St. Louis Area Players

[kshoe]

Interesting article:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/st-louis-area-keeps-producing-some-top-notch-nba-talent/article_ca153834-74f3-5144-87a5-e228700066e0.html

I particularly like this part:

In a recent study produced by Deadspin.com, St. Louis scored well in producing professional basketball players.

Using the hometowns of 3,802 NBA and ABA players from the BasketballReference.com database, Deadspin found the not surprising trio of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles as hotbeds for the most players among metro areas.

But it is surprising that St. Louis ranked eighth among the top metro areas in terms of players per million inhabitants. Using 2010 population figures, St. Louis trails only Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Washington D.C., Los Angeles and San Francisco.

The area ranks ahead of more well-known basketball communities like Baltimore, Atlanta, Seattle, Dallas, Minneapolis, Houston, Miami, Boston and Phoenix.

Last fall in a thread on here we basically showed that the St. Louis region produces college basketball players at an "average" pace to the country and this shows NBA players are produced at a higher pace then the rest of the country (albeit with a small sample size). Needless to say, the St. Louis area plays some pretty good ball.

[cgeldmacher]

That number will go up when McClemore gets into the League and if Otto Porter's home town is considered St. Louis and if B.J. Young ends up on an NBA team.

[Cowboy]

-just reading the excerpt Kshoe posted and I wonder where Memphis is, I would have thought they had a good history as well

-and if they went back to ABA days, wow, that is a long time ago, ah The Spirits

[ACE]

Interesting article:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/st-louis-area-keeps-producing-some-top-notch-nba-talent/article_ca153834-74f3-5144-87a5-e228700066e0.html

I particularly like this part:

In a recent study produced by Deadspin.com, St. Louis scored well in producing professional basketball players.

Using the hometowns of 3,802 NBA and ABA players from the BasketballReference.com database, Deadspin found the not surprising trio of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles as hotbeds for the most players among metro areas.

But it is surprising that St. Louis ranked eighth among the top metro areas in terms of players per million inhabitants. Using 2010 population figures, St. Louis trails only Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Washington D.C., Los Angeles and San Francisco.

The area ranks ahead of more well-known basketball communities like Baltimore, Atlanta, Seattle, Dallas, Minneapolis, Houston, Miami, Boston and Phoenix.

Last fall in a thread on here we basically showed that the St. Louis region produces college basketball players at an "average" pace to the country and this shows NBA players are produced at a higher pace then the rest of the country (albeit with a small sample size). Needless to say, the St. Louis area plays some pretty good ball.

Was this a haymaker sent in Taj's direction?

[kshoe]

Was this a haymaker sent in Taj's direction?

I did bold one particular city , but in fairness Taj dropped his case that St. Louis was inferior last fall so really this is just more an affirmation that we play average to above average highschool ball here.

[Taj79]

I had dropped that as I promised when corrected in that fall thread. This reaffirms the facts that countered my side of that. Old story, no news. Thanks kshoe.

@ACE --- thanks for the assist, but that was about as subtle as a direct poke in the eye. So,yeah, I got it. Again, last fall ended that argument for me. It is kind of flattering to live on in infamy --- by the way, my birthday is December 7th.

[wgstl]

and once rayshawn simmons goes pro you can add another

[ACE]

I had dropped that as I promised when corrected in that fall thread. This reaffirms the facts that countered my side of that. Old story, no news. Thanks kshoe.

@ACE --- thanks for the assist, but that was about as subtle as a direct poke in the eye. So,yeah, I got it. Again, last fall ended that argument for me. It is kind of flattering to live on in infamy --- by the way, my birthday is December 7th.

Taj, since it appears that debate is now closed, if you get bored this offseason and want to get into a good argument, just say that Jordair can't shoot the mid-range shot. That will get me to show up for a good tussle.

[wgstl]

and drew hanlen if he was two inches taller

[slufanskip]

I guess this is a good place for this ....Caleb Greenwalt who was my very first client that I started giving private shooting lessons to when he was in 8th grade signed today getting a scholarship from Harris Stowe to play for Phil Hunt. He had some other offers but really liked Phil and the ability to stay close to home and play in front of family and friends plus he'll have a chance to play early. This should end any question regarding the high level of talent coming out of St. Louis.

[Taj79]

@ACE --- I have the stats on JJ for all last year. I also have the stats on GG, if you want to go that route. From what I can tell,the only real thing hampering JJ is that there is no evidence of a graduation degree from Skip's Jump Shooting School for the Gifted. Until he gets that, call me unimpressed.

Bait taken.

[slufanskip]

@ACE --- I have the stats on JJ for all last year. I also have the stats on GG, if you want to go that route. From what I can tell,the only real thing hampering JJ is that there is no evidence of a graduation degree from Skip's Jump Shooting School for the Gifted. Until he gets that, call me unimpressed.

Bait taken.

Taj, I'm firmly in your corner with JJ, the eye test rarely lies.

What even kills me more is that kids like JJ who if they added a solid 3 point shot (not the one that he throws up from 5 feet behind the line and hit's once in a while because no one cares if he shoots it) would be almost unstoppable. Just think if JJ was a real threat to catch and shoot from the line ..... why doesn't someone at some point make these kids learn to shoot.

GG, call me in the unsure camp. It's entirely possible that his shoulder injury was severly hampering his form. However, if that nwasn't it and what he showed last year really is his true form ... he won't be a very dangerous offensive threat. I don't care about his 50% shooting on 3 shots a game.

[Littlebill]

I guess this is a good place for this ....Caleb Greenwalt who was my very first client that I started giving private shooting lessons to when he was in 8th grade signed today getting a scholarship from Harris Stowe to play for Phil Hunt. He had some other offers but really liked Phil and the ability to stay close to home and play in front of family and friends plus he'll have a chance to play early. This should end any question regarding the high level of talent coming out of St. Louis.

SO HARRIS STOWE CAN GET LOCAL GUYS TO STAY HOME BUT WE CAN'T?!?!?!?!??!

[jbizzle09]

@ACE --- I have the stats on JJ for all last year. I also have the stats on GG, if you want to go that route. From what I can tell,the only real thing hampering JJ is that there is no evidence of a graduation degree from Skip's Jump Shooting School for the Gifted. Until he gets that, call me unimpressed.

Bait taken.

Here are JJ's stats for last season:

3 pt shots: 12-36 = .333

2 pt jumpers: 25-63 = .397

layups/dunks/tip-ins: 76-112 = .679

Total: 113-221 = .511

So, basically he shoots 40% on his mid-range jumpers and 33% on his treys. Obviously, his strength is finishing at the hoop (that percentage is insane, especially for a 6'1" guard.) But 40% from the mid-range is perfectly acceptable. That is pretty much all you can ask from any guard. He shoots about 2 mid-rangers and 1 three-pointer a game. He makes enough of them to keep his defender honest so that he can still make room to drive the lane, which is definitely the best part of his offensive game. The shot may not 'look' good, and can definitely be improved upon, but his percentage is what it needs to be to be effective.

[ACE]

Here are JJ's stats for last season:

3 pt shots: 12-36 = .333

2 pt jumpers: 25-63 = .397

layups/dunks/tip-ins: 76-112 = .679

Total: 113-221 = .511

So, basically he shoots 40% on his mid-range jumpers and 33% on his treys. Obviously, his strength is finishing at the hoop (that percentage is insane, especially for a 6'1" guard.) But 40% from the mid-range is perfectly acceptable. That is pretty much all you can ask from any guard. He shoots about 2 mid-rangers and 1 three-pointer a game. He makes enough of them to keep his defender honest so that he can still make room to drive the lane, which is definitely the best part of his offensive game. The shot may not 'look' good, and can definitely be improved upon, but his percentage is what it needs to be to be effective.

Excellent research. Solid numbers. In addition to shooting a solid percentage from mid-range, it seems JJ has a knack for getting a lot of shots from there. It seems most guards either shoot threes or score on drives. The mid-range shot is a lost art. I wonder how his attempts compare to other guards.

[slufanskip]

Here are JJ's stats for last season:

3 pt shots: 12-36 = .333

2 pt jumpers: 25-63 = .397

layups/dunks/tip-ins: 76-112 = .679

Total: 113-221 = .511

So, basically he shoots 40% on his mid-range jumpers and 33% on his treys. Obviously, his strength is finishing at the hoop (that percentage is insane, especially for a 6'1" guard.) But 40% from the mid-range is perfectly acceptable. That is pretty much all you can ask from any guard. He shoots about 2 mid-rangers and 1 three-pointer a game. He makes enough of them to keep his defender honest so that he can still make room to drive the lane, which is definitely the best part of his offensive game. The shot may not 'look' good, and can definitely be improved upon, but his percentage is what it needs to be to be effective.

He averaged 9.0 ppg. He shot 3 non drives a game shooting 33% and 39% by your figures. He also shot what about 60% from the line? I can clearly see I was wrong, his perimiter shot is fine.

Until he improves his form he'll never shoot 6-8 perimiter shots a game and until he can do that he'll always be a border line 10ppg scorer. Now, does that make him a bad player? Nope, but it does make him a player that will never be as good as he can be.

[slufanskip]

Excellent research. Solid numbers. In addition to shooting a solid percentage from mid-range, it seems JJ has a knack for getting a lot of shots from there. It seems most guards either shoot threes or score on drives. The mid-range shot is a lost art. I wonder how his attempts compare to other guards.

A knack for getting a lot of mid range jumpers? He shot 1.8 midrange shots per game and 1 3pt shot a game for less than 3 shots a game from the perimiter.

Why does he shoot so few attempts if his perimiter shot is fine?

[billiken_roy]

SO HARRIS STOWE CAN GET CALEB GREENWALT TO STAY HOME BUT WE CAN'T?!?!?!?!??!

fixed it

[slufanskip]

fixed it

Just to clear this up. Caleb would have stayed home to go to SLU.

[moytoy12]

A knack for getting a lot of mid range jumpers? He shot 1.8 midrange shots per game and 1 3pt shot a game for less than 3 shots a game from the perimiter.

Why does he shoot so few attempts if his perimiter shot is fine?

Maybe because he's also dishing out more assists on the team than anyone else? Jesus, can't believe i'm getting drawn into this debate. The facts have shown the past three years that JJ has a fine jumper. He probably also happened to be our best pure pg last year.

[jbizzle09]

He averaged 8.6 ppg. He shot 3 non drives a game shooting 33% and 39% by your figures. He also shot what about 60% from the line? I can clearly see I was wrong, his perimiter shot is fine.

Until he improves his form he'll never shoot 6-8 perimiter shots a game and until he can do that he'll always be a border line 10ppg scorer. Now, does that make him a bad player? Nope, but it does make him a player that will never be as good as he can be.

He averaged 9.0 PPG. And if you want to go further into semantics, you round up, not down, so it would be 40% from mid-range, not 39%.

My whole point to all of this is to show he isn't 'bad' from that range. Those percentages fall in line with what is expected from those ranges at this level. Now, there is the whole other conversation about if he can improve that shot and become a next-level type of player. It seems that per your vantage point, as he is a guard, he should be taking a higher percentage of his shots from the perimeter (say 6-8 shots per game). Right now, more than half of his FG attempts are at the rim. But I would argue that he is a different kind of guard and is taking advantage of his strengths.

Now, if he was a better shooter from the perimeter, could he be a top scorer on the team or in the conference, and maybe see his name mentioned as a possible NBA prospect? Sure, of course he could. But who can't this be said of? If Cody hit more than 33% of his threes, he'd be a potential NBA prospect. I think this is a situation where you see just how good Jett is at driving the lane, playing defense and showing court vision at the point and want to see him add that extra dimension as a top-notch shooter. I'd love to see that too, but I'd love to see every player that comes through SLU go on to play at the next level. Some players just can't be who you want them to be, no matter how much you wish that to be.

[jimbofive]

Excellent research. Solid numbers. In addition to shooting a solid percentage from mid-range, it seems JJ has a knack for getting a lot of shots from there. It seems most guards either shoot threes or score on drives. The mid-range shot is a lost art. I wonder how his attempts compare to other guards.

ACE, good follow-up analysis. I've actually done a breakdown of some of your can collection tendencies:

• 78% of the cans you find are beer, compared to 21% soft drink and 1% other. this is indicative of you hanging out in seedier areas of town, and not around schools so much. good stats.
• 68% of your beer cans are "light beers". not surprising considering you're going for volume, and those are easier to put down.
• a resounding 93% of your cans come with the tabs still attached. that may sound trivial, but it can add up to a couple percentage points in overall weight.
• only 12% of your beers need to be emptied somewhat before collection, and of those, you only emptied 34% by drinking the dregs. pretty solid stats, helps you stay nimble and coherent for efficient collection.
• you average a low 1.4 MIA (Move-It-Alongs) per day by law enforcement officials. indicates that you don't take a lot of unnecessary risks, not emptying trash cans at the metro during the day, etc.

​That's all I've got for now, but I think we can all agree, ACE is definitely Billikens.com's MVCC (Most Valuable Can Collector)

[jbizzle09]

ACE, good follow-up analysis. I've actually done a breakdown of some of your can collection tendencies:

• 78% of the cans you find are beer, compared to 21% soft drink and 1% other. this is indicative of you hanging out in seedier areas of town, and not around schools so much. good stats.
• 68% of your beer cans are "light beers". not surprising considering you're going for volume, and those are easier to put down.
• a resounding 93% of your cans come with the tabs still attached. that may sound trivial, but it can add up to a couple percentage points in overall weight.
• only 12% of your beers need to be emptied somewhat before collection, and of those, you only emptied 34% by drinking the dregs. pretty solid stats, helps you stay nimble and coherent for efficient collection.
• you average a low 1.4 MIA (Move-It-Alongs) per day by law enforcement officials. indicates that you don't take a lot of unnecessary risks, not emptying trash cans at the metro during the day, etc.

​That's all I've got for now, but I think we can all agree, ACE is definitely Billikens.com's MVCC (Most Valuable Can Collector)

What is the percentage of cans that are 'tall boys'? And, are 16 oz. cans considered 'tall boys', or only 24 oz. and above?

[slufanskip]

He averaged 9.0 PPG. And if you want to go further into semantics, you round up, not down, so it would be 40% from mid-range, not 39%.

My whole point to all of this is to show he isn't 'bad' from that range. Those percentages fall in line with what is expected from those ranges at this level. Now, there is the whole other conversation about if he can improve that shot and become a next-level type of player. It seems that per your vantage point, as he is a guard, he should be taking a higher percentage of his shots from the perimeter (say 6-8 shots per game). Right now, more than half of his FG attempts are at the rim. But I would argue that he is a different kind of guard and is taking advantage of his strengths.

Now, if he was a better shooter from the perimeter, could he be a top scorer on the team or in the conference, and maybe see his name mentioned as a possible NBA prospect? Sure, of course he could. But who can't this be said of? If Cody hit more than 33% of his threes, he'd be a potential NBA prospect. I think this is a situation where you see just how good Jett is at driving the lane, playing defense and showing court vision at the point and want to see him add that extra dimension as a top-notch shooter. I'd love to see that too, but I'd love to see every player that comes through SLU go on to play at the next level. Some players just can't be who you want them to be, no matter how much you wish that to be.

I changed the percentage, I got it from a site other than SLU's my bad. It wasn't to mislead by cheating him at of 1/2 pt a game

He shoots less than 3 shots a game not at the rim. Why?

The question wasn't whether he's a good player, it was whether he's a good perimiter shooter and he isn't. Hell, he shoots 62% from the line. In case it's not clear, that's from 12 feet with no one guarding him.

Look, I love JJ and I love his strengths. I said a few years ago he had the best vision on the team and if he could do a better job of not forcing the issue too much, he was potentially the best pg on the team.

[jimbofive]

What is the percentage of cans that are 'tall boys'? And, are 16 oz. cans considered 'tall boys', or only 24 oz. and above?

well, in light of the newfound prevalence of 16 oz'ers, i'm inclined to call those "tall boys", and the TWO FOURS "master cylinders". that leaves the fantastically terrible 32 oz miller high lifes and fosters as "quartez the killerz"