Tonka Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 When will we get to see the extent of this guy's game? I never had the opportunity to see Kevin play in HS but all I heard was these amazing things about him as a shooter and how he'd have an immediate impact, etc. Well, I think he has had an immediate impact. For a freshman to get time and to ever make a difference is impressive. I must say I have been more impressed than I thought he would be on defense. I've actually been a little less impressed with his offense. Not really his overall output, just his shot. He has one good looking shot, but I thought he'd look better from the outside. I am basing that fact on what I heard from many of you. So, the purpose of this post is to ask when you all think he will be that star shooter I heard about. Will it be his sophomore year? Or, do you think we'll see it at some point during conference play? Also, the more I read and hear about Lisch, the more I like the kid. He seems about as stand up a guy as there comes. He also seems extremely down to earth. Kids like this don't come around often and I look forward to seeing him all 4 years here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeytir Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I saw Lisch play in High School on Charter's cable channel 3 a couple of times. He was throwing 75' outlet bounce passes on rebounds and knocking down shots. He looked like a good D-I prospect. He did tear his meniscus as a senior, an injury that normally heals without surgery so I do not know if he has lost any speed or is still attempting to recover some of his speed. The biggest concern I have about him is that he is not outstandingly quick. Meaning that he has difficulty creating his own shot. The white freshman point guard from UNC put a defensive clinic on Lisch in the second half of that game. Lisch seems like an accurate set shooter but the biggest thing for him offensively is does he have enough speed to create his own shot in college basketball and has he developed a pull up jump shot that he is comfortable with? I have not seen a pull up jumper from him off the dribble this year. Remember the biggest difference between every level of sports is the speed of the athletes. Personally, a lot of the reason we have not seen what Liddell and Lisch can do is because Brad’s offense schemes seem mundane and simple-there is not a lot of cutting, screening, moving, etc (apologists would say this is because they want to run everything through IV). Watch Illinois play (they do have a lot to work with, but SIUC uses the same system) and see the number of easy baskets they get. I do think Brad is a hell of a coach, his defensive schemes are impressive, I have never seen his teams quit (even after crushing losses the last few years) and he gets a lot out of the talent he does/doesn’t have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Let me say this, the biggest supporter of Lisch for the last two years has been broy. So far, given his statistics to date, I'm more than okay with getting athletes like Kevin on the roster. If there are five times in a game where Tommie drives or Ian is doubled and the ball is bounced back outside for the jumper, four of those times had better be Kevin right now. And players should get better from year to year. My understanding of all the pre-college bally-hoo on this guy comes from broy. So far, I think its been well-intentioned but 12 games does not a career make. I am expecting things to continue on the upswing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 You can tell he's a smart kid and has talent. I see nothing but upswing for him but just putting the question out there to those that have follwed him when they thought he'd start lighting it up. One of the things I've noticed and had a little concern is that when me misses he usually missed bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_nate Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I think lisch could be the shooter we need he just needs to focus and his treys will fall, A great shooter and defender are rare so lisch shows alot of promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Lisch's shooting percentage might not be the best right now, but some of that stems from the fact he's shooting up fade away threes at the end of the shot clock because nobody else will take the shot. So I don't blame him completely for the percentages. What I do see progressing over time is both his outside shot and his more willingness to take his man off the dribble and hit that fifteen footer which I think is where he is best right now anyways. Getting 9 or so pts a game as a freshman is pretty good and he'll only get better. I'm not at all feeling like he hasn't lived up to the hype. He might not have lived up to Roy's hype, but not even Lebron James could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 good points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewfinance Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 >He did tear his meniscus as a senior, an injury that >normally heals without surgery so I do not know if he has >lost any speed or is still attempting to recover some of his >speed. Meniscal injuries do NOT "heal", with or without surgery...there isn't enough blood flow to the cartillage for it to repair itself. Surgery just trims the bad section away, because it usually only becomes painful if the tear causes rubbing inside the knee. A good strengthening program and proper care can keep the inflamation and pain to a minimum if he opted to not go under the knife, otherwise recovery time from a knee scope is 2-6 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 it is my OPINION (no one has told me this) that kevin has been concentrating on being part of a total team effort. and thus, his aggressive attitude he displayed in high school has been put in the closet. the closest thing i can remember to a total reversal in style of play (kevin isnt this much of a shutdown) was jay shidler who was just an amazing scorer at lawrenceville high school in the 70's and then played on a national championship team at kentucky. you would have sworn they couldnt have been the same player. all in all, i think it is a good thing you arent seeing what we saw in high school. if you were, that would mean he had to step up and be the total offense. but with ian and tommy, we have even better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 implying that kevin cannot create his own shot is absurb. other than tommie no one on the team is better at creating his own space for a shot. as to kevin's quickness/speed ask horner about it. 4x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 KL has not disappointed at all. He is what you can expect from a Frosh....ups and downs. With more ups than downs at this point. We can only expect him to get better as he learns what he needs to work on at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 hughes 20.9 highmark 13.2 liddell 12.2 claggett 10.3 winfield 9.5 baniak 8.6 lisch 8.5 biles 7.3 drejaj 6.8 perry 6.0 polk 5.8 fisher 5.0 (redshirt) luechtifeld 5.0 (redshirt) pulley 4.9 brown 4.8 heinrich 4.7 edwin 4.3 meyer 3.4 braun 3.1 (redshirt) vouyoukas 2.9 simmons 2.7 clark 2.3 latimore 2.1 mcclain 2.0 johnson 1.8 (redshirt) cranford 1.8 harris 1.5 sloan 1.3 diener 0.6 (redshirt) seyfert 0.5 (redshirt) this is the list of freshmen season's scoring averages going back to the claggett highmark freshmen class. keep in mind that liddell and lisch's averages will likely continue to go up as well. i am not sure what you all expected. i myself expected kevin and tommie to be the 2 best scorers on the team this year and both to be double figure scoring averages (never saw the fantastic improvement of vouyoukas coming to the degree he has turned his game around!). kevin has averaged well into double figures in the games he has started. and i expect he will be double figures by year end. same with lidell. as you can see a lot of very good billikens are below both kevin and liddell on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 my first thought after reading the initial post was "what did clagget and Highmark average their first year?" You answered that and then some. I went to the stats section of Billikens.com to find out what Virgil Cobbin averaged his freshman year but the 95-96 data wasn't available. I seem to remember it being in the 9-10 range which goes to show that gaudy freshman stats don't guarantee success either. Lisch's numbers are fine in general and Tommie has provided more scoring than I thought. I guess I expected more scoring from our sophomore group of Meyer, Brown and Polk given the success they started to have in the 2nd half of last year. Roy, I think we are going to end the season with a 9-7 or 10-6 record in the A-10. The top half of the A-10 is comparable to the good teams on our non-conference schedule but the bottom half is just bad. I think we can win road games at teams like Richmond, Rhode Island, Duquense and even La Salle. 2-4 in that group allows for 1 home loss to finish 9-7. 3 out of 4 and 1 home loss and we'll be 10-6. This team should be better than .500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crymdg2 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I have been told that Coach Soderberg has indeed asked Kevin to be a more complete team player with the absence of Drejaj, which means being less aggressive on the offensive end. He has been asked to create for his teamates and play a more support role of sorts. The time will come when he can go back to seeing what everyone saw him do in high school. The best is yet to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Lisch had the surgery - so I am not sure what that post was all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 OK - how do you get to this stats section - I never knew it existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 its an option on the left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Thanks - can't believe I never saw that. If it was snake it would have bit me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 it would be great if you could fill in those two missing years of player stats. i go to that stats link a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 One thing to consider when looking at stats...is how good was th team the previous year, and how good are your returning teammates. If Lisch played on a top 25 team for example, his stats would be lower as would his playing time. I like to look at how many minutes are you playing/averaging...and compare that to the numbers. If you are going to play 30 plus minutes a night, you need to produce some offense. Lisch has been fine...he isn't the second coming as advertised by Roy...and frankly that I believe is the cause for debates about him. Roy was way over the top with him, which is fine. IMO, he is a little ahead defensively, though I expect the Frosh defensive nmistakes...and he is more behind offensively than expected...again not a lot on either end. On offense, he will improve as he goes...but he will not be more than up and down all year. He is exactly as advertised, a good solid recruit, and those kinds of recruits are difference makers their last two years. Some have a shot of being that their Soph year, but most are two year impact guys after learning and gettig minutes. Eventually the hops is after a few more years of solid recruits, Soderberg will sprinkle in an immediate difference maker superstar recruit once every few years, or several years. It will be interesting to watch him catch up to the speed of the game on offense...both physically and with his decision making. He is more of a typical Frosh in those areas right now. As I have mentioned in other posts...if Soderberg doesn't bring in similar level kids for next year or the year after...Lisch and co will be a .500 team playing for a new coach their senior year. The hope and expactation is to turn the coner in recruiting after a nice beginning. SLU needs a point guard, a shooter or two and a low post player...if they don't produce one of these next year or the year after...the class will be wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I would agree with Courtside that a lot of eggs/high expectations are being put into the spring 2006 recruiting class. It is very important that the coaching staff follow up last year's class with another good one and filling needs will be imperative in order to see our team get back into the Big Dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I didn't know those years were missing. Long ago SLU mailed me the past season stats, but I don't know where they are right now. sonofabitch. I will look around tonight, but it may be tough. I may e-mail SLU asking for them again. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 crymdg2, I don't understand your "which means being less aggressive" comment. I see no difference in how KL plays or practices. Kevin has never played out of control, either in high school or during his first 12 college games. How does being a more complete player.....equate to being less aggressive? I'm missing something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crymdg2 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I apologize tseugnekillib. I was not paying attention when writing the previous post. I meant to write before the Drejaj injury. Obviously with the injury to Anthony, Kevin has been asked to step up and replace that offense and make up for those missing points that AD brought to the table. Before the injury when Kevin was coming off the bench Coach had asked Kevin to "be less aggressive" and be more of a run the offense and score when you get it type of player. But with the injury the tables have turned. Again I apologize for my mistake and thank you for pointing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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