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9 hours ago, thetorch said:

That is a very specious argument.

No matter what we spend on Field Hockey that has nothing to do with Basketball spending.  That is not how the AD works.

It is in the best interest of the university that if it offers a scholarship eligible sport to give that team at the very least the bare minimum needed to compete for A10 titles.  We have more than enough resources to do that.  Choosing not to do that puts the university in a bad light.  You also have to call into question recklessly spending on a sport that is destined to fail.  Why even compete?  Just drop the sport.  Offering a sport that has no chance of winning just to check a box or fulfill title IX guideline is a huge waste of resources for the school.

I agree with a lot said here. Field Hockey is likely not a sport where we're going to contend for A10 titles. We're a midwest outpost of an east coast conference filled with mostly private universities. We have one or two of the best field hockey programs in the country in the conference. We should however be able to beat teams like Lock Haven, Davidson and Richmond. 

I am fully on board with Field Hockey as a sport at SLU now and going forward. But financially speaking, SLU should have switched from field hockey to women's lacrosse years ago, to be honest. Equal costs, no need for a new facility. If you're going to suck, don't light money on fire traveling back and forth from SportPort. 

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2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

I am fully on board with Field Hockey as a sport at SLU now and going forward. But financially speaking, SLU should have switched from field hockey to women's lacrosse years ago, to be honest. Equal costs, no need for a new facility. If you're going to suck, don't light money on fire traveling back and forth from SportPort. 

What's the difference in facilities? I always thought that St Louis area high schools have good women's field hockey teams, isn't women's lacrosse pretty much a Northeast/Middle Atlantic area sport? I would think this would effect recruiting and fan interest.

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21 minutes ago, MusicCityBilliken said:

What's the difference in facilities? I always thought that St Louis area high schools have good women's field hockey teams, isn't women's lacrosse pretty much a Northeast/Middle Atlantic area sport? I would think this would affect recruiting and fan interest.

Field hockey requires special turf and lacrosse doesn’t. They could probably better level off the field within the track on the med campus and it’d be ready for competition immediately on natural grass. That alone would save you hundreds of thousands. My point, prior to the field hockey facility was if you’re going to suck at a coastal dominated sport, then do it in the one you can put back on campus at the lowest cost. That has obviously changed.

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13 hours ago, thetorch said:

That is a very specious argument.

No matter what we spend on Field Hockey that has nothing to do with Basketball spending.  That is not how the AD works.

It is in the best interest of the university that if it offers a scholarship eligible sport to give that team at the very least the bare minimum needed to compete for A10 titles.  We have more than enough resources to do that.  Choosing not to do that puts the university in a bad light.  You also have to call into question recklessly spending on a sport that is destined to fail.  Why even compete?  Just drop the sport.  Offering a sport that has no chance of winning just to check a box or fulfill title IX guideline is a huge waste of resources for the school.

I disagree that is a specious argument.  In fact this comment "(n)o matter what we spend on Field Hockey that has nothing to do with Basketball spending.  That is not how the AD works," if flat out incorrect, not just specious.  Are you suggesting that the Athletic Department does not have a budget or that there is no limit to what donors are willign to pay?  Every business, and the athletic department is a business, has a certain amount of funds that it has to decide how to allocate.  If money is spent on Field Hockey, it means that same money was not spent on either basketball program, either soccer program, or the baseball or softball programs.  It's very easy to criticize and say the athletic department is being sexist by not taking care of our field hockey team and that doing so is not in line with SLU's values.  I'm sure you will then complain about not having a new baseball stadium or complain about some sort of budgetary shortcoming on men's basketball spending.

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1 hour ago, MusicCityBilliken said:

What's the difference in facilities? I always thought that St Louis area high schools have good women's field hockey teams, isn't women's lacrosse pretty much a Northeast/Middle Atlantic area sport? I would think this would effect recruiting and fan interest.

Lacrosse has caught on fire in the area both boys and girls.  I actually would rate it higher than field hockey.

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39 minutes ago, WUH said:

SLU should keep field hockey and add lacrosse. 

Mens Volleyball would be even better.

Sure, water down the available budget for non revenue sports even more.   That'll make the non business minded posters even more crazy. 

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Maybe I should edit that to say SLU should investigate the possibility of adding lacrosse and men's volleyball.  Determine whether one or both can be added in a fiscally responsible manner.  The latter certainly can.

Men's volleyball allows for a maximum of 5 full-time scholarships per program and with a roster of 20-25, the tuition revenue would go a long way.

Lindenwood, McKendree, and Quincy added men's volleyball specifically to increase enrollment.

Each are members of the 9-team MIVA conference with 7 of 9 programs being a 5-hour or less road trip away.  The conference also includes more intriguing opponents such as Loyola and Ohio State.  And the game is so much fun to watch.

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21 minutes ago, WUH said:

Maybe I should edit that to say SLU should investigate the possibility of adding lacrosse and men's volleyball.  Determine whether one or both can be added in a fiscally responsible manner.  The latter certainly can.

Men's volleyball allows for a maximum of 5 full-time scholarships per program and with a roster of 20-25, the tuition revenue would go a long way.

Lindenwood, McKendree, and Quincy added men's volleyball specifically to increase enrollment.

Each are members of the 9-team MIVA conference with 7 of 9 programs being a 5-hour or less road trip away.  The conference also includes more intriguing opponents such as Loyola and Ohio State.  And the game is so much fun to watch.

Lindenwood added Men's Volleyball in 2003.  I couldn't find anything in the archives on how it increased school enrollment.  They do have 24 on their current roster, so yes, I guess you can say the school enrollment increased by 24. 

Lindenwood also just finished cutting 10 athletic programs.

The athletic teams discontinued were:
· NCAA Men's Lacrosse, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Men's Swimming and Diving, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Men's Tennis, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Men's Indoor Track & Field, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Men's Outdoor Track & Field, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Men's Wrestling, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Women's Field Hockey, effective December 1, 2023
· NCAA Women's Gymnastics, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· NCAA Women's Swimming and Diving, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season
· SLS Men's and Women's Cycling, effective at conclusion of Spring 2024 season

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16 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Lindenwood added Men's Volleyball in 2003.  I couldn't find anything in the archives on how it increased school enrollment.  They do have 24 on their current roster, so yes, I guess you can say their enrollment increased by 24.

But they did not cut the 5-scholarship maximum men's volleyball program, did they?

Lindenwood is an outlier as they now have a Division I football albatross to fund, but I did offer two other examples that illustrate the point that you can run a cost-neutral men's volleyball program.

As for enrollment, many college and universities have added athletic programs, outdoor programs, recreation centers to increase the gender parity, a strategy that has been known attract more male students--both athletes and non-athletes.  That strategy is probably more useful at a McKendree than it is a SLU, but still...

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10 hours ago, WUH said:

But they did not cut the 5-scholarship maximum men's volleyball program, did they?

Lindenwood is an outlier as they now have a Division I football albatross to fund, but I did offer two other examples that illustrate the point that you can run a cost-neutral men's volleyball program.

As for enrollment, many college and universities have added athletic programs, outdoor programs, recreation centers to increase the gender parity, a strategy that has been known attract more male students--both athletes and non-athletes.  That strategy is probably more useful at a McKendree than it is a SLU, but still...

Don't feed the trolls. 

14 hours ago, WUH said:

SLU should keep field hockey and add lacrosse. 

Mens Volleyball would be even better.

As much as I would like to have more Billiken athletics on my schedule, I think as long as you have teams that are playing in off campus facilities, inadequate facilities or teams that are at the bottom of the league the focus should be raising the level of competition in those sports first and foremost. I don't think SLU should explore athletics expansion. Take care of what you have, first. We don't need another sport for CMay to show up for his obligatory shaking hands and kissing babies 10 minutes on senior night and then dip out the back door. 

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11 hours ago, WUH said:

But they did not cut the 5-scholarship maximum men's volleyball program, did they?

Lindenwood is an outlier as they now have a Division I football albatross to fund, but I did offer two other examples that illustrate the point that you can run a cost-neutral men's volleyball program.

As for enrollment, many college and universities have added athletic programs, outdoor programs, recreation centers to increase the gender parity, a strategy that has been known attract more male students--both athletes and non-athletes.  That strategy is probably more useful at a McKendree than it is a SLU, but still...

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  How many scholarships were cut in the 10 listed sports?  I don't know.  My guess is that some of those sports have 5 or less scholarships also.   I'm also guessing that they did some juggling to ensure Title IX numbers were okay.

Did they not cut volleyball because it adds enrollment and the others don't.  

I played high level men's VB right after college.  St. Louis had a fairly aggressive men's program 'back in the days'.  I like the sport.

But I do appreciate your opinion.    

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7 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  How many scholarships were cut in the 10 listed sports?  I don't know.  My guess is that some of those sports have 5 or less scholarships also.   I'm also guessing that they did some juggling to ensure Title IX numbers were okay.

Did they not cut volleyball because it adds enrollment and the others don't.  

I played high level men's VB right after college.  I like the sport.  St. Louis had a fairly aggressive program 'back in the days'. 

But I do appreciate your opinion.    

This is such a ridiculous comparison. A. Men's Volleyball did not get cut. and B. You cannot compare the cost benefit analysis of a (SLU) school adding teams from a long standing list of 16 vs a (Lindenwood) cutting their laundry list of athletics down to 21 as they move up in competition to Division 1. There's a difference between adding a new item to the budget and keeping an item on the budget among a list of eliminations. You already have Men's Volleyball okay well we have Women's that's easy Title IX math. 

They are moving from a business model of fill your halls with international student athletes in Olympic Sports and commuters, to the traditional Division 1 athletics model. 

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12 hours ago, WUH said:

But they did not cut the 5-scholarship maximum men's volleyball program, did they?

Lindenwood is an outlier as they now have a Division I football albatross to fund, but I did offer two other examples that illustrate the point that you can run a cost-neutral men's volleyball program.

As for enrollment, many college and universities have added athletic programs, outdoor programs, recreation centers to increase the gender parity, a strategy that has been known attract more male students--both athletes and non-athletes.  That strategy is probably more useful at a McKendree than it is a SLU, but still...

I don't know if adding men's volleyball does anything for SLU, but places like Mckendree would be closed if it weren't for sports. 

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38 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

This is such a ridiculous comparison. A. Men's Volleyball did not get cut. and B. You cannot compare the cost benefit analysis of a (SLU) school adding teams from a long standing list of 16 vs a (Lindenwood) cutting their laundry list of athletics down to 21 as they move up in competition to Division 1. There's a difference between adding a new item to the budget and keeping an item on the budget among a list of eliminations. You already have Men's Volleyball okay well we have Women's that's easy Title IX math. 

They are moving from a business model of fill your halls with international student athletes in Olympic Sports and commuters, to the traditional Division 1 athletics model. 

I agree that's what they did, but then they go and add an Olympic sport. Doesn't make sense to me. 

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1 hour ago, DOC said:

I don't know if adding men's volleyball does anything for SLU, but places like Mckendree would be closed if it weren't for sports. 

This is true, but then, what would SLU be without sports?

I have no idea to be honest, but I imagine it looks very different.

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4 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Nah. LU Mens Volleyball has been around since 2000, this is why the whole discussion is apples to oranges. All Lindenwood did was contract.

My bad. Lindenwood was one of the first colleges to focus on enrollment growth through sports. It seemed to work well and many similar institutions followed that path. It will be interesting to see if the D1 model will work.  

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8 minutes ago, DOC said:

My bad. Lindenwood was one of the first colleges to focus on enrollment growth through sports. It seemed to work well and many similar institutions followed that path. It will be interesting to see if the D1 model will work.  

They gave schollies for things like roller hockey and badminton.  Took it to the nth degree

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