Barnett Article

[LouisvilleBilliken]

I think Barnett could be a sharpshooter like some are suggesting, if Ellis starts (like I think), then we really need a 3-point shooter off the bench. Barnett could fill that role, I know Majerus is riding very high on Carter, but it takes people time to learn his defense and system. Barnett has a very good shooting stroke, the defensive will be much better this year. If Barnett can prove himself early in the season, then he will be a great guy off the bench, if not, I think he will give Carter a chance.

[HusakAttack]

I think Barnett could be a sharpshooter like some are suggesting, if Ellis starts (like I think), then we really need a 3-point shooter off the bench. Barnett could fill that role, I know Majerus is riding very high on Carter, but it takes people time to learn his defense and system. Barnett has a very good shooting stroke, the defensive will be much better this year. If Barnett can prove himself early in the season, then he will be a great guy off the bench, if not, I think he will give Carter a chance.

I think I could be a great 3 pt shooter too, but I'm not. I do not believe Jake proved that he will be a consistent 3 pt shooter based on his pt last year. Maybe he'll turn it on and become one, maybe he won't. Maybe I'll grow an arm out of my ass, maybe I won't.

[billiken_roy]

I think I could be a great 3 pt shooter too, but I'm not. I do not believe Jake proved that he will be a consistent 3 pt shooter based on his pt last year. Maybe he'll turn it on and become one, maybe he won't. Maybe I'll grow an arm out of my ass, maybe I won't.

husakattack is right. barnett was a horrible three point shooter last year. the stats show no one who shot a three pointer for the billikens last year was worse. if you watched his shot, his release was tremendously inconsistent, he rarely had the same spin or arch on the ball. maybe the guy was a good shooter three years ago in toledo, but he sure hasnt shown that yet in saint louis. right now i would rather have taj's favorite three point shooter, jordair jett, shooting threes before barnett. hopefully he fixed it with hard work. i genuinely like the kid. his positive attitude from the bench is great and obviously is a good teamate. sure like to see him have some success.

[LouisvilleBilliken]

He really has not had an opportunity, its tough just trying to play 3-4 minutes every 5 games and then be an automatic 3-point shot maker. It sounds like the China trip was beneficial for him and his confidence. The game situations that he was in is when it was a 20-25 point blowout and that's is not the best determination of a player's ability. Let's give him a chance, but I think he will be fighting Carter for playing time if he does not perform well early on.

[HusakAttack]

He really has not had an opportunity, its tough just trying to play 3-4 minutes every 5 games and then be an automatic 3-point shot maker. It sounds like the China trip was beneficial for him and his confidence. The game situations that he was in is when it was a 20-25 point blowout and that's is not the best determination of a player's ability. Let's give him a chance, but I think he will be fighting Carter for playing time if he does not perform well early on.

I don't think Roy or myself were saying to not give jake a chance. I am a big fan of his but what I know I was saying was that there is nothing from his play in a Billiken uniform that makes me believe he will be a consistent 3 pt shooter

[thetorch]

There are minutes open for a swingman. Barnett will be in competition with Drew for some time, it may not be alot but I expect one of them to get in games more often than not. Who shows the best stroke from 3 point and plays the best perimeter defense will win those minutes. Right now I'd give the edge to Drew, I think he may be ready almost immediately on the defensive end. Barnett has some work to do there.

[David King]

Here's what I found most interesting in the story:

given China’s population and economic growth (though that growth is beginning to slow now) – how long will it be before that enthusiasm turns into talent? How many millions of China’s 1.3 billion population are already playing the sport? How long before Chinese players, like players from Europe and Africa and South America, become part of the average college coach’s scouting diet? How long before the NBA expands to Beijing?

I agree. RM needs to get on a plane to Beijing and just go see the kids play.

[slu72]

Here's what I found most interesting in the story:

given China’s population and economic growth (though that growth is beginning to slow now) – how long will it be before that enthusiasm turns into talent? How many millions of China’s 1.3 billion population are already playing the sport? How long before Chinese players, like players from Europe and Africa and South America, become part of the average college coach’s scouting diet? How long before the NBA expands to Beijing?

I agree. RM needs to get on a plane to Beijing and just go see the kids play.

But he won't be able to take Angie, so a more economical move would be to hire Yao Ming as DBO-Shanghai Branch

[Taj79]

Thanks roy -- get them all focused on me and my Jett issues. For the record, Jett did make some treys. And shot better than Jake. Still, on this team, JJ as option one falls behind Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Loe, Evans and maybe even Barnett in the preferred list from three-point land. Maybe it gets better with a "Conklin summer."

First of all, Cobbin. Nice player on some talent-weak teams. Just because he rode Hughes lead and played in two NCAA games doesn't mean much -- it means right place, right time. Cobbin was a double digit scorer his senior year ONLY. The rest of his three years were in the 8.0 to 9.2 range. He played four years and is a 1,000 point club member. He was twice as productive as Drew Deiner --- a fact I attribute to Cobbin's ability to get off his shot more quickly. But he was a stationary, spot-up shooter. Would I like that from Barnett? Absolutely. Deiner actually shot better from 3 than Cobbin -- 40% to 38.4% but Virgil launched 250 more threes than Drew did. In the 2007 Media Guide, Cobbin was 8th all-time at SLU in three-point percentage for a career. A "Cobbin-like" presence off the bench would be gravy in my book and frankly what I think w need from Barnett..

Barnett's playing time? Who knows. If you go by the stat sheet alone, Cassity averaged 17.9 minutes per game last year. I suspect it was quite higher an average early because he did not see the floor near the end much. While his contributions are much debated, they were mostly intangible and not seen in the scorebook. Christ, he averaged a little over 3 ppg; that's ONE three-pointer a game. Yet, by the torunament, he was down to maybe 2 minutes per game or half. He was surpassed on the floor by others doing more. If you go with those three coming back, and add in "the best recruit ever" in Carter, then Jake will have very little to pick from. Maybe he's better early on if Carter takes a while to get going. It's a nice dilemma to have right now.

My biggest gripe? Less we forget, Jake came over from Toldeo and some folks had him all-conference and the three-point king before we ever saw him play. Now he won't see the game day lights? That's a wasted schollie if you ask me. Why did we do that? I can understand Carter and Drew sitting and learning. They will be freshmen. But Jake is a fourth-year junior. Seems a lot less to settle for, or is it just me?

Now we have McBoom coming over from another similar school, with similar credentials and a similar situation. Forgive me if I am less than thrilled with picking up some of these retreads. I hope this one is different. I hope Jake gets "religion" this season. I've got to believe that playing anywhere, especially with an organized team as was in China, helps this kid rocket off to a great start. Situationally, who couldn't use a 6'5" guard who can knock down a three, do all the intangibles, and play "D" on the likes of Wyatt, Kromah, Riley and some of the other 6'4"+ backcouters in this league?

Let's just say I'll again believe it when I see it.

[jimbofive]

...My biggest gripe? Less we forget...

My biggest gripe? Lest we forget...

You savage... you're better than that.

[slufanskip]

Here's what I found most interesting in the story:

given China’s population and economic growth (though that growth is beginning to slow now) – how long will it be before that enthusiasm turns into talent? How many millions of China’s 1.3 billion population are already playing the sport? How long before Chinese players, like players from Europe and Africa and South America, become part of the average college coach’s scouting diet? How long before the NBA expands to Beijing?

I agree. RM needs to get on a plane to Beijing and just go see the kids play.

He's too lazy. He'll probably send Porter while he hangs out in the Lou and recruits local kids who don't have a chance to play for SLU

[Cowboy]

-i think Jake admitted or maybe Rick said it in an interview where Jake did not do all that was expected of him to be ready to play last season, i hope he got the message and has corrected that for this season and we get to see what sort of player he is, if he didn't he can use the tweezers

-in any case, it seems we are in much better shape than most if not all prior SLU teams where we have a full compliment of scholarship players that all seem to have the ability to fight for minutes, if scholarship players 9 or 10 through 13 aren't good enough to play and the team wins the A10 and goes to the tourney, that rocks in my world, all of this will be determined by playing 38 or so games, i hope

-pure speculation, but do Jake and McBroom get lots of time in most prior SLU seasons?

[billiken_roy]

-i hope -pure speculation, but do Jake and McBroom get lots of time in most prior SLU seasons?

no

[jbizzle09]

-i think Jake admitted or maybe Rick said it in an interview where Jake did not do all that was expected of him to be ready to play last season, i hope he got the message and has corrected that for this season and we get to see what sort of player he is, if he didn't he can use the tweezers

-in any case, it seems we are in much better shape than most if not all prior SLU teams where we have a full compliment of scholarship players that all seem to have the ability to fight for minutes, if scholarship players 9 or 10 through 13 aren't good enough to play and the team wins the A10 and goes to the tourney, that rocks in my world, all of this will be determined by playing 38 or so games, i hope

-pure speculation, but do Jake and McBroom get lots of time in most prior SLU seasons?

In my opinion, absolutely yes. In most of our past seasons, Barnett would have been either a starter or at least solidly in the rotation. Can't really speak to McBroom yet, but my guess is he would have been given plenty of playing time right away by previous regimes. We had plenty of previous teams that were awfully thin talent-wise.

[billiken_roy]

In my opinion, absolutely yes. In most of our past seasons, Barnett would have been either a starter or at least solidly in the rotation. Can't really speak to McBroom yet, but my guess is he would have been given plenty of playing time right away by previous regimes. We had plenty of previous teams that were awfully thin talent-wise.

bizzle i am normally a big fan of your observations of the billikens, but honestly i do not know what you saw from barnett to come to that conclusion. imo, he appeared to be worse than salecich let alone think he could take a spot from the likes of lisch or liddell. as to mcbroom, after all the years of buildup leading to let down and including players in the rickma era as well not just the likes of caswell cranford etc. excuse me until i see for myself that mcbroom is truly john stockton before i have him starting. i hope you are right, but more times than not, unless we have seen it for ourselves, there is a pretty good chance we have somewhat been oversold on recruits ability to immediately step in and contribute at a high level.

[moytoy12]

i hope you are right, but more times than not, unless we have seen it for ourselves...

Do i even need to say it?

[SLU_Nick]

Agree with Roy in regards to JB. He was scared with the ball last year. Every time he caught the ball I found myself yelling at my computer, "just swing it back around", "give it back to JJ MM KM", etc. On top of that he could not shoot at all. I might need to go watch game film from his Toledo days before see how he plays on the best bills team in 10+ years.

I am the biggest McBroom fanboy on this board before I have seen him play a minute for us. But If I am a betting man I would bet he is not starting until he is a junior (2014-2015) at the earliest. MM and JJ start for the next 2 years...probably KC in 2013-2014. That said, McBroom would definitely start on Soderberg teams, IMO.

[jbizzle09]

bizzle i am normally a big fan of your observations of the billikens, but honestly i do not know what you saw from barnett to come to that conclusion. imo, he appeared to be worse than salecich let alone think he could take a spot from the likes of lisch or liddell. as to mcbroom, after all the years of buildup leading to let down and including players in the rickma era as well not just the likes of caswell cranford etc. excuse me until i see for myself that mcbroom is truly john stockton before i have him starting. i hope you are right, but more times than not, unless we have seen it for ourselves, there is a pretty good chance we have somewhat been oversold on recruits ability to immediately step in and contribute at a high level.

I am not comparing him to Lisch and Liddell at all, or thinking he could have started or played ahead of either. However, here are some guards who got plenty of playing time in the past few years:

-Justin Jordan

-Christian Salecich

-Dwayne Polk

-Paul Eckerle

-Anthony Drejaj

-Drew Diener

And that isn't even counting Dustin Maguire, who was deemed so bad that Soderberg decided it was best to go to a 6 or 7 man rotation every night rather than play him.

I will go on the record and say that I believe that Barnett is a better player than any of those players I listed, and would have received playing time over any of them. I'm just not so sure we can slam the book on Barnett just yet. He still has 2 years of eligibility. And, while the MAC is definitely an inferior league to the A-10, it isn't like the free throw line and three point arc are different distances from the rest of college ball. Both Barnett and McBroom have shown that they can hit treys and free throws at the D-1 level. Personally, I am taking the optimisitc approach with both.

[jbizzle09]

Do i even need to say it?

G-O-S-E-E-T-H-E-K-I-D-S-P-L-A-Y

[moytoy12]

And that isn't even counting Dustin Maguire, who was deemed so bad that Soderberg decided it was best to go to a 6 or 7 man rotation every night rather than play him.

And play a walk on ahead of him.

[billiken_roy]

I am not comparing him to Lisch and Liddell at all, or thinking he could have started or played ahead of either. However, here are some guards who got plenty of playing time in the past few years: -Justin Jordan -Christian Salecich -Dwayne Polk -Paul Eckerle -Anthony Drejaj -Drew Diener And that isn't even counting Dustin Maguire, who was deemed so bad that Soderberg decided it was best to go to a 6 or 7 man rotation every night rather than play him. I will go on the record and say that I believe that Barnett is a better player than any of those players I listed, and would have received playing time over any of them. I'm just not so sure we can slam the book on Barnett just yet. He still has 2 years of eligibility. And, while the MAC is definitely an inferior league to the A-10, it isn't like the free throw line and three point arc are different distances from the rest of college ball. Both Barnett and McBroom have shown that they can hit treys and free throws at the D-1 level. Personally, I am taking the optimisitc approach with both.

the barnett i saw last year was not better than the 6 on your list in my opinion. i am holding out hope he makes a comeback and we saw a lot of rust, but honestly, there is no way his shot should have been that bad last year.

[jp18]

Barnett played 90 minutes all of last year and took 14 three pointers - not sure how anyone can draw deep conclusions on him and his shot from that. He needs to play for me to get a better opinion. I can't believe some of the statements being thrown around about him for how little he was on the court - most of his time was in garbage time after the first few games of the season. You would have to think he was pressing when playing as he was trying to impress the coaching staff for more minutes. I need to see him more.

[Taj79]

The "book"on Barnett and McBroom has yet to be opened in my head. I haven't read a line,let alone enough to close either. All I'm saying is let it play out. Let's see where Jake is come this December. But some did say what I said about him being all A-10 and raining threes from the parking lot.

I think roy's statement is valid. I also think that Barnett might have been pressed into play sooner as I agree with bizz that the talent pool was not that deep. I just don't know about the MAC ---- didn't one of our middling players go there and play well? For Kent State I believe. Same with Jon Smiff at Ohio. Seems a downgrade in terms of talent needed to play. I personally think we've had a lot of guards who played and maybe should not have ---- without more seasoning. Drejaj, Deiner, Polk, Johnson, John Redden, Ramon Trice, LaTodd Johnson, Paul Eckerle, Kyle Cassity and John Duff come to mind. The other galling fact on Maguire was he was the only fall signee Soderberg had that year.

It's apples to oranges, circumstances and the roster played a huge role. You can't throw them all on the wall together. Ross Varner, Va'shun Newborne, Justin Johnson and a whole boatload of front court guys could be said to be the same.

I am curious to see to what standard Carter is held to. Better than Andre Miller sets the bar high for me,

[HusakAttack]

bizzle i am normally a big fan of your observations of the billikens, but honestly i do not know what you saw from barnett to come to that conclusion. imo, he appeared to be worse than salecich let alone think he could take a spot from the likes of lisch or liddell. as to mcbroom, after all the years of buildup leading to let down and including players in the rickma era as well not just the likes of caswell cranford etc. excuse me until i see for myself that mcbroom is truly john stockton before i have him starting. i hope you are right, but more times than not, unless we have seen it for ourselves, there is a pretty good chance we have somewhat been oversold on recruits ability to immediately step in and contribute at a high level.

he would have been a superstar in the soderberg era...i think we are forgetting the overall quality of bills teams prior to last year...i think barnett would have had solid pt on most years' teams

[Cowboy]

The "book"on Barnett and McBroom has yet to be opened in my head. I haven't read a line,let alone enough to close either. All I'm saying is let it play out. Let's see where Jake is come this December. But some did say what I said about him being all A-10 and raining threes from the parking lot.

I think roy's statement is valid. I also think that Barnett might have been pressed into play sooner as I agree with bizz that the talent pool was not that deep. I just don't know about the MAC ---- didn't one of our middling players go there and play well? For Kent State I believe. Same with Jon Smiff at Ohio. Seems a downgrade in terms of talent needed to play. I personally think we've had a lot of guards who played and maybe should not have ---- without more seasoning. Drejaj, Deiner, Polk, Johnson, John Redden, Ramon Trice, LaTodd Johnson, Paul Eckerle, Kyle Cassity and John Duff come to mind. The other galling fact on Maguire was he was the only fall signee Soderberg had that year.

It's apples to oranges, circumstances and the roster played a huge role. You can't throw them all on the wall together. Ross Varner, Va'shun Newborne, Justin Johnson and a whole boatload of front court guys could be said to be the same.

I am curious to see to what standard Carter is held to. Better than Andre Miller sets the bar high for me,

-taj, i have not heard Rick say Keith Carter is better than andre miller nor have i heard Rick or anyone say Keith is the best recruit ever, i have heard Rick say Keith Carter is the second best guard he has signed behind andre miller

-the kid comes with expectations, certainly, and we will all get to see if they are met or even surpassed