SLU Women's Soccer Thread

[Lord Elrond]

Congratulations to Anna Walsh, being named to the Soccer News National Team of the Week!

[courtside]

1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

Why top 12?  I thought that top 16 got to host 1st round NCAA games.  Not that the NCAA usually does things that make sense, but wouldn't it make more sense for NCAA to release top 16?

It’s new this year. They are trying out a midseason top 10 list.

It’s really a top 10 list and not a top 12 list. However, the NCAA named 2 teams not in the top 10 that were also considered. (Penn State/South Carolina)

Criteria considered were RPI, strength of schedule, results vs top 25 RPI, and head to head results. 

These were results through October 13th only. None since.

……………………..

Immediately after October 13th, 3 of the 12 teams lost and 1 had a bad draw. However, some teams just below that level had some good results too. This is also why a handful, maybe 3 teams a week or so jump ahead of SLU while others drop down below SLU, and SLU seems to stay the same in some of the weekly non RPI rankings.

…………………….

If the NCAA Tourney began today, SLU would certainly be in the top 16, and they would be battling for top 12 and top 8. Top 16 is the floor, Top 8 is the likely ceiling. 

So what does that mean? Let’s say SLU is a 2 or 3 seed. (Top 8 or Top 12). That means SLU would host a Round of 64 game and be a heavy favorite. (Missouri State type of team). Then SLU would play a neutral site game as a favored team. In that game if SLU was a 2 seed they would host a 7 seed. If they were a 3 seed they would play a 6 seed at a neutral site. This is of course if the 7 or 6 seed didn’t lose their first game.

……………

I have seen a few SLU projections. These are just to give an idea of types of matchup possibilities. They are not literal. One has them as a 3 seed playing Missouri State first at home. Then they would play the winner of USC and San Diego State to get to the Sweet 16. That would be neutral site. Then they would potentially play a 2 seed, Florida State in that scenario to get to the Elite 8. That is 8 teams, or half of that region. Alabama was the 1 seed in that region in that scenario. 

The other 8 teams in that group of 16 would then have to be the 1 seed, 8 seed, 4 seed, 5 seed and their opponents in that group of 8. And SLU would play whomever emerged from there. 

Example: 

Last year South Carolina was unseeded. They won on the road at 2 seed UNC. Then they won 2 neutral site games in L.A. Why were they neutral site games? That’s because the next highest seed in that part of the bracket was 3 seed USC. USC won their first game but then lost to unseeded Penn State the next game. When South Carolina played Penn State, it was in LA. (Are you still with us?)

Then after winning its Sweet 16 game vs Penn State, at a neutral site, South Carolina then faced 4 seeded BYU, on the road at BYU. (They won that one too)

So a lot of where you play depends on the results each round. 

………………

Another example had SLU as a 2 seed with a similar first round game. But SLU would potentially host a 2nd round game and a Sweet 16 game, not having to go on the road until the elite 8 vs a 1 seed (UCLA in the example) or host that game if the 1 seed lost. 

………………..

Remember last year. SLU won on the road at Ole Miss. Then they went to 1 seed Rutgers and lost. The other game hosted by Rutgers was 4 seed TCU vs Princeton. That winner played Rutgers at Rutgers. Then 1 seed Rutgers hosted 2 seed Arkansas in the elite 8. 

Arkansas a 2 seed, hosted 3 games. Notre Dame the 3 seed hosted one game, then neutral site win, then loss at Arkansas in Sweet 16. Then Arkansas had to go on the road because the 1 seed Rutgers was still in the tourney. Otherwise Arkansas would have hosted the elite 8. 

…………………..

With regards to the initial list released by the NCAA, 1) it’s early. 2) Much of it was closely tied to RPI, but not completely. 2 teams were a stretch, but 10 of the 12 had a top 10 RPI at the time. 

…………………

 

[courtside]

If the season ended today, VCU would likely be an NCAA at large team. (They have a win and a draw against 2 different RPI top 10 teams, Pittsburgh and Virginia).

Dayton’ would not be an at large team as their issue is not having any strong RPI wins. (A few top 100 wins) They lost to Ohio State, SLU, VCU, and they didn’t play a tough enough non conference schedule besides Ohio State). 

…………….

Speaking of Dayton, the soccer analytics top rated players for SLU vs Dayton were in order: Heckel, Preusser, Sawyer, Walsh. 

………….

VCU likes to work through Bagley in the central attacking midfield, and Matsuhisa on the right side.  (from Charen at right back) Bagley takes many of their set pieces, and that is where VCU scores many of their goals Matsuhisa creates from the wing. Sarver is their primary finisher up top along with Bulatovic. Sarver has been one of the better Freshmen nationally finds the ball well inside of 18. Solid experienced backline with a veteran but first season playing experience keeper. Technically they will play a variation of a 4-3-3. 

 

[Lord Elrond]

SLU 1 - VCU 0. Goal by Caroline Kelly with the assist from Sydney Beach, and that was all the offense SLU needed for the win. The VCU coach wanted goalkeeper interference on the play, but didn’t get the call ( I didn’t see it from the stands). VCU’s defense was tough as advertised, SLU had 13 shots to 7 for VCU (only 3 shots for either team in the second half, VCU played better in the second half. 3 saves for each Goalkeeper, 9 Corner Kicks for the Billikens to 0 for VCU. Lyndsey Heckel did not play, I didn’t even see her on the sidelines, I am assuming she had a cold or the flu or something, if it was an injury she would have been out there with Julia Simon.  Katie Houck played in her place.  The only injury was when Hannah Sawyer had to be helped off the field, hope she’s ok.

The win made the Billikens the regular season champs of the A10, and gave them top seeding in the tournament.  St Joseph’s is next on Sunday Oct 23rd for the regular season final. While the Billikens seeding is locked in, the same can’t be said of the rest of the conference. Dayton is now the #2 seed, VCU #3, but only 1 point apart so Sundays results could flip that. Davidson Duquesne, St Joseph and UMass are all pretty tightly bunched, and will be the 4, 5, 6 and 7 seeds, but the order of the seeding is far from determined, any of them could be the 4 seed at this point. The 8th seed could be, at this point, be any one of the following: LaSalle, Loy-Chi, Fordham, Rhody, or Richmond. They did print in the schedule that the A10 Quarterfinal will be at Hermann Stadium Sat Oct 29th, 1pm (SLU was guaranteed a home game regardless of tonight’s results). If the Billikens win, the A10 Semifinal is set for Wed Nov 2nd at 7 pm, and the A10 championship will be Sun Nov 6th (the program said Noon if at SLU). 

[slufanskip]

22 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

SLU 1 - VCU 0. Goal by Caroline Kelly with the assist from Sydney Beach, and that was all the offense SLU needed for the win. The VCU coach wanted goalkeeper interference on the play, but didn’t get the call ( I didn’t see it from the stands). VCU’s defense was tough as advertised, SLU had 13 shots to 7 for VCU (only 3 shots for either team in the second half, VCU played better in the second half. 3 saves for each Goalkeeper, 9 Corner Kicks for the Billikens to 0 for VCU. Lyndsey Heckel did not play, I didn’t even see her on the sidelines, I am assuming she had a cold or the flu or something, if it was an injury she would have been out there with Julia Simon.  Katie Houck played in her place.  The only injury was when Hannah Sawyer had to be helped off the field, hope she’s ok.

The win made the Billikens the regular season champs of the A10, and gave them top seeding in the tournament.  St Joseph’s is next on Sunday Oct 23rd for the regular season final. While the Billikens seeding is locked in, the same can’t be said of the rest of the conference. Dayton is now the #2 seed, VCU #3, but only 1 point apart so Sundays results could flip that. Davidson Duquesne, St Joseph and UMass are all pretty tightly bunched, and will be the 4, 5, 6 and 7 seeds, but the order of the seeding is far from determined, any of them could be the 4 seed at this point. The 8th seed could be, at this point, be any one of the following: LaSalle, Loy-Chi, Fordham, Rhody, or Richmond. They did print in the schedule that the A10 Quarterfinal will be at Hermann Stadium Sat Oct 29th, 1pm (SLU was guaranteed a home game regardless of tonight’s results). If the Billikens win, the A10 Semifinal is set for Wed Nov 2nd at 7 pm, and the A10 championship will be Sun Nov 6th (the program said Noon if at SLU). 

Just a small correction. Katie Houck has started every game this year. Sydney Beach was the new starter, however she played an outside back. Katie did move to the middle

[Lord Elrond]

3 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Just a small correction. Katie Houck has started every game this year. Sydney Beach was the new starter, however she played an outside back. Katie did move to the middle

Correct, sorry

[courtside]

8 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Just a small correction. Katie Houck has started every game this year. Sydney Beach was the new starter, however she played an outside back. Katie did move to the middle

Skip is correct. SLU starts every game with 3 center backs and 1 outside back based on personnel.

Because Lyndsey Heckel (injured early in the Dayton game but played the rest of the game) was out for the game, Sydney Beach played outside back and Katie Houck moved to the middle, her natural center back position. So it’s a comfortable move for her.

To Houck’s credit she plays outside often out of need for SLU and she does it well. (As Skip knows, Heckel and Stram converted to center backs from forward attacking roles prior to SLU.)

Beach played very well for 90 minutes, as did the rest of SLU’s back line. Sydney has started and play many games and minutes in her SLU career. Marked tight high. helped collapse the middle, and was strong on crosses and wide runs.

SLU will switch sides with Bri and Katie sometimes during the middle of games, and/or strategically based on an opponent’s attack. (They also do this with their wings)

We talked in pregame that VCU likes to work up the right side with Charen and Matsuhisa, to provide far post service to Sarver. Especially in the first half, SLU forced several turnovers and good scoring chances by boxing in with Groark, Friedrich, and Halverson playing high on that side. And the few times VCU threatened, Beach was all over Sarver. And SLU limited set piece opportunities, fouls, corners, etc…for Bagley. 

This season, Nicholas and Spaete are outside back depth and Brinkman and Hiatt are center back depth. (Brinkman who switched from outside back to center back in the Spring, started the Xavier game when Stram was out. But Shields went with experience in Beach, and moved Halverson back to the left side for the VCU game, and it worked well)
 

[courtside]

46 minutes ago, courtside said:

Skip is correct. SLU starts every game with 3 center backs and 1 outside back based on personnel.

Because Lyndsey Heckel (injured early in the Dayton game but played the rest of the game) was out for the game, Sydney Beach played outside back and Katie Houck moved to the middle, her natural center back position. So it’s a comfortable move for her.

To Houck’s credit she plays outside often out of need for SLU and she does it well. (As Skip knows, Heckel and Stram converted to center backs from forward attacking roles prior to SLU.)

Beach played very well for 90 minutes, as did the rest of SLU’s back line. Sydney has started and play many games and minutes in her SLU career. Marked tight high. helped collapse the middle, and was strong on crosses and wide runs.

SLU will switch sides with Bri and Katie sometimes during the middle of games, and/or strategically based on an opponent’s attack. (They also do this with their wings)

We talked in pregame that VCU likes to work up the right side with Charen and Matsuhisa, to provide far post service to Sarver. Especially in the first half, SLU forced several turnovers and good scoring chances by boxing in with Groark, Friedrich, and Halverson playing high on that side. And the few times VCU threatened, Beach was all over Sarver. And SLU limited set piece opportunities, fouls, corners, etc…for Bagley. 

This season, Nicholas and Spaete are outside back depth and Brinkman and Hiatt are center back depth. (Brinkman who switched from outside back to center back in the Spring, started the Xavier game when Stram was out. But Shields went with experience in Beach, and moved Halverson back to the left side for the VCU game, and it worked well)
 

I could have added that Liz Stureman is also a back line player for SLU from IMG Academy by way of Indiana. Many are less familiar with Liz as she has had a tough go of it for 2 years with injury. (She’s the player some will notice in different stages of assistance or not on the sidelines based on her treatment. She has moved to crutches at this time)

Liz had re-occurring knee pain after surgery and she has had a long recovery road. But she is still very much a part of the team. 

And of course Bri Arthur began playing outside back out of need in 2021, but primarily plays on the wing. 

[slufanskip]

SLU was especially strong in the 1st half with their very aggressive high press. It looked like they were confusing VCU a lot. They seemed to switch off from patiently boxing a player in forcing a long kick out of trouble to very aggressive attacking the player with the ball creating turnover after turnover.

VCU really wanted to play out of the back but and stuck with it despite a complete inability to get past the half line more than a couple of times in the 1st 35 minutes. VCU had a d good run of controlling the play for the last 5-10 min of the 1st half but it was dominated by SLU who didn’t score but had a couple of narrow misses. 
 

The 2nd half VCU did better and was able to string together passes better and had more possession in the SLU defensive 3rd but really only 1 dangerous chance (a missed shot from an open player 12 ish yards out) and a couple of other opportunities but nothing really dangerous. 
 

SLU’s goal came with a little controversy but I think the ref got it right. A VCU clearance was played back in long to the center of the goal about 5 yards out from Sydney Beach. Caroline Kelly went for it as did the VCU keeper, the ball came free and Kelly put it in the back of the net. There was some contact between Kelly and the keep but it was a 50/50 ball and the more aggressive one with the contact was the Keep. Kelly didn’t move much. It’s a call that is frequently called on the offensive player but wrongly many times. The offensive player is allowed to go for the ball. It’s generally called as if the offensive player is required to move out of the way for the keeper. Kudos to the ref for getting it right and not doing the easy thing. 
 

SLU had a couple of other dangerous chances in the 2nd half Hannah F hit the crossbar from about 25 yards out with a hard shot and the keep just beat Groark I believe to a through ball, making a fantastic save. 

[HoosierPal]

14 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

 

SLU’s goal came with a little controversy but I think the ref got it right. A VCU clearance was played back in long to the center of the goal about 5 yards out from Sydney Beach. Caroline Kelly went for it as did the VCU keeper, the ball came free and Kelly put it in the back of the net. There was some contact between Kelly and the keep but it was a 50/50 ball and the more aggressive one with the contact was the Keep. Kelly didn’t move much. It’s a call that is frequently called on the offensive player but wrongly many times. The offensive player is allowed to go for the ball. It’s generally called as if the offensive player is required to move out of the way for the keeper. Kudos to the ref for getting it right and not doing the easy thing. 

Let's just take the win and go home.  Yes, there was controversy.  Was the goalie impeded?  Reverse the teams, and put SLU goalie in that position.  You still good with the call and the subsequent 'L' for the Bills?

Tough decision to make for the ref who doesn't have VAR.  But it is over, done, and WE ARE THE CHAMPS (queue Queen).

[slufanskip]

12 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Let's just take the win and go home.  Yes, there was controversy.  Was the goalie impeded?  Reverse the teams, and put SLU goalie in that position.  You still good with the call and the subsequent 'L' for the Bills?

Tough decision to make for the ref who doesn't have VAR.  But it is over, done, and WE ARE THE CHAMPS (queue Queen).

Yes. I would be good with the no call either way. I’ve made this same statement many times over the years regarding calls favoring the keeper regardless of the actual play. 
 

[courtside]

SLU had 7 corners and almost 10 shots in the first 35 minutes. And, many other chances that didn’t result in shots. Super narrow misses from Sawyer and a few others, and VCU’s keeper and back line often made the last line of defense clearance. A few goals there and it forces VCU to play an entirely different game. And it opens up their back line more.

VCU’s back line plays super deep. Often times the opportunities with them can be found in the middle of the field where SLU’s defensive and central midfield could have taken the space. If they give the space, you take the space. Making VCU move more East West in the final third was also more effective.

First touch/last touch for SLU could have been sharper more crisp. And SLU could have been stronger on the ball in the final third. 

VCU is organized, disciplined and well coached. Defended well. 

Good teams find ways to win games and bad teams find ways to lose games. SLU could have switched to a 4-1-3-2 in the 2nd half to create more offense. But the preference has been to defend, press, counter, knowing that SLU will eventually take a lead over 90 minutes. 

VCU will call it a 4-3-3 but it presents more as a 4-2-3-1. 

SLU ‘s goal was a 1v1 between Kelly and the defender, and it drifted towards the keeper. It’s a 50/50 play and call that went SLU’s way. You’d like to get other goals but I think SLU was a deserving game winner based on the run of the play and scoring chances during the game.

………………….

SLU’s RPI is now 8 after Thursday’s game. 

Nebraska is the gift that keeps giving with a 4-2 over Penn State. Michigan State are your unexpected Big 10 Champions. (very good 2nd year coach) And it means they swap in as a seeding competitor.

Arkansas had a draw and ND a road win to continue to be near the top of the SEC and ACC with top 10 or better RPI all season. 

Xavier is hanging in there at 32 despite struggling often to score this season. Georgetown is the Big East Champion. 

[Lord Elrond]

29 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Yes. I would be good with the no call either way. I’ve made this same statement many times over the years regarding calls favoring the keeper regardless of the actual play. 
 

I agree, the correct call was made, and yes, if the situation were reversed I would be ok with it. 

[Bills By 40]

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

 

SLU’s goal came with a little controversy but I think the ref got it right. A VCU clearance was played back in long to the center of the goal about 5 yards out from Sydney Beach. Caroline Kelly went for it as did the VCU keeper, the ball came free and Kelly put it in the back of the net. There was some contact between Kelly and the keep but it was a 50/50 ball and the more aggressive one with the contact was the Keep. Kelly didn’t move much. It’s a call that is frequently called on the offensive player but wrongly many times. The offensive player is allowed to go for the ball. It’s generally called as if the offensive player is required to move out of the way for the keeper. Kudos to the ref for getting it right and not doing the easy thing. 
 

Ref totally got it right from where I was sitting, keeper can't be fully above the law. She trucked through Kelly in the same way an opposing player runs through a hard screen on a fast break layup, not allowed. 

I'd also be okay with the call if the roles were reversed, especially after seeing the replay. 

 

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

The 2nd half VCU did better and was able to string together passes better and had more possession in the SLU defensive 3rd but really only 1 dangerous chance (a missed shot from an open player 12 ish yards out) and a couple of other opportunities but nothing really dangerous. 

That one scared the hell out of me but it was also the result of what I thought was a missed call on the VCU attacker. Thought it should've been a free kick going our way at the top of the box and had it resulted in a goal I would've been real mad. 

[RUBillsFan]

33 minutes ago, courtside said:

SLU’s RPI is now 8 after Thursday’s game. 

I know it will be tough to improve RPI the rest of the way because SLU isn't guaranteed to have any games against high RPI teams.  However, finishing top 8 in RPI would go a long way toward getting a top 8 seed.  That would allow SLU to host later round NCAA games would be a huge boon for the program.

St. Joes RPI is 250

I don't want to get too far ahead here, but what the heck this is a message board.  We should be rooting for Loyola (110) or LaSalle (112) to wind up in the #8 seed spot instead of Rhody (196), Fordham (257), or Richmond (289).  Then we'd prefer to get UMass (73), Davidson (84), or Duquesne (90) in the 2nd round and avoid St Joes (257).  In the A10 finals we'd want VCU (43) or Dayton (53).  Get lucky with higher RPI draws, win out, get a top 8 seed in the NCAAs and home field advantage until elite eight.  

[Lord Elrond]

I would like to see SLU get to host the 2nd/3rd round NCAA tournament, but I’m not sure we make the top 8 seeds to guarantee that even with an 8 RPI.  Like the Men’s Basketball selection process, there is a bias against the mid-majors. However, a path still exists, the team left standing after the 1st round with the higher seed gets to host, and higher ranked teams do lose to lower ranked ones all the time. But first things first - Beat St Joseph!  Then beat whoever comes out of the 5 way scrum for 8th spot in the A-10 QF. With all the ties this year, the A-10 may have to go far down the list of tiebreakers to determine seeding, especially if it’s a 3 way tie.

[BIG BILL FAN]

44 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

I agree, the correct call was made, and yes, if the situation were reversed I would be ok with it. 

no, that should have been a foul...the benefit of the doubt always goes to the keeper....the Bills were the better team, but they clearly had a questionable call at best go their way....

[billikenfan05]

22 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

no, that should have been a foul...the benefit of the doubt always goes to the keeper....the Bills were the better team, but they clearly had a questionable call at best go their way....

This wasn't a tie goes to the runner situation. Watch it again, Caroline Kelly was slowly drifting into the path of the ball and the keeper came out and actually misjudged the balls path. Not to mention 30 or 20(can't tell from the video) from VCU is backing into Kelly pushing her into the goalies path.

[slufanskip]

21 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

no, that should have been a foul...the benefit of the doubt always goes to the keeper....the Bills were the better team, but they clearly had a questionable call at best go their way....

No. Benefit of the doubt? Really. There shouldn’t have been doubt. The Keeper initiated the contact. No Kelly wasn’t completely still but the ball was in play with both players having a right to it. The contact was largely due to the keeper coming forward into Kelly I wouldn’t have called it on the Keeper either. The only thing Kelly could have done to avoid the contact was to move out of the keepers way. Sometimes legal contact happens 

[BIG BILL FAN]

6 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

No. Benefit of the doubt? Really. There shouldn’t have been doubt. The Keeper initiated the contact. No Kelly wasn’t completely still but the ball was in play with both players having a right to it. The contact was largely due to the keeper coming forward into Kelly I wouldn’t have called it on the Keeper either. The only thing Kelly could have done to avoid the contact was to move out of the keepers way. Sometimes legal contact happens 

you can't impede the goalie from going to the ball...it was a poor call...

[billikenfan05]

17 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

you can't impede the goalie from going to the ball...it was a poor call...

You can't just make a blanket statement like that. I doesn't work like that.

Again, the goalie completely misplayed the ball, she did not come out authoritatively and therefore didn't get to the ball. Caroline Kelly, while in the keepers way was forced there by the opposing defender. It's just like hockey goalie interference.

[slufanskip]

29 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

you can't impede the goalie from going to the ball...it was a poor call...

That statement is just incorrect. It implies that a player needs to clear out of the way if the keeper is going for the ball. 

[slufanskip]

16 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

You can't just make a blanket statement like that. I doesn't work like that.

Again, the goalie completely misplayed the ball, she did not come out authoritatively and therefore didn't get to the ball. Caroline Kelly, while in the keepers way was forced there by the opposing defender. It's just like hockey goalie interference.

It wouldn't matter if she was forced there or not though. She doesn't have to clear way for the keeper to go get the ball. I understand you get that though and are just making the point that she was forced into the path of the keeper. 

[RUBillsFan]

Just for reference here is the video:

 

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

It wouldn't matter if she was forced there or not though. She doesn't have to clear way for the keeper to go get the ball. I understand you get that though and are just making the point that she was forced into the path of the keeper. 

Correct, I think even if there's a question of goalie interference her being pushed into the position would answer it.