SLURadioBoy Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I know people are tired of all the Mizzou stuff on our board (as am I), but I had to post this! I guess most MU fans think SLU cheated in the Romar & Dollar days since they got caught at Washington. I can understand their reasoning in this, but if we cheated, don't you think we would have gotten better players under the Lorenzo regime???!!! http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-...message=1538397 "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 They're just jealous because we have a winning program. These guys are jealous of our success and whining about it. "SLU gets players that actually play they must be cheating. Wahh." I heard that Tony Harvey was the M.P. Platoon Sergeant at Abu Gharib Prison. Results from that investigation are still forthcoming. Wait until the Post Dispatch gets ahold of that one. Let's see how they whine about conspiracy theories then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Some MOO fans are pissed the Post can not easily poke into financial records and call logs at SLU like they did at Columbia, a situation that has been unchanged since the 1800s. Private college, public university. The fallacy exposed here is a logic prevalent in third grade - in order to be caught, you first need to break the rules. Not only do you need to break the rules, but if you do it repeatedly, eggregiously, get warned not to do it, do it again, get punished for doing it the first time, and then do it yet again...heck, it makes your head spin. The problem lies with Q and the rules breaking, not with the Post figuring out the rules were broken. The second problem lies with recruiting atheletes of character, not atheletes with character. 24 credits hours in six weeks should throw up a red flag for any university. Many people in Columbia learn advanced two step at an early age, ie we want the Post to cover the positive side of our sports program extensively, but totally ignore the negative. Isn't it great we are educating and supporting the poor Rickey Clemons, vs drop the bastard. A preseason To 4 team in the country, vs...well, reality. Q is the country's best recruiter, vs he is a lousy bench coach. The third problem MOO has is one of comprehension. Their uber spinmeisters are people like Drecar and MU4ever, the former a son-in-law of the late(and great) Devine. He has never met logic outside of his own private universe. In his world, MOO has only been cited for 9 violations, not 57. Unable to reason the difference between 9 areas of violations versus 57 individual violations, Drecar continues to run at Bernie M's side, tugging on Bernie's shirt and jumping up and down. The ironic item here is these folks totally ignore national writers citing 57 violations, and concentrate solely on local writers that get the "9 violations" wrong. Far too much koolaid! Although I get great amusement watching the Koolaid MOO fans flail away at providing justifications for their cheating ways, it leaves me longing for a bath by the end of the day. It is incomprehensible that fans can't step up and just say "We want a clean program that kicks ass." With the resources that Mizzou has, it won't be that hard. No blame to go around, no conspiracy theories, no axes to grind. Just an outstanding program, no shortcuts taken substance over style. Come to think of it, SLU is closer to this scene than Mizzou at this point. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 we will soon see how "good" of a recruiter $nyder really is. after reading the allegations report, it is no wonder kids flocked to mi$$ouri. scenario before, illegal wining and dining of aau and high school coaches to get those influences in the tiger$ corner. second, illegal transportation and housing on the prospective recruits "UNOFFICIAL" visits. easy to see the recruit thinkig after that, "hey no one else treated me that well." illegal meals and extras like movies in their rooms. again, the recruit is bound to remember the "little touches" that no one else gave them. the point is, sure these infractions all by themselves seem trivial and silly. but put them in the context of recruiting a player and think about the perception to the athlete being wooed. it is easy to see the advantage that snyder created for himself. cant blame the athlete. they dont know that huge rulebook and shouldnt be expected to know what they can or cannot receive. and when it isnt something obvious like cash, why would they have expected otherwise? that said, $nyder knew it was illegal. and the fact he broke the rules so many times is all the proof that is needed to send him to another profession imo. before, i had assumed that snyder pretty much let odom and harvey do the dirty work. disgusting thought, but still his hands were cleaner. now that it has been revealed that snyder did his own share of the dirty work, it seems obvious to me that the tiger$ entire staff should go. if not, they risk becoming the program everyone compares to when transgressions appear in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken75 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 What I find interesting is the Mizzou contempt and blame on the Post-Dispatch. Hey, isn't the purpose of journalism to find out and report wrong-doing and coverups? And if this is Post-Dispatch conspiracy, why is the football program treated so well? maybe because Pinkel is a stand-up guy and has created a program the right way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Watergate was the fault of the Washington Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Anyone and everyone that has investigated the MOO program has been covered with kaka. Illinois had a parallel situation with Deon Thomas. The AD right down the line stood up to the NCAA, and they got SLAMMED with loss of institutional control. MOO has fired its two lead assistants, probably in an effort to "prove" it takes the allegations seriously. They are now preparing to do the same defense as Illinois did, fighting everything tooth and nail. Will they get slammed in similar fashion? There currently is one major violation on the ground, and I think the NCAA will be inclined to take at least one more set of "minor violations," the illegal contacts, and categorize them as major. I say this because of the cited illegal Clemons contact at an Idaho game. The NCAA had let a previous TWELVE MINUTE contact with Richard McBride and Igl... slide, and they got pissed when the back channel warning was ignored. It is still much too early for MOO fans to celebrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 "They are now preparing to do the same defense as Illinois did, fighting everything tooth and nail." Do you just make this stuff up? Everything I have heard and read suggests that MU is going to fight very little, if anything, other than the allegation that Harvey paid Clemons $250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Sheltiedave makes a lot of stuff up, but hopes you won't notice in the midst of his long winded diatribes using unnecessarily complex prose in an attempt to appear smarter than those around him. How many assistants were "fired" again? You wanna read the articles instead of the headlines, sheltie? Or since you like to characterize folks by their screen names (which i suppose is sort of cute), "woof woof, sheltie!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I suggest you all read Stu's article in the Post today. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...come+for+Mizzou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 You must be referring to this: "Missouri is in the process of responding to the allegations, and chancellor Richard Wallace said the university will dispute some charges." I would suggest that this statement is more in line with what I stated that I had heard then SD's off the cuff remark that MU was going to fight everthing tooth and nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 on his own do you? Harvey will be fired in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 It seems Mizzery fans were expecting the worst in this investigation, i.e. lots of cash envelopes flying around the Tigers locker room and players getting free passes in the classroom. The report comes out and cites no such misdeeds. So what does the ardent Mizzery fan do, he screams, "Hallelujah, We're exonerated!" Whoaaa, Nellie, not so quick according to Stu. It's a perilous road out there. If 57 secondary violations don't add up to continued utter disregard and disrespect for the rules, what does? A 157...257...? I wonder if they are also going to take into consideration that Q-tip and the boys had already been informed the numerous calls to Conley were a "secondary" violation, yet these band of merry coaches continued to snub their noses at the rule book. I wonder if Q and staff ever took the rule book out of it's envelope? But the real fault in all of this lies with Mizzery's administrators, and I'm not talking the compliance office, it's the big cheeses. They should clean house; Alden, Q-tip, Karen...everyone! But I think they're afraid of seeing the program completely crumble for a couple of years and imagining a bunch of empty seats and skyboxes at the Paige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 If anyone thinks that Mizzou is only going to fight the one allegation of a single $250 cash payment, then they are dating Pollyana. We have already seen MOO's partial defense in Conley's contacts. They were calling the mother, and played phone tag, and merely forgot to properly log all the phone calls. There were a lot of I forgots and I was unconsious and I did not knows swirling around the program. Technically, Odom was not fired. I apologize for saying he was. He was pushed out the door, and displayed the grace and class to formally resign. Your other assistant coach (and head coach)evidently is not going to follow Odom's lead, and at some time his story may change. Would either of the Mizzou fans here care to respond as to Harvey's level of honesty now, for the record, before he starts singing? Neither of you were around for Illinois' debacle. For the record, these investigations are not pretty, and once the NCaa cites a program for a major violation the program intends to dispute, the fat lady warms up her vocal cords. The NCAA has very few investigators, and they have been camped in Mizzou's posterior cavity for some time. Guys, it is time for you to realize this game can break either way, and the odds of the stench dissapating? Small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 MOO fans, a view from your own backyard. Too much koolaid tends to distort what you may perceive as reality. If you don't agree with us, well, here is another to put on your idiot list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 >I can understand their reasoning in >this, but if we cheated, don't you think we would have >gotten better players under the Lorenzo regime???!!! No, not necessarily. Look how much underhanded stuff Quin Snyder has done at Missouri, yet he's finished no higher than fifth in the Big XII and squandered more talent than any coach I've ever seen. That doesn't mean, however, that I think Lorenzo Romar (actually, Cameron Dollar) cheated while at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLURadioBoy Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 I understand what you're saying Thicks, but MU has struggled due to the abilities of their coach, not because of lack of talent. Lorenzo is a good game coach, imo, but he never landed any "big-time recruits." The best recruit he probably got talent-wise was Edwin. I would think if there was that much scandal going on at West Pine we would have gotten more talent than Seyfert and Varner. "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I agree that if Lorenzo was cheating at SLU then he would have gotten better talent. The screw up at WU was that Cameron was trying to make up for lost ground - late hiring and all - and the university put alot of pressure on Zo and Dollar to make a big impact. Once the stuff got out - Zo did the right thing and owned up to it and punished Dollar. Given the situation, that was the best he could do. As far as him being a good game coach - I disagree with that. Zo did not have any big wins while he was here - the victory over Cincy in the tourney was due only to the broken leg of their center - sorry his name escapes me now - and the fact that it was a senior loaded team that knew how to respond and decided that they wanted to go out a winner is what made the difference. I am not sure his coaching had much to do with it because we quickly regressed the next year when the seniors were all gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Time for my quarterly shot at Zo. He failed to build on the momentum he had after the miracle in Memphis. I really think he had an NCAA team the next year with Mo, Baniak, Tatum, MP, Edwin...that was a most disappointing year. There were games we looked like world beaters but, for some reason, couldn't sustain it. To his credit, he seems to have WU going in the right direction. Good luck to him, because he's the reason we have UB. So all's well that ends well. See I went easy on him, Broy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Did not Baniak graduate the year before - he was the same year as Heinrich - correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Unless, I am mistaken cheeseman, Mo, Baniak, and Heinrich all graduated together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 2000: Justin Love John Redden Ryan Robertson Larry Simmons 2001: Maurice Jeffers Matt Baniak Chris Heinrich Justin Tatum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I don't know who your post is directed to. I'm hardly a kool-aid drinker when it comes to MU's basketball program. In fact, I tend to agree with that author. I notice you like to change the subject when someone points out your statements aren't necessarily based on facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Why this guy doesn't get credit for his game coaching is beyond. I'm sorry, but he never got much talent at SLU. But let's not forget that he led SLU to a 9-7 CUSA record his last year. They included some good wins over Louisville, Cincy and others. You would think people would have wised up after seeing what he did with Washington. He took a team that was in much worse shape than SLU and led them to a NCAA tourney bid. Kudos to Zo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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