St. Louis Area Players

[moytoy12]

I changed the percentage, I got it from a site other than SLU's my bad. It wasn't to mislead by cheating him at of 1/2 pt a game

He shoots less than 3 shots a game not at the rim. Why?

The question wasn't whether he's a good player, it was whether he's a good perimiter shooter and he isn't. Hell, he shoots 62% from the line. In case it's not clear, that's from 12 feet with no one guarding him.

Look, I love JJ and I love his strengths. I said a few years ago he had the best vision on the team and if he could do a better job of not forcing the issue too much, he was potentially the best pg on the team.

33% from three and 39-40% from 2 point perimeter shots. Those aren't Hardaway Jr. numbers, but i'd at least call them average at worst.

[slufanskip]

33% from three and 39-40% from 2 point perimeter shots. Those aren't Hardaway Jr. numbers, but i'd at least call them average at worst.

How about approx 62% from the line?

Look he shoots less than 3 shots a f..king game besides lay-ups. Do you wonder why?

[jbizzle09]

I changed the percentage, I got it from a site other than SLU's my bad. It wasn't to mislead by cheating him at of 1/2 pt a game

He shoots less than 3 shots a game not at the rim. Why?

The question wasn't whether he's a good player, it was whether he's a good perimiter shooter and he isn't. Hell, he shoots 62% from the line. In case it's not clear, that's from 12 feet with no one guarding him.

Look, I love JJ and I love his strengths. I said a few years ago he had the best vision on the team and if he could do a better job of not forcing the issue too much, he was potentially the best pg on the team.

My issue has mostly been with Taj saying his mid-range jumper is not good. I am not making the case that Jett has a GOOD perimeter game. I am making the case that his mid-range jumper is adequate. It definitely isn't his main strength, but he is adequate enough at it that it isn't a detriment, either. Obviously, if he was a better shooter, he'd take more shots from beyond the three-point line or even from mid-range. My case is more to show that he isn't harming the team when he shoots from those areas, and that his percentages are in line with what you expect from there. I am not arguing that he is a great or even good shooter. More that he isn't a bad shooter, that he is good enough.

P.S. The free throw line is 15 ft, not 12 ft. I'd expect a basketball coach to know that!

[moytoy12]

How about approx 62% from the line?

Look he shoots less than 3 shots a f..king game besides lay-ups. Do you wonder why?

Yep, the FT% needs to improve to say the least. Although, he was pretty clutch from the line late in the year. Yes, he took less than 3 perimeter shots a game because he was more effective driving to the hoop and/or assisting other players. He's not a bad perimeter shooter as has been the charge levied against JJ on this board, mostly by Taj.

[slufanskip]

My issue has mostly been with Taj saying his mid-range jumper is not good. I am not making the case that Jett has a GOOD perimeter game. I am making the case that his mid-range jumper is adequate. It definitely isn't his main strength, but he is adequate enough at it that it isn't a detriment, either. Obviously, if he was a better shooter, he'd take more shots from beyond the three-point line or even from mid-range. My case is more to show that he isn't harming the team when he shoots from those areas, and that his percentages are in line with what you expect from there. I am not arguing that he is a great or even good shooter. More that he isn't a bad shooter, that he is good enough.

P.S. The free throw line is 15 ft, not 12 ft. I'd expect a basketball coach to know that!

No doubt on the feet lol. I don't know why I had 12 feet in my head.

I'll just say this. JJ's ability to be a 15 pt per game scorer is dependant on him making people respect his jumper. His outside/perimiter/midrange jumper hurt his game because defenders back off of him and give him the outside shot and he still rarely takes it. The raw percentages don't tell the entire story because with just 63 midrange shots a game 2-3 more misses or makes changes the percentage significantly. Teams defend JJ differently because he isn't a threat to score away from the rim.

Take Yadi and stolen base attempts, the story isn't 40% caught ... the story is that the attempts are about 50% of the attempts against most catchers.

[Taj79]

I can go with "adequate." Why use a mid-range jumper when you can blow by and finish at the rim as JJ does.

I can go with "average at worst" for the same reason as above.

Based on the body of work to date, I will not upgrade to "good." My premise is that if he took more mid-range jumpers,the form and style suggest the percentage will come down. But that is pure speculation, once again dying to be proven wrong.

I'll back off "bad" if I said that, and I probably did at some point. (Someone will pull the citation, I'm sure).

Two items others brought up to debate the "eye" test ----- #1) 63 jumpers on the season equal about two per game. Therefore, he's not a jump shooter. And #2) you ever watch where his man is on defense? About five feet off him mostly. Why? To deny him what he does best --- drive and finish --- either at the rim or dishing off. If I were the opposing coach, that would be the poison I would pick when up against JJ as well.

And one thing about his free throws ---- in each of the past two years, it SEEMS he gets better as the season wears on. I have less problems with him on the line late in games in February and March than I do in November and December. Anyone else see that?

[kshoe]

Anybody got stats on how many mid range jumpers others on the team shot per game and what their percentages were? Guys like MM, KM, CE, RL, etc.

Seems like that might be helpful info in trying to determine if JJ shoots enough/too many mid range jumpers and whether he makes enough of them.

[billiken_roy]

pitino (and i believe rickma echoed) says the mid range jumper is the worst value shot to be taking. slick rick says if you cant dunk shoot a three.

[JettFlight5]

pitino (and i believe rickma echoed) says the mid range jumper is the worst value shot to be taking. slick rick says if you cant dunk shoot a three.

Didn't SI run the piece last season about that? How Majerus's defense was built off of taking away the 3 point shot?

[Taj79]

Kshoe's stat query would appear to be right on. The couple that with roy's input. Ours is not a team likely high in mid-range shooting attempts. For the last two years at least, it has been one predominantly built on the three point shot (McCall, Ellis, Loe, Mitchell, Barnett) designed to force the defense out of the lane to cover, thereby allowing the interior big (Conklin, Evans) to operate with little to no fear of a double down. This same stretched defense then allows JJ to do what he does best and drive to finish at the rim. The best demonstrations of this were the Xavier games of 2012 (Conklin) and last year's second half against Fordham (Evans).

Right now, not knowing anything more, I'm wondering if Jett's 63 jumpers attempted might have been tops on the team? I think I'll take that statistical roundup on, unless someone already can answer it.

That would seem to indicate that this year's need will be the complete inverse to last years. Last year the question was who would replace the inside game of Conklin? Now, it appears who is going to take up the slack left by the Ellis/Mitchell graduations?

[ACE]

Kshoe's stat query would appear to be right on. The couple that with roy's input. Ours is not a team likely high in mid-range shooting attempts. For the last two years at least, it has been one predominantly built on the three point shot (McCall, Ellis, Loe, Mitchell, Barnett) designed to force the defense out of the lane to cover, thereby allowing the interior big (Conklin, Evans) to operate with little to no fear of a double down. This same stretched defense then allows JJ to do what he does best and drive to finish at the rim. The best demonstrations of this were the Xavier games of 2012 (Conklin) and last year's second half against Fordham (Evans).

Right now, not knowing anything more, I'm wondering if Jett's 63 jumpers attempted might have been tops on the team? I think I'll take that statistical roundup on, unless someone already can answer it.

That would seem to indicate that this year's need will be the complete inverse to last years. Last year the question was who would replace the inside game of Conklin? Now, it appears who is going to take up the slack left by the Ellis/Mitchell graduations?

That would be my guess. We lose the North Texas game if JJ doesn't make a bunch of mid-range shots. Crews has said that while his shot is unorthodox, it is a good release. He has gotten a little better every year and even hit a few timely 3-pointers last year. Hopefully he can continue to build on that and make other teams respect his outside shot.

[cgeldmacher]

That would be my guess. We lose the North Texas game if JJ doesn't make a bunch of mid-range shots. Crews has said that while his shot is unorthodox, it is a good release. He has gotten a little better every year and even hit a few timely 3-pointers last year. Hopefully he can continue to build on that and make other teams respect his outside shot.

JJ is already outstanding at taking the ball to the rim with teams not going out of their way to guard his perimeter shot. Imagine if they had to respect his outside shot and guard him more closely on the perimeter.