SLU Soccer 2017

[William Iken]

15 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

College soccer is in trouble in terms of recruiting top talent. Look at Josh Sargent - no way was he even a possibility for SLU. Look at the U-17 WC team, not one kid was going to a college program. Every single one was affiliated with an Academy system.

It's not about getting the best, it's about getting the best that are going to college. Who cares if the top talent isn't playing college soccer - so what, they don't play college baseball either. It's about recruiting who is playing...

...and we all know that means recruiting not necessary the most talented players but players that excel in the system. I haven't been to many matches in the last few years but when I did I saw a lot of talented individuals with little team play or coordination.

So I'd also agree it is also about getting the most out of the players you have - example UMass. International example, Northern Ireland. Look where they were when Michael O'Neill was hired, and now. About 110 places higher in the rankings. Good showing at the Euros and screwed out of a World Cup place. The team has players from Burton, Charlton Athletic and even Linfield! The Swiss team that just "beat" them in the playoff has players from AC Milan, Arsenal and others among the best teams in the world.

[Tilkowsky]

8 hours ago, William Iken said:

It's not about getting the best, it's about getting the best that are going to college. Who cares if the top talent isn't playing college soccer - so what, they don't play college baseball either. It's about recruiting who is playing...

...and we all know that means recruiting not necessary the most talented players but players that excel in the system. I haven't been to many matches in the last few years but when I did I saw a lot of talented individuals with little team play or coordination.

So I'd also agree it is also about getting the most out of the players you have - example UMass. International example, Northern Ireland. Look where they were when Michael O'Neill was hired, and now. About 110 places higher in the rankings. Good showing at the Euros and screwed out of a World Cup place. The team has players from Burton, Charlton Athletic and even Linfield! The Swiss team that just "beat" them in the playoff has players from AC Milan, Arsenal and others among the best teams in the world.

The best players that play college soccer are going to P-5 schools. How many times do I have to say that.

In the last thirty years only three times have schools comparable to SLU (Akron, UCSB, Santa Clara ) won a NCAA Division I Championship.

Nick Popovic who was the 2015 National High School Player of the Year from CBC went to IU.

Unfortunately Michael O'Neill didn't get enough out of his Northern Ireland side - they are not going to Russia and haven't been there since 1982 when Norman Whiteside (18 years old at the time) led them there.

Getting Northern Ireland 110 places higher was the easy part. Getting them to be one of the best 32 in the world is hard. Great they have shown dramatic improvement - but they still aren't going to the WC no matter what the FIFA rankings say.

 

 

 

 

[brianstl]

10 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

The best players that play college soccer are going to P-5 schools. How many times do I have to say that.

In the last thirty years only three times have schools comparable to SLU (Akron, UCSB, Santa Clara ) won a NCAA Division I Championship.

Nick Popovic who was the 2015 National High School Player of the Year from CBC went to IU.

Unfortunately Michael O'Neill didn't get enough out of his Northern Ireland side - they are not going to Russia and haven't been there since 1982 when Norman Whiteside (18 years old at the time) led them there.

Getting Northern Ireland 110 places higher was the easy part. Getting them to be one of the best 32 in the world is hard. Great they have shown dramatic improvement - but they still aren't going to the WC no matter what the FIFA rankings say.

 

 

 

 

Ten  non P5 or non Big East teams have finished runner up in the last 30 years.  38 times in the last 30 years non P5 or non Big East Schools advanced to the College Cup.  It has happened 11 times in the last 10 years.  

[Delboy]

9 hours ago, William Iken said:

It's not about getting the best, it's about getting the best that are going to college. Who cares if the top talent isn't playing college soccer - so what, they don't play college baseball either. It's about recruiting who is playing...

...and we all know that means recruiting not necessary the most talented players but players that excel in the system. I haven't been to many matches in the last few years but when I did I saw a lot of talented individuals with little team play or coordination.

So I'd also agree it is also about getting the most out of the players you have - example UMass. International example, Northern Ireland. Look where they were when Michael O'Neill was hired, and now. About 110 places higher in the rankings. Good showing at the Euros and screwed out of a World Cup place. The team has players from Burton, Charlton Athletic and even Linfield! The Swiss team that just "beat" them in the playoff has players from AC Milan, Arsenal and others among the best teams in the world.

It's Martin O'Neill, not Michael.

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Ten  non P5 or non Big East teams have finished runner up in the last 30 years.  38 times in the last 30 years non P5 or non Big East Schools advanced to the College Cup.  It has happened 11 times in the last 10 years.  

From the movie Top Gun: There are no points for second place

Or third or fourth for that matter.

[Tilkowsky]

9 minutes ago, Delboy said:

It's Martin O'Neill, not Michael.

Actually Martin O'Neill is the coach of Ireland. Michael O'Neill is the name of the coach of Northern Ireland.

[William Iken]

13 hours ago, Delboy said:

It's Martin O'Neill, not Michael.

It's Micheal. Wrong Ireland. But both O'Neills are from Northern Ireland. And internationals for Northern Ireland.

[William Iken]

14 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

The best players that play college soccer are going to P-5 schools. How many times do I have to say that.

In the last thirty years only three times have schools comparable to SLU (Akron, UCSB, Santa Clara ) won a NCAA Division I Championship.

Nick Popovic who was the 2015 National High School Player of the Year from CBC went to IU.

Unfortunately Michael O'Neill didn't get enough out of his Northern Ireland side - they are not going to Russia and haven't been there since 1982 when Norman Whiteside (18 years old at the time) led them there.

Getting Northern Ireland 110 places higher was the easy part. Getting them to be one of the best 32 in the world is hard. Great they have shown dramatic improvement - but they still aren't going to the WC no matter what the FIFA rankings say.

 

 

 

 

N.Ireland also qualified in 1986 (curiously both times well after George Best was past his prime).

But O'Neil qualified them for Euros, which is huge, and put on a good show there. And one bogus penalty away from the WC this year. It's a "country" of 1.5 million people. Think about that, about half the size of metro St. Louis. Think about that before speaking about all the "talent" you think the Stl produces...

[Tilkowsky]

27 minutes ago, William Iken said:

N.Ireland also qualified in 1986 (curiously both times well after George Best was past his prime).

But O'Neil qualified them for Euros, which is huge, and put on a good show there. And one bogus penalty away from the WC this year. It's a "country" of 1.5 million people. Think about that, about half the size of metro St. Louis. Think about that before speaking about all the "talent" you think the Stl produces...

Show me please where I said St. Louis produces all kinds of talent?

[William Iken]

29 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Show me please where I said St. Louis produces all kinds of talent?

Well, you do list a lot of St Louisans who didn't go to SLU... But in actual fact I changed "we" to "you" at the last second - I meant the St Louis soccer community (who seems to be stuck in the now very distant past), not you specifically.

[WUH]

1 hour ago, William Iken said:

N.Ireland also qualified in 1986 (curiously both times well after George Best was past his prime).

But O'Neil qualified them for Euros, which is huge, and put on a good show there. And one bogus penalty away from the WC this year. It's a "country" of 1.5 million people. Think about that, about half the size of metro St. Louis. Think about that before speaking about all the "talent" you think the Stl produces...

If St. Louis only had one sport...

If our kids had only sport more or less to play when they went outside to play with friends...

St. Louis would naturally produce far more soccer talent.

[William Iken]

17 minutes ago, WUH said:

If St. Louis only had one sport...

If our kids had only sport more or less to play when they went outside to play with friends...

St. Louis would naturally produce far more soccer talent.

If only Irish kids from the North only played football, and not rugby union, rugby league, Gaelic football, hurling and golf (home of Graeme McDowell, Darren Clarke and Rory McIlroy). It's also poor enough to still produce boxers. So point taken @WUH, but not exactly correct. In many parts of the North,  rugby rules. In other parts, Catholic communities in the North have traditionally shunned football in favour of the Gaelic games. Politics isn't far from sport in the North.

(I admit a slight bias as I born in the same wee town as Rory McIlroy)

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, William Iken said:

Well, you do list a lot of St Louisans who didn't go to SLU... But in actual fact I changed "we" to "you" at the last second - I meant the St Louis soccer community (who seems to be stuck in the now very distant past), not you specifically.

I mentioned two. Josh Sargent and Nick Popovic. Who else did I mention.

Two is not A LOT. At least in mind.

I mentioned Josh Sargent to show how elite talent doesn't go to college anymore.

I mentioned Nick Popovic to show elite talent that goes to college aren't interested in SLU.

 

[Bobby Metzinger]

29 minutes ago, William Iken said:

If only Irish kids from the North only played football, and not rugby union, rugby league, Gaelic football, hurling and golf (home of Graeme McDowell, Darren Clarke and Rory McIlroy). It's also poor enough to still produce boxers. So point taken @WUH, but not exactly correct. In many parts of the North,  rugby rules. In other parts, Catholic communities in the North have traditionally shunned football in favour of the Gaelic games. Politics isn't far from sport in the North.

(I admit a slight bias as I born in the same wee town as Rory McIlroy)

Northern Ireland is a sight to behold - if you are in Ireland, as I'm sure William iken will attest, Giant's Causeway might be the most beautiful thing my eyes have ever seen. Walking down Falls Road in Belfast was like going back in time; seeing the murals on the walls, glorifying those lost in the Troubles (sorry, quick edit there).  

[CenHudDude]

When we were in Ireland in September we took the political walking tour in Belfast.  Fascinating.  It is a 3 hour plus tour on both sides of the wall.  The Catholic (Nationalist) side is led by a former IRA prisoner tour guide.  The Protestant (Unionist) tour guide was a former Ulster Defense Forces prisoner.  It gives you the perspective of the "Troubles" from both sides. As we were leaving the Catholic side I asked the tour guide Seamus if he and the Protestant tour guide ever get together for a pint.  He said that they do meet each other from time to time, but on political issues, not for socialization. I would highly recommend the tour if you are ever in Northern Ireland.  

[Bay Area Billiken]

Of all the Sports, the SLU Soccer Coach really needs to be from St. Louis.

A review of SLU Soccer media guides from the 1980's shows that almost the whole SLU team consisted of home grown St. Louisans.  There are a few later exceptions, like the great Brian McBride, but the nucleus of the SLU teams was from St. Louis. 

When SLU won its 10 National Championships, the team was from St. Louis.

 

 

[billikenfan05]

7 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Of all the Sports, the SLU Soccer Coach really needs to be from St. Louis.

A review of SLU Soccer media guides from the 1980's shows that almost the whole SLU team consisted of home grown St. Louisans.  There are a few later exceptions, like the great Brian McBride, but the nucleus of the SLU teams was from St. Louis. 

When SLU won its 10 National Championships, the team was from St. Louis.

 

 

I kinda disagree. If you’re from St. Louis you have to play the political game in the scene here.

[Tilkowsky]

7 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Of all the Sports, the SLU Soccer Coach really needs to be from St. Louis.

A review of SLU Soccer media guides from the 1980's shows that almost the whole SLU team consisted of home grown St. Louisans.  There are a few later exceptions, like the great Brian McBride, but the nucleus of the SLU teams was from St. Louis. 

When SLU won its 10 National Championships, the team was from St. Louis.

 

 

I don't know if that could be replicated anymore.

Kids seem to want to go away to school as opposed to staying at home.

Even if you could do that not sure how good they would be.

 

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

14 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I kinda disagree. If you’re from St. Louis you have to play the political game in the scene here.

In the glory days of SLU Soccer, SLU had only 2 Coaches, Bob Guelker, who started the SLU program and then went to SIUe, and Harry Keough, who was the Coach when I was at SLU.  The best players in St. Louis almost invariably went to SLU as their #1 choice.  SLU had a built in de facto farm system, starting in the CYC, moving to the St. Louis Area Catholic high schools, but also covering the St. Louis Area public high schools.

In the glory days, one of SLU's best games was the annual scrimmage between the North Siders and the South Siders, who were both on the same SLU team.

In the glory days, SLU was known as the UCLA of College Soccer.  Although I have never understood what my St. Louis friends called the "nuances" of Soccer, SLU played what was known as the St. Louis Style, and the College Soccer World knew what that meant.

Joe Clarke kept the tradition alive.  The only outside Coach that really thrived at SLU was Bob Warming, in between his stints at Creighton.  

I'll say it again, the SLU Soccer Coach needs to be from St. Louis.

 

 

[slufanskip]

Why? St.Louis doesn' produce enough talent to have most of our roster from here. Soccer in the US has changed dramatically since SLU was the UCLA of soccer. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

6 hours ago, CenHudDude said:

When we were in Ireland in September we took the political walking tour in Belfast.  Fascinating.  It is a 3 hour plus tour on both sides of the wall.  The Catholic (Nationalist) side is led by a former IRA prisoner tour guide.  The Protestant (Unionist) tour guide was a former Ulster Defense Forces prisoner.  It gives you the perspective of the "Troubles" from both sides. As we were leaving the Catholic side I asked the tour guide Seamus if he and the Protestant tour guide ever get together for a pint.  He said that they do meet each other from time to time, but on political issues, not for socialization. I would highly recommend the tour if you are ever in Northern Ireland.  

That's amazing... wow. And to think we have a polarizing country here. This is an every second of every day thought of matters of life and death and literally being caught on the wrong side of the fence. Trying to think of a book I read back at SLU called the "Dirty Wars," the author escapes me at the moment, but the amount of turned UDF/Provie IRA agents, double-agents, etc. was just fascinating; while the book read at a solid pace, it was so hard to even keep track who's side people were on by the end. Indiscriminate killings, kidnappings were a daily occurrence at the height of the Troubles. County Armagh was probably one of the most dangerous places in the world during the 1980s. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

24 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Why? St.Louis doesn' produce enough talent to have most of our roster from here. Soccer in the US has changed dramatically since SLU was the UCLA of soccer. 

How can St. Louis not produce enough talent now when it clearly produced plenty of talent back then?  SLU and SIUe were both National Powers in D-1, both composed almost exclusively with St. Louis Area players.  Up River, Quincy, with a roster composed mostly of St. Louisans, was a National Power in the NAIA.

The key is hiring a coach from St. Louis and recruiting St. Louis.  Like in Basketball, SLU wins when the best local players stay home.

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

3 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

How can St. Louis not produce enough talent now when it clearly produced plenty of talent back then?  SLU and SIUe were both National Powers in D-1, both composed almost exclusively with St. Louis Area players.  Up River, Quincy, with a roster composed mostly of St. Louisans, was a National Power in the NAIA.

The key is hiring a coach from St. Louis and recruiting St. Louis.  Like in Basketball, SLU wins when the best local players stay home.

Best soccer players come from out of the country these days. This is a very old school line of thinking that would never work in today's game.

[almaman]

5 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

How can St. Louis not produce enough talent now when it clearly produced plenty of talent back then?  SLU and SIUe were both National Powers in D-1, both composed almost exclusively with St. Louis Area players.  Up River, Quincy, with a roster composed mostly of St. Louisans, was a National Power in the NAIA.

The key is hiring a coach from St. Louis and recruiting St. Louis.  Like in Basketball, SLU wins when the best local players stay home.

down river too wasn't CBC in Memphis full of St Louis players?

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 minute ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Best soccer players come from out of the country these days. This is a very old school line of thinking that would never work in today's game.

I disagree.  Back in the glory days, one of the other powers was the USF Dons, who had a lot of foreign players.  SLU more than held its own with USF.  Sometimes SLU beat USF, sometimes USF beat SLU.  

Who decided that SLU should give up on local recruiting?  At least the Coach should be from St. Louis.  I'm not saying the whole roster should be from St. Louis like in the glory days.  But there aren't enough local players on that SLU roster.  This also has had a severe adverse effect on Soccer attendance, wherein the attendance Is too often now measured in the low 3 figures.  SLU Soccer attendance is a mere shell of what it used to be. 

For that matter, SLU Soccer is a mere shell of what it used to be.  When I was at SLU, merely making the NCAA Playoffs, most assuredly, was not the goal.  And I came on board after the 10 NCAA Championships.  But SLU had great players when I was at SLU:  Ty Keough, Don Huber, Larry Hulcer, Steve Sullivan, and from my class John Hayes and Mark Fredrickson, who lived on our Cellblock 6G and was an excellent guard on our intramural basketball team.  From the class below me was Bill McKeon.  All of those guys were from St. Louis.