Coaching at SLU

[jp18]

Lorenzo Romar is considered to be one of the best recruiters/coaches in the country. Did he have success at SLU? Well, not really. He had two winning seasons in three tries (final season was a losing season) and left the cupboard bare for Soderberg, leaving before the program was in good standing. He wasn’t getting the recruits either. Romar left with a record of 51-44.

If Romar can’t have success here, who can? I don’t think firing Brad is the answer right now. Something else needs to change at SLU for success to happen with that program. Once that happens, then I will start blaming the coach at SLU. Right now, all the coaches – past and present - are having similar success because of certain factors (I'm not sure what) aren't being addressed. Any thoughts?

[NH]

Romar was going for the big recruits and fell just short. If he had this team it might have been easier for him to recruit

[Westy03]

I agree with these statements 100%. I know Roy had brought up the same points numerous times and everyone seems to think a new coach will do wonders. I think that will do more harm then good considering the 2008 class here in St. Louis. I really feel that Brad has got a real shot at landing the top prospects in that class and if he is let go at the end of the year you can say bye bye to that entire class and we will end up being worse off than where Romar left us. I really feel that the 2008 class is the make it or break for UB at SLU

[NashvilleBilliken]

I completely agree.

I have brought that up before and the general response is that Romar just wasn't a good recruiter for SLU. And while there may be a bit of truth to that, I feel it is more a copout. Mr. Huggins doesn't have problems bringing in top recruits to Kansas St., Bob Knigh is getting some top talent in Lubbock, and Calipari has no problems bringing kids to memphis to play in a crap conference. Recruiting to SLU is NOT easy. But it's not impossible either. I think Brad's recruiting score is pretty low, but don't feel that rests solely on his shoulders. I think it takes a long time to devlop that strategy. Coming from Wisconsin, recruiting to SLU is a whole new ballgame. One that Brad took awhile to pick up, but I think he's got it. Get in on local recruits VERY early. A la, the class of 2008.

[jp18]

I posted similar thoughts over in Bernie's Pressbox and the big man responded with two posts:

"You'll have to trust me on this -- or don't trust me if that's your choice -- but his (Brad's) job is squarely on the line. Can he save it? Sure. But let's not pretend he's safe just to be polite. He isn't."

"I forgot to add that your comments about the overall leadership at the top are right on. I've been harping about that for years. Does this school realize what it takes to win at D-1 hoops? That said, a coach still is obligated to recruit at least well enough to have a decent bench."

[moytoy12]

because he went about it the wrong way.

[brianstl]

I have had a problem with somethings Bernie has said, but he has been consistently right when he has commented on the leadership at the top and if they are truly committed to building a top 50 program. I think 300+ ranked recruiting budget means the answer is no.

[moytoy12]

The recruiting budget at SLU for all men's sports is ranked 300+. No one has provided definitive proof re: the bball recruiting budget rankings.

Not trying to be an arce.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Romar came in second place for Jamal Sampson, who stayed at Cal only one year. Romar did sign Ryan Hollins, a 7 footer from Pasadena, who was allowed out of his LOI to go to UCLA when Romar left SLU for UW.

[brianstl]

My bad I thought that that listing was for the D-1 men's bball only. Does anyone know if the schools is reimbursing the coaches for cell use when it is for recruiting this year? I was led to believe that it was not covered in the past.

[DeSmetBilliken]

I think Romar could have potentially had more success at SLU, but things just didn't quite go his way. When I look at his recruiting while at SLU, it seems to me that just about everything that could've gone wrong went wrong.

First of all, Romar wanted to build a pipeline from California (where he had his best connections) to SLU. He got several highly touted California kids to seemingly consider SLU very strongly. Jamal Sampson allegedly came down to Cal and SLU, choosing Cal. Chuck Hayes had SLU listed all the way down to when he committed to Kentucky. Jamaal Williams I believe came down to New Mexico and SLU before choosing the Lobos, and eventually transferring to Washington after Romar went there. In that same year, Travis Diener picked Marquette over SLU.

I realize that it doesn't help us if we don't get the kids to sign on the dotted line with SLU, but if any players of the talent level of those four players listed above were showing interest in SLU, especially when three of them were from California, we would be very excited at the prospects.

The big problem with Romar's attempt at recruiting all these California kids was that when we kept finishing as the runner-up, Romar didn't have much of a back-up plan and we ended up with some poor recruiting classes.

The other problem with Romar's recruiting in hindsight is that while some of his recruits were reasonably highly touted, few of them produced on the court over the course of their entire career.

I'm pretty sure Romar's first recruiting class at SLU was considered to be pretty good. It had one of the top local prospects in Chris Sloan, a top 100 recruit from Texas in Floyd McClain, and a one time top 50-100 recruit in Jason Edwin. Sloan had a four year career at SLU, progressing each year and always showing toughness, but the other two fizzled. McClain was basically injured from the time he started at SLU through the time he left. Edwin showed promise late in his freshman year, averaged right around 10 ppg his sophomore year, then proceeded to leave due to academic reasons.

In Romar's last recruiting class at SLU, he got Nick Kern, a long, athletic forward from Vashon to sign with SLU, but he never made it to SLU, partially due to Romar leaving and partially due to academics. He also signed Ryan Hollins, a 6-11 kid from California, to sign with SLU. Hollins decided not to stay with SLU once Romar left to go to UW. He signed with UCLA and started the national championship game for them last spring and has played a couple game this season in the NBA.

Going back to the old SLU Rivals.com board, there was a poster that would post over there whenever another California kid would pick another school with SLU as the runner-up. They would always use the phrase "Once again a bridesmaid, but never a bride." In hindsight, it actually described Romar's recruiting successes or failures very well. I think that many of the people here who criticize Brad's recruiting of signing so many people in the Spring or Summer would actually prefer to at least be mentioned with the level of players Romar was recruiting.

In closing, I wonder if Romar would have had more recruiting success at SLU, and in turn likely would have had a better legacy at SLU, if he had concentrated more on recruiting players from the midwest, rather than focusing on the pipeline to California. The other possibility is that Romar can only recruit the west coast well and was just very out of place at SLU.

[Bay Area Billiken]

If Romar had stayed at SLU, would he have signed Jimmy McKinney and Kalen Grimes? We will never know. But his departure likely didn't help in either case.

Also, at UW he was able to sign Carbondale's Justin Dentmon to play for him in Seattle.

[SLUDrew]

Romar was VERY CLOSE on several highly-touted ballplayers. I realize that "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but if he was persuasive enough to have SLU as one of the final two choices for some of these kids who live 1,000 miles away, imagine what he could do with local studs? I would feel extremely confident right now if he was here recruiting the local studs in the '08 class. I am not saying Brad won't get any of them. I would just feel more comfortable if Romar was here recruiting them.

[moytoy12]

My point exactly. Romar's recruiting prowess channeled in the direction of local talent and regional guys, even though they are not the highly touted west coast recruits, would have been damn effective. His charisma and relationship building on the local and regional scene with the occasional flirtation with east and west coast recruits would have served SLU better.

[billiken_roy]

mckinney committed to mi$$ouri while romar was here. kern came here and mckinney went west.

[Sheltiedave]

Romar was not out of place in St. Louis, but it DOES take 4-5 years to build strong relationships with the significant high school programs. Romar had those bridges with many of the California coaches/programs, but it takes a lot of selling to get a California high school kid to attend SLU. He got his first California commit(Hollins) in his thrid full year.

He spent so many allowable visits on his farm(California) that his bridesmaid status meant lesser recruits were chased in the Midwest, where geographic resistance would be much more reasonable to overcome.

And yes, it has been just as painful to watch Romar's failed recruits(Pulley, Diener, Varner, Seifert) brick shots as it has been to watch Brad's(JJ, DB, and the not ready for prime time players.) Spoonhour got decent/good jucos because he had years of successful relationships dealing with certain programs/coaches. Spoon actually had far more success with his two year, rather than four year, players.

[Sheltiedave]

Roy, Kern never would be able to attend SLU - he never had the GPA. His freshman year at Vashon, he missed more days than he attended. TIFWIW....

[moytoy12]

Sounds like me with a couple of Freshman classes at SLU!

[kwyjibo]

Actually, Romar has been considered one of the most successful recruiters in the country by a lot "experts". However, currently his highly ranked recruit team is on a 1-6 stretch against some good teams(even lost by 28 to a group of unheralded recruits at Wash St.).

I think Romar is a good coach but this notion that all you have to do is recruit and people will start throwing W's at you is wrong. The ball bounces many different ways. Recruiting well is a fairly huge part of success, but it is not sufficient itself.

[billiken_roy]

romar did in fact recruit locally as well. i still say of all the billiken coaches that i can remember, no body was seen at more local games than lorenzo. he went hard after darius miles. lost to st johns. he went hard after david lee, lost to florida. he went hard after dan oppland, lost to valpo, he went hard after mckinney and lost to mi$$ouri, he was going hard after grimes and price when he left. i am sure there were others.

the notion romar only recruited west coast is just wrong.

[courtside]

>Actually, Romar has been considered one of the most

>successful recruiters in the country by a lot "experts".

>However, currently his highly ranked recruit team is on a

>1-6 stretch against some good teams(even lost by 28 to a

>group of unheralded recruits at Wash St.).

>

>I think Romar is a good coach but this notion that all you

>have to do is recruit and people will start throwing W's at

>you is wrong. The ball bounces many different ways.

>Recruiting well is a fairly huge part of success, but it is

>not sufficient itself.

For full disclosure purposes, UDub's best player didn't play in that lopsided loss. He has had GREAT success on the court in Washington....has great classes coming in nexttwo years...and this year's team has zero seniors, one junior, he combines good recruiting, with success on the court, and program direction, games are a hot ticket, etc...

In four seasons, after inheriting nothing. He has gone to NCAA 3 times and twice to Sweet 16. His success at UW even the extremists cannot question. He must have coached them well to go so far...as you say can't just recruit them.

But you need better players and athletes to win.

[kevinfootes]

I can digest losing recruits to some big name schools, but Valpo still irks me! Despite a nice couple of years that they had, you jsut shouldn't lose players to them (unless they have a buring desire to attend a Lutheran school).

[billikenbilly]

if memory serves me correct, romar did not land the biggest studs in Missouri - David Lee, Mo Baker, Darius Miles (who would have been at St. John's if not for the NBA), and Jimmy McKinney. Why would you think we would be better off with him here trying to recruit the high school kids today?

Why is it that no one gives soderberg credit for Lisch and Liddell? i love some of what I've heard from people on this board. Lisch and Liddell were guarantees, both wanted to stay home, etc. I call BS on that. Convincing many of these kids to stay home is often a battle. Maybe Brad did a good job convincing them to stay home. Ever think of it that way.

Overall, i'm not nearly as dissatisfied as some of you, but i think some things need to happen soon, namely bringing in a recruit or two. However, my take on most of the people who post on this board is that they know nothing about basketball and jump on the first bandwagon opinion without any real thought or analysis - much like Bernie Miklasz, which is why I am so perplexed by the hatred here for him. you're all just like him.

Five years ago this board was fired up about Romar being a terrible recruiter and playing a slow style. Now, he seems to be some sort of John Wooden like figure who would have been great had he stayed a while longer. I also recall this board screaming mad like a bunch of babies when SLU hired soderberg over Brian Gregory.

[Box and Won]

I thought the deal with Oppland was that Valpo was willing to offer a scholarship to both him and his significantly less talented twin brother, and we weren't. Oppland's brother ended up transferring to DII Truman State. We definitely could have used Dan.

[Clock_Tower]

Close? Romar is great recruiter because he was close? Big Deal.

Brad came in second for Stemler, Grimes and Shaw. Spoon came in second for Jahadi White and Chris Carawell. Could go on and on but would serve no purpose.