havelj Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Saw this posted somewhere this weekend: "ESPN's SportsCenter was required viewing for the sports fan, but now it's a sad mix of debate, viral videos & silly segments." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Saw this posted somewhere this weekend:"ESPN's SportsCenter was required viewing for the sports fan, but now it's a sad mix of debate, viral videos & silly segments." +1,000,000 When Mike & Mike devote an entire show to Coach K's piss poor argument about rushing the court, there's something seriously wrong with America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Bizzle couldn't be more right. ESPN is getting worse and worse. During the Dayton-Xavier broadcast a couple weeks ago, they kept bringing up the BPI for each team and how both were "solid bubble teams" because of their relatively high BPIs. Dayton was 3-7 in conference at the time and playing terrible basketball. Xavier was 6-4 in conference and 14-10 overall. Neither was showing up in anyone's bracket predictions and were lower in all other ratings. Watching them grasp for any reason to argue these were Tournament-worthy teams was just embarrassing, and it was pissing off the Xavier fans I was watching the game with. It's just another step in the network's long tradition of fabricating something and then discussing it ad nauseum as if everyone else should care for some reason. Cross-sport rankings ("Who's Now?" for example), power rankings, top whatever lists, cross promotions with their larger corporate overlords, Tim Tebow, etc. They're at the level of self parody at this point. I just wish there were an alternative for people who want to watch sports without all the BS but they've got almost every meaningful contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Makes me wonder if the Fox Sports networks will play the same game or actually try to differentiate themselves be being everything ESPN is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I was thinking about the Gonzaga and the rankings the other day. I got to wondering what SLU would be ranked if they had Gonzagas record with Gonzagas schedule. They would probably be top 10 but I guarntee you they would not be #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I tweeted about how terrible the BPI is and had several ESPN employees tweet me back asking me why I didn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I tweeted about how terrible the BPI is and had several ESPN employees tweet me back asking me why I didn't like it. If they come up with one legit reason, buy yourself a drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Makes me wonder if the Fox Sports networks will play the same game or actually try to differentiate themselves be being everything ESPN is not. You also have CBS Sports and NBC Sports now. As they start becoming available on more and more providers, they could also start chipping away at ESPN. I honestly think that ESPN made a huge mistake by throwing so much focus on Tim Tebow and pushing the debate format of First Take onto more and more of their programming. While it might have initially gave them a boost in ratings, it also worked at driving away many actual sports fans, who grew tired of the same antics day in, day out. Another point is that ESPN is rarely on the forefront of any real, investigative sports journalism. It seems like breaking news is coming from other sources, like Yahoo and Deadspin, and that ESPN is following the story rather than being in the lead. When you become too focused on just talking and arguing about sh!t, everything else is going to suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You also have CBS Sports and NBC Sports now. As they start becoming available on more and more providers, they could also start chipping away at ESPN. I honestly think that ESPN made a huge mistake by throwing so much focus on Tim Tebow and pushing the debate format of First Take onto more and more of their programming. While it might have initially gave them a boost in ratings, it also worked at driving away many actual sports fans, who grew tired of the same antics day in, day out. Another point is that ESPN is rarely on the forefront of any real, investigative sports journalism. It seems like breaking news is coming from other sources, like Yahoo and Deadspin, and that ESPN is following the story rather than being in the lead. When you become too focused on just talking and arguing about sh!t, everything else is going to suffer. But...but...knowing where Tim Tebow went to lunch is more important, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Fan in St. Louis Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Call it East Coast Bias or Bias towards a team that went far in the big dance a few years ago with few if any remaining team members. It doesn't matter, and it is just a sportswriter who wants to pander to a national audience who have heard of the past VCU and Butler success. The reporter likely hasn't watched either team this year...other than clips on Sportscenter. If RM was still our coach, we'd also be getting an undeserved bump in the powerrankings due to brand recognition. True A10 fans saw the smackdown in St. Louis of VCU and know of the 11-game winning streak, and wouldn't agree with the article. Even the coaches of VCU and Butler have made comments acknowledging that St. Louis is the superior team at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Bizzle couldn't be more right. ESPN is getting worse and worse. During the Dayton-Xavier broadcast a couple weeks ago, they kept bringing up the BPI for each team and how both were "solid bubble teams" because of their relatively high BPIs. Dayton was 3-7 in conference at the time and playing terrible basketball. Xavier was 6-4 in conference and 14-10 overall. Neither was showing up in anyone's bracket predictions and were lower in all other ratings. Watching them grasp for any reason to argue these were Tournament-worthy teams was just embarrassing, and it was pissing off the Xavier fans I was watching the game with. It's just another step in the network's long tradition of fabricating something and then discussing it ad nauseum as if everyone else should care for some reason. Cross-sport rankings ("Who's Now?" for example), power rankings, top whatever lists, cross promotions with their larger corporate overlords, Tim Tebow, etc. They're at the level of self parody at this point. I just wish there were an alternative for people who want to watch sports without all the BS but they've got almost every meaningful contract. I have completely given up on ESPN's morning shows. Now I watch Dan Patrick show on NBCSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="West Pine Jim" data-cid="349065" data-time="1362427996"><p> I have completely given up on ESPN's morning shows. Now I watch Dan Patrick show on NBCSS.</p></blockquote> +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="West Pine Jim" data-cid="349065" data-time="1362427996"><p>I have completely given up on ESPN's morning shows. Now I watch Dan Patrick show on NBCSS.</p></blockquote> +1 ESPN is terrible except for their actual sports programming and OTL. Some of the 30 for 30's are awesome, but I watch those on Netflix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="RiseAndGrind" data-cid="349068" data-time="1362428225"><p> <br /> ESPN is terrible except for their actual sports programming and OTL. Some of the 30 for 30's are awesome, but I watch those on Netflix. </p></blockquote> I watched SEC storied about the 2008 sec tournament and that was good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You also have CBS Sports and NBC Sports now. As they start becoming available on more and more providers, they could also start chipping away at ESPN. I honestly think that ESPN made a huge mistake by throwing so much focus on Tim Tebow and pushing the debate format of First Take onto more and more of their programming. While it might have initially gave them a boost in ratings, it also worked at driving away many actual sports fans, who grew tired of the same antics day in, day out.Another point is that ESPN is rarely on the forefront of any real, investigative sports journalism. It seems like breaking news is coming from other sources, like Yahoo and Deadspin, and that ESPN is following the story rather than being in the lead. When you become too focused on just talking and arguing about sh!t, everything else is going to suffer. Bizzle's on fire in this thread. I find myself only watching games on ESPN anymore- no SportsCenter, no other programming. The rest of it feels like the worst cable news networks to me in terms of format and tone. If ESPN breaks anything anymore, it's always "Sources say..." and generally has at least a few major details that will change by the time the full story breaks. I get more sports news now from Twitter and Deadspin than from anywhere else. I also use Google News as a general news aggregator and see some new sports headlines there. The fact of the matter is that ESPN is so deep in its nine figure deals with every major league, it's too afraid to actually challenge any of them with negative headlines or investigative journalism. Everyone's getting rich, so why stir the pot? It's embarrassing and the word "journalism" hardly even applies there anymore. I would LOVE for the other networks to start chipping away by offering more live sports programming and actual sports journalism. There is better sports writing to be found at places like Slate, NPR, and the ESPN-sponsored Grantland than at the main ESPN page anymore. Even Deadspin, which in no way denies its sports tabloid format, has more interesting things to say than ESPN by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 ESPN is terrible except for their actual sports programming and OTL. Some of the 30 for 30's are awesome, but I watch those on Netflix. All their best stuff is relegated to second-tier or sponsored status: Grantland, the 30 for 30 series (both of which are due to Bill Simmons, who I otherwise find unreadable). The stuff getting the primetime play on ESPN is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I tweeted about how terrible the BPI is and had several ESPN employees tweet me back asking me why I didn't like it. What did you Tweet back at them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Pistol" data-cid="349071" data-time="1362428307"><p> <br /> Bizzle's on fire in this thread. I find myself only watching games on ESPN anymore- no SportsCenter, no other programming. The rest of it feels like the worst cable news networks to me in terms of format and tone.<br /> <br /> If ESPN breaks anything anymore, it's always "Sources say..." and generally has at least a few major details that will change by the time the full story breaks. I get more sports news now from Twitter and Deadspin than from anywhere else. I also use Google News as a general news aggregator and see some new sports headlines there.<br /> <br /> The fact of the matter is that ESPN is so deep in its nine figure deals with every major league, it's too afraid to actually challenge any of them with negative headlines or investigative journalism. Everyone's getting rich, so why stir the pot? It's embarrassing and the word "journalism" hardly even applies there anymore.<br /> <br /> I would LOVE for the other networks to start chipping away by offering more live sports programming and actual sports journalism. There is better sports writing to be found at places like Slate, NPR, and the ESPN-sponsored Grantland than at the main ESPN page anymore. Even Deadspin, which in no way denies its sports tabloid format, has more interesting things to say than ESPN by a long shot.</p></blockquote> I'd rather read Barstool than ESPN.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Bizzle's on fire in this thread. I find myself only watching games on ESPN anymore- no SportsCenter, no other programming. The rest of it feels like the worst cable news networks to me in terms of format and tone. If ESPN breaks anything anymore, it's always "Sources say..." and generally has at least a few major details that will change by the time the full story breaks. I get more sports news now from Twitter and Deadspin than from anywhere else. I also use Google News as a general news aggregator and see some new sports headlines there. The fact of the matter is that ESPN is so deep in its nine figure deals with every major league, it's too afraid to actually challenge any of them with negative headlines or investigative journalism. Everyone's getting rich, so why stir the pot? It's embarrassing and the word "journalism" hardly even applies there anymore. I would LOVE for the other networks to start chipping away by offering more live sports programming and actual sports journalism. There is better sports writing to be found at places like Slate, NPR, and the ESPN-sponsored Grantland than at the main ESPN page anymore. Even Deadspin, which in no way denies its sports tabloid format, has more interesting things to say than ESPN by a long shot. Bizzle is usually on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 All their best stuff is relegated to second-tier or sponsored status: Grantland, the 30 for 30 series (both of which are due to Bill Simmons, who I otherwise find unreadable). The stuff getting the primetime play on ESPN is horrible. Last night I saw the show ESPN aired on basketball players from Senegal. It tracked them from training in their country, to American prep schools and then off to college. It was fascinating. One of the players they featured was our buddy Aziz N'diaye. They also featured Assane who went to South Kent Prep in Connecticut before playing for UVa. In one of the game clips for South Kent, they were playing against a burly guard with dreadlocks who wore number 5. This guy flashed across the screen a couple times in the highlights. I'm pretty sure it was our very own Jordair Jett. The time frame would have made sense that Jordair's prep school team would have been competing against South Kent around this time. Anyway, half way through the season the head coach of South Kent just quits to take a job at Nike. What a scumbag. The season wasn't going like he hoped so he just quit in the middle of it. It was the first time I had viewed it and it turned out to be one of the best shows I had seen on ESPN. It is amazing what those kids went through to get to America. The guy from Senegal who runs that basketball program in his country was really inspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 i never miss sportscenter. i just can't get enough of what albert haynesworth, tim tebow and lebron james' stools consist of. even though the first two are complete losers and everybody knows that lebron james doesn't take shits, he just takes three or four steps and walks right past the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I hope to do a post later this week about ratings in general but the BPI is unique in that it tries to mix a bunch of elements (it is not just efficiency). The BPI seemed to be created in order to score argument points (we "deemphasize" games with key injuries, close home wins are not treated as losses as some power ratings do, etc.). But the proof is in the pudding and the BPI is not that special at predicting (not terrible but not as good as Pomeroy or Sagarin). In games involving top 25 teams in the last month the BPI has been slightly worse than average in predicting games (although Pomeroy has been terrible at top 25 games while spectacular for the rest). In all games, the BPI is above average but below Pomeroy and Sagarin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 interesting thread. what is the alternative to sportscenter? besides actual games, really the only espn i watch is sportcenter, but i dont know where else to get the highlights nationally. educate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB2.0 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 People who read Deadspin typically have the mental capacity of a mosquito...or your typical mizzu student. Hate ESPN or not, most on this board cream their pants during every SLU highlight on SportsCenter. Not that there's anything wrong with that... The BPI pumping, on the other hand, is obnoxious. They are contractually obligated to mention it during each college basketball broadcast. I agree with the poster who referenced QBR. It's a made up stat that no one actually gives a crap about, despite what ESPN blitzes us with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 So we are #16 AP and 15 USA Today... now they are "OK". Wait, KenPom has us at 22. VCU, 17th. Close to Bilas. Whoa... Last yr, a few know it alls lectured how KenPom was the way to go, predictive model, blah blah when KenPom had us 13th and we were out of the AP and USA, approximately 30th - 35th, give or take. SO, which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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