because majerus knew how to utilize him, same with bryce and paul eckerle. i can't imagine how much better off we are now than we were one year ago at this time.

Finally, I think your grades for the coaching staff are a little unfair. I think everyone underestimated how difficult coaching changes are for everyone involved. Sure we lost some bad games, but the future is looking bright. I look forward to truly seeing the Majerus genius over the next several years!

This was just an f***ed up transition year. Probably the biggest surprise was how we could stay with a Pitt and then go to GW and lay a goose egg! Hello, something was not right. Most likely the roller coaster ride was due to failed expectations both on the part of the coaches and the players. I think there was a tremendous amount of confusion as to just what RM was looking for from these kids. And equally confusing was what they were looking for from him. He's a volatile off the wall genius. Not all genius is understood immediately. I mean really e=mc2? Who got that right away? Hell, I still don't know what it means. But this much is clear, it takes a great deal of commitment and passion from the players to win big in D1 hoops. RM knows this, because he's done it. Billy Donovan even said it about his Gators. And he's got what, 2-3 McD AA's playing for him? But if they don't bring it on both sides of the ball with Psycho T like enthusiasm they're likely going to disappoint. No matter the talent level. And speaking of talent, face it we didn't have it in abundance. No need to say any more about that, since it appears we are getting an injection of talent next year. Now will those kids lay it all on the line and do what's necessary to get W's? That's why RM gets the big bucks. It's his job to sell them on what it takes. I still think the most we can expect next year is more consistency, largely because of TL and KL, and no more embarassing losses. NIT? Maybe. NCAA? Hey anything's possible.

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What a roller coaster this season became. Play good/great in some games ( X, UMASS, Richmond, St. Joe) and absolutely stink up the joint for quite a few others (GW, @Day, DUQ., St. B, Kent St.). They were really hard to figure out how good they were or could have been-one thing we do know they were the personification of "inconsistent."

Overall, I would have to say I was disappointed in the record (16-15), but encouraged about what may lie ahead. I thought a team returning 4 starters from a 20 win (19 for the anti-BS crowd) season, including our 2 star all-conference level players would do better than they did. This expectation was heightened by the addition of a HOF quality coach. It is difficult to comprehend how the above combination (KL/TL/LM/Rickma) could lay as many eggs as it did-all-time NCAA record for fewest points in a game & blowout losses to end the regular season against fair to poor teams.

As our local rag, the Post-Disgrace (sorry Bonwich, I enjoy your reviews) does at the end of a teams season, I thought it appropriate to assign grades-they are in school- to the team and coaches, so here goes.

KL/LM------- A- Only a lack of consistency prevented something higher. Would have hated to see this team w/o these two players. Will never forget the final 1:30 of the X game!

TL/DB------ B+ Same problem as for the above twosome, but their highs were not as frequent as the A- grouping. TL just needs to play hard ALL the time, and DB was only held back by his injury recovery.

BH/DP----- B- Good effort just about all the time and contributed big-time in a few games. It would have helped if BH would have played more last year and if DP had worked harder on his shot during his 4 years at SLU. Both made their major contributions this year on defense.

BE/PE----- C+ Both had a fair number of good games, but an equal, if not greater, number of not-so-good games. Probably did what we should have expected for players new to the program. Both showed promise for the future.

AK/MR/AM/DM--- Incomplete. Very little opportunity to show what they had. Given the promising group of 08-09 recruits, it is likely best for this foursome to move on if they have a real interest in playing time.

NOTE: I tend to grade 18-22 yr. old players somewhat liberally. However, my "curve" for the well-paid coaching staff is somewhat tougher.

Coaching staff---- I felt it was impossible to come up with one grade for the RM staff, so I'll break it down into piece parts.

In season-technical------ C. I truly expected more, and maybe my expectations were too high, but I see RM as one of the elite college coaches and I didn't see that level of impact on the team. As mentioned above games likes GW, Kt. St., @ Dayton, Duq. & St. B just should NOT have happened-you might be able to explain away one or two of those as bad nights for a bunch of young men, but not all of them, and not the last two games of the regular season. For whatever reason, RM and his Assts. did not make the impact I believe they should have made.

In season-leadership----- D/C+. The D is for the early part of the year when he publicly trashed some of the players and seemed to be losing them. The C+ is for the 2nd half of the year when he seemed to "get it" that all his negative comments were not having the intended effect and, therefore, he took a "kinder and gentler. approach which seemed to be more effective.

Public relations------ C. Rick was a real disappointment here. I assumed, wrongly, that his time at ESPN would have made him sensitive to the PR aspects of his job, but that didn't seem to happen. Shutting out the beat writer and radio announcers in my estimation is just stupid. Refusing to appear on the postgame radio show as ALL his predecessors did also showed his disdain for the local media and the fan base. Finally, on the minus side of the equation, he does not seem to realize that the Billiken Club is made up of the most important part of Billiken BB fans----those that contribute $$$ to the program. He made his feelings clear about Billiken Club appearances when he was interviewed by FC on a Sunday night Sports Plus show, and, as I said at the time, we have seen the last of RM at a BC meeting. On the positive side, his meeting with the fans and students at Busch prior to the start of the season and his willingness to make an appearance on a local radio show on a weekly basis were both pluses, as was his sending an Asst. Coach (usually PB) to be on the postgame radio show.

Recruiting------- A+ While we haven't seen next year's recruits, all indications are that RM & staff have hit a home run with this group and hopefully with any Spring recruits. The last time we even approached the anticipated quality of next year's additions was in the RG group which included EC/JW/SH and others. Obviously, its been a long time since Billiken fans were able to look forward to a recruiting class that has the potential to have such a positive impact.

Overall------ B. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any D1 program so this positive has the most impact on an overall grade in my estimation. Also, I believe many of the more negative parts of my grading of the coaches are likely to improve as better players come into the program.

Again, in summary, I am excited about the future direction of the program, if somewhat disappointed in this year's results.

BH and DP a B- ?????, surely you jest. C- or D+ at best. They both ranked near the bottom of our league. I wish you were one of my professors.

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BH and DP a B- ?????, surely you jest. C- or D+ at best. They both ranked near the bottom of our league. I wish you were one of my professors.

agree entirely. Good guys but come on.

Also, looking at the grades, the lowest is a Cand the team went 16-15 and was record breakingly bad in some games! No one deserves an A with the uneven performances this year. Love KL and the Xavier game was brilliant. However, how that same guy could be on the floor at GW is beyond me.

Team grade a C-

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agree entirely. Good guys but come on.

Also, looking at the grades, the lowest is a Cand the team went 16-15 and was record breakingly bad in some games! No one deserves an A with the uneven performances this year. Love KL and the Xavier game was brilliant. However, how that same guy could be on the floor at GW is beyond me.

Team grade a C-

Yeah, grading the players and the coaching staff is purely subjective. I would simply give the season a C. Just barely above average and a bit below expectations from the start. I agree that coming off a 20 win season, many expected a little more or about the same. However, we need to remember that RM brought in basically a whole new coaching staff and a totally different philosophy. So with that said, this season was all about RM getting acclimated back into CBB life. The next few years will tell if he really can bring SLU to the promise land!! I do feel bad for the seniors as they were put in a tough situation with a new coach and new system.

Oh, BH and DP a B-? You have got to be kidding me!!! I would give Bryce a C- simply for his presence around the basket and ability to block shots. Too slow and no offense. Dwayne gets a D+. Yes, great hustle and decent ball handling skills but no offense whatsoever and marginal defense! Teams dared him to shoot and he never did. Disappointing that his shot got worse over a 4 yr. period.

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Way too high of grades for the players. I like KL and TL as much as anyone but A- and B+ for a season which included the 20 point GW game, the 40 point disaster at Kent State, the 30 point drubbing at Dayton and the poor performances against the Bonnies and Duquesne. Add to that, only 16 wins. When the top 4 players have grades of A- and B+ for this season, makes me wonder what the grades will be like when we actually have a good team. Also, again not to be too negative on TL and KL, but they were not all conference players and they disappeared at the end of the season while DB played only half the season. Don't get me wrong, they played with alot of heart and things were not all their fault that we had no depth and completely lacked any type of inside game, but don't believe you can ignore everything else and give them such high marks.

Personally, I am not really disappointed with this year's results. Last year, we won 20 games (19 Division 1 games including the late tip-in win over MSU) with IV in the middle. IV's senior year was disappointing in that we had expected more out of him but would have welcomed such a performance this year. This year, of course, we won 16 games including many close games (2 overtime losses to Dayton). With a break here or there, we could have equaled last year's wins. Not a big deal since last year was not really so good either. In any event, 3 less wins without any inside game to speak of and introducing a new coach and system is really not bad.

Looking forward to next year. Go Bills.

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if you're not pleased with majerus, fine. but give credit where credit is due. the only reason why danny brown was who he was this year was because majerus knew how to utilize him, same with bryce and paul eckerle. i can't imagine how much better off we are now than we were one year ago at this time.

I am not knocking RM. I love the fact he's SLU's coach. Whole point was it was a tough transition year. Factors: 1.) not enough talent, 2.) somehow, UB missed the bus on getting across to his players what it took to play at a high level. RM even said as much early in the year. "I saw one guy practicing the scissors move that ain't making him a better player" or something like that. We will win under RM.
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Way too high of grades for the players. I like KL and TL as much as anyone but A- and B+ for a season which included the 20 point GW game, the 40 point disaster at Kent State, the 30 point drubbing at Dayton and the poor performances against the Bonnies and Duquesne. Add to that, only 16 wins. When the top 4 players have grades of A- and B+ for this season, makes me wonder what the grades will be like when we actually have a good team. Also, again not to be too negative on TL and KL, but they were not all conference players and they disappeared at the end of the season while DB played only half the season. Don't get me wrong, they played with alot of heart and things were not all their fault that we had no depth and completely lacked any type of inside game, but don't believe you can ignore everything else and give them such high marks.

Personally, I am not really disappointed with this year's results. Last year, we won 20 games (19 Division 1 games including the late tip-in win over MSU) with IV in the middle. IV's senior year was disappointing in that we had expected more out of him but would have welcomed such a performance this year. This year, of course, we won 16 games including many close games (2 overtime losses to Dayton). With a break here or there, we could have equaled last year's wins. Not a big deal since last year was not really so good either. In any event, 3 less wins without any inside game to speak of and introducing a new coach and system is really not bad.

Looking forward to next year. Go Bills.

So the game against a Non D1 opponent counts this year but not last year. And WTF are you bringing up the late tip in over MSU for? Who cares how them won? What about close losses last year why aren't you bringing those up?

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So the game against a Non D1 opponent counts this year but not last year. And WTF are you bringing up the late tip in over MSU for? Who cares how them won? What about close losses last year why aren't you bringing those up?

I would respond but would prefer not being limited to using small words so you could understand.

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agree entirely. Good guys but come on.

Also, looking at the grades, the lowest is a Cand the team went 16-15 and was record breakingly bad in some games! No one deserves an A with the uneven performances this year. Love KL and the Xavier game was brilliant. However, how that same guy could be on the floor at GW is beyond me.

Team grade a C-

My grades

DB A+

KL & TL B+

PE C+

LM C

BE & BH C-

DP D+

All the rest incomplete

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there are no A's in a .500 season in my book. One game over .500 would seem to indicate a so-so season but every win was a struggle while some of the losses were downright embarrassing. Ina previous thread, I gave Dwanye Polk an F for his entire scholarship here at SLU. Let me say straight up front that I still hold to this belief but understand why it was done when it was done. Coming from the AC, FRUBS took a chance and rolled "craps" on that one. At the time it seemed smart but hindsight is 20/20. Its okay to have a non-shooting, non-scoring Point Guard when its Jacques Vaughn and you are Kansas. It is not okay when you are Saint Louis University.

Despite all that bad and ill will, let me say this this ----- the job Dwayne Polk did on Brian Robertsin Atlantic City on Wednesday afternoon was tremendous. I have to believe that the only reason we are in that game, with a chance to win at both the end of regulation and the overtime, is because of what Dwayne did to Roberts in shutting his arse down. The effects were noticable in that they carried over to the Xavier game the next day. Of course there, Roberts exceeded his Wednesday totals by the time seven minutes were gone but he was too beat down to carry through the second half. Xavier even owes Dwayne for that one.

And despite those props, I still only change Dwayne's overall grade from maybe a strong F to a weak D-. Bryce could also drop into an F range. i don't knowhow you gauge things out because Danny gets an A for the second half this year but the seven previous quaters (1st half/2nd half of a season) he's getting non-passing grades. Average that out and the overall is poor. given what he gave over the stretch, replacing his produciton will be key. But losing the other two starters could and should be blessings as opposed to curses.

I am very happy iwth the coaching staff. Majerus still does not have a losing record and most importantly, in talking to Kevin and Tommie last week, it is obvious they have bought into the system and like it. That can only mean great things for both of them next year. It will be like having Tyndale and Chrsitmas on our team, that's what I think it means.

Bryce plays a mean game of craps, though.

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My grades

DB A+

KL & TL B+

PE C+

LM C

BE & BH C-

DP D+

All the rest incomplete

I agree w/ this almost 100%, might drop Tommie and Kevin to a B, though we now know how much better they can be w/ a solid post presence.

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Most of the main players were the same, and Soderberg won how many games with them? And Majerus won how many? hmmmm.

There is a big difference when you have a significant post presence and when you don't. BS had Ian who made other teams double team him on defense. This year's team had no such player. The Bills were just not good enough to overcome the big man's absence with any degree of regularity.
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Most of the main players were the same, and Soderberg won how many games with them? And Majerus won how many? hmmmm.

Can't determine who you're slamming in the above post. RM or UB? If RM, remember UB had an all conference, potential NBA'er playing post with the above "same" talent. Huge fall off when he graduated. I would love to have seen what RM would have done with IV this past season. My guess is we'd all be headed to a regional on Wednesday. The lack of any inside threat this year killed us. It allowed teams to concentrate on KL and TL almost exclusively.
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Most of the main players were the same, and Soderberg won how many games with them? And Majerus won how many? hmmmm.

Seriously Brad you need to move on. SLU is going in a different direction and you arent a part of it.
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The key word in that was "most" as in "most of the players were the same." You cannot factor out cause and effect, however. And with Ian in the low post the effects of that were far reaching. Evenif you could plug another mobile or agile close-to-seven-footer in there, there is no guarantee things will be exactly the same.

Plus, what was the competition like in the schedules? That 20-win season included the variable of one D-II win that some like to point out. I think 20 was 20. But not only the schedule, what was the talent like in the conference this year? I think it went up --- as evidenced by the fact that five A10 teams were mentioned for Dance bids, with three making it and four more going to the Not In Tourney tournament with another one on to the CBI.

I had the chance to get assimilated into the Fordham rooting section on Wednesday afternoon. Those guys were funny. yelling at Whittenberg to "quit pouting" and "coach, Coach!" and "they quit on you, DeeDub, don't quit on them." It was pretty funny stuff at times and then equally mean. But one t hing those guys did say that made sense was to ask the question, how, pray tell, can this team (Fordham) finish fifth last year and then, with the vey same lineup the following year, finish twelfth? Every one of those guys was, for the most part, a fourth year senior. Dunston. Stoudt. Greene. A drastic drop off this year when those guys thought finishing fifth last year menat fourth or higher this year. You think recruiting Saint Louis U. is otugh, I have to question how hard it is to get kids to stay home in 'the City' and go to a putz program like Fordham.

I spoke to Tommie after Wednesday's game. I asked him how, when everyone knows he's about the only guy on our team who can create his own shot, how he doesn't even manage to touch the ball at the end of regulation and/or overtime Wednesday night. He sadi he was covered and coudln't break free. If we know, Brian Gregory knows. I asked Kevin --- or said to Kevin --- how come with the ball at the end of both sessions, we don't even come close to making anything? Not even a questionable foul call on a desperation shot? Kevin said the regulation failure was his in turning the ball over but warren was also all over him and he's not a true point guard. So everyone knows. And everyone knows how to play you. By the time conference tournaments roll around, you are what you are and very few have the time or energy to institute anything new.

We return a very good nucleus for next year in two proven backcourt mates and hopefully a second year, new and improved JUCO. Replacing Bryce and Dwayne on the offensive end will be rather easy in my book. Replacing Danny and Luke will be much more difficult. But I've got to believe the prospects are better --- they can't be much worse than what we've seen the last few years.

How much better would we be if we had NOT changed coaches? I, for one, at this time last year was all ready to let the former regime stay in place. I thought this was the make or break year as far as recruits were concerned. Maybe, just maybe, we win a couple more of the close ones that got away this year --- Dayton twice in OT, Temple in OT, the home fiascos to the Bonnies and Sam Houston. But those were doable under the current regime. Where would we have pulled things back? Maybe we don't win at La Salle or at Richmond or at St. joe's. You don't really know. Maybe we still get Thompson and John. Maybe we don't get Mitchell, Conklin or Reed.

Bottom line: the future is bright and I'm wearing shades. As I sat in Boardwalk Hall last week, all I could envision was us forever passing the likes of Fordham, St. Joe's, Temple, Dayton, Duquesne and so on. I sat there smug in my belief that in the next two or three years, the others in that audience will be cursing the boys in blue and the fat man in black. I equally hated the idea of having to go head-to-head with Xavier again like we did in the Midwest Cities conference or whatever it was because here it is 20 or so years later and they are still ahead of us. They will be an admirable challenge once again and this time I expect to win.

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I for one never said "potential NBAer" so I don't take your post personally -- not that it matters. However, you cannot disagree with the fact that a significant portion of the offense disappeared from one year to the next, or do you? If you agree, then you would also have to agree that the effects of this loss affected that "mostly the same cast" in negative ways. Former SLU teams suffered similar losses with equal effects. When Hughes left, and that is an NBAer, a lottery pick, the "mostly same crew" came back without him. And never achieved the same level again. When Jeff Harris and Donnie Dobbs left, not a single person said NBAer, yet the effects were the same. When H Waldman left ------- of course he left with Claggs and Hmark so a significant portion left. But when Douglas nad Gray left, I think the Bills went back to the NIT championship game with Bonner. One man can have an effect, in both directions.

The loss of Ian wasn't confined to what he took away but also what was no longer available on the roster. I think that is indisputable.

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Most of the main players were the same, and Soderberg won how many games with them? And Majerus won how many? hmmmm.

Disagree. Last year, "V" was a very strong post player, double teamed, got reb's, good hands, this year we had nothing. Huge difference.

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