DoctorB Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I heard about some juicy recruiting stuff from a local TV station and would report it on here, except it's part of my satellite package and so I'm worried about the ethics of undercutting Dishnet. Plus Tom Timmerman had some great gossip in the POST about SLU player visits; but you know how bad the newspaper business is these days; so please support him & buy the paper.... Also: I read in SI magazine some excellent news about our new coaches and I'm bursting to tell everyone on Billikens.com., but I really don't want SI to go out of business, so please just buy the latest issue. Also: the ending of Moby Dick is very exciting and I should tell you all, but I sure don't want to hurt the Melville estate (o wait -- is that public domain)? anyway, buy the book. the whole argument about sharing facts and so forth from any "paid" source is pretty naive--if not entirely lame -- and anyway we do it all the time. we are all buying news from cable, print, etc., and then talking about it with friends and family and so on. if you pay for the info you can do anything you want with it, and there is nothing unethical about that, folks. Finally: I went to some of the recent pick-up games at Simon, and I'm happy to tell anyone of you about the players I watched; just send me $5 or more and my eyewitness review is yours! but please swear the report to secrecy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Classic post DoctorB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I've got to hand it to you, DocB. This is a pretty awesome post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Where should I send the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I heard about some juicy recruiting stuff from a local TV station and would report it on here, except it's part of my satellite package and so I'm worried about the ethics of undercutting Dishnet. Plus Tom Timmerman had some great gossip in the POST about SLU player visits; but you know how bad the newspaper business is these days; so please support him & buy the paper.... Also: I read in SI magazine some excellent news about our new coaches and I'm bursting to tell everyone on Billikens.com., but I really don't want SI to go out of business, so please just buy the latest issue. Also: the ending of Moby Dick is very exciting and I should tell you all, but I sure don't want to hurt the Melville estate (o wait -- is that public domain)? anyway, buy the book. the whole argument about sharing facts and so forth from any "paid" source is pretty naive--if not entirely lame -- and anyway we do it all the time. we are all buying news from cable, print, etc., and then talking about it with friends and family and so on. if you pay for the info you can do anything you want with it, and there is nothing unethical about that, folks. Finally: I went to some of the recent pick-up games at Simon, and I'm happy to tell anyone of you about the players I watched; just send me $5 or more and my eyewitness review is yours! but please swear the report to secrecy.... LOL - could not agree with you more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I heard about some juicy recruiting stuff from a local TV station and would report it on here, except it's part of my satellite package and so I'm worried about the ethics of undercutting Dishnet. Plus Tom Timmerman had some great gossip in the POST about SLU player visits; but you know how bad the newspaper business is these days; so please support him & buy the paper.... Also: I read in SI magazine some excellent news about our new coaches and I'm bursting to tell everyone on Billikens.com., but I really don't want SI to go out of business, so please just buy the latest issue. Also: the ending of Moby Dick is very exciting and I should tell you all, but I sure don't want to hurt the Melville estate (o wait -- is that public domain)? anyway, buy the book. the whole argument about sharing facts and so forth from any "paid" source is pretty naive--if not entirely lame -- and anyway we do it all the time. we are all buying news from cable, print, etc., and then talking about it with friends and family and so on. if you pay for the info you can do anything you want with it, and there is nothing unethical about that, folks. Finally: I went to some of the recent pick-up games at Simon, and I'm happy to tell anyone of you about the players I watched; just send me $5 or more and my eyewitness review is yours! but please swear the report to secrecy.... This is the Bills board I want to wake up to every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKen Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I heard about some juicy recruiting stuff from a local TV station and would report it on here, except it's part of my satellite package and so I'm worried about the ethics of undercutting Dishnet. Plus Tom Timmerman had some great gossip in the POST about SLU player visits; but you know how bad the newspaper business is these days; so please support him & buy the paper.... Also: I read in SI magazine some excellent news about our new coaches and I'm bursting to tell everyone on Billikens.com., but I really don't want SI to go out of business, so please just buy the latest issue. Also: the ending of Moby Dick is very exciting and I should tell you all, but I sure don't want to hurt the Melville estate (o wait -- is that public domain)? anyway, buy the book. the whole argument about sharing facts and so forth from any "paid" source is pretty naive--if not entirely lame -- and anyway we do it all the time. we are all buying news from cable, print, etc., and then talking about it with friends and family and so on. if you pay for the info you can do anything you want with it, and there is nothing unethical about that, folks. Finally: I went to some of the recent pick-up games at Simon, and I'm happy to tell anyone of you about the players I watched; just send me $5 or more and my eyewitness review is yours! but please swear the report to secrecy.... awesome post! completely agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I would pay a monthly subscription to read doc b posts like that everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 The funny thing about Doc B's post is that all of those free sources of info he lists have no desire to expend resources to get the information that this very small group of individuals (people that frequent billikens.com) want because it doesn't appeal to the masses. The one person that is willing to expend the resources (i.e. his time) to get recruiting info, tape press conferences, coaching news, etc. would like to get paid something, anything, for his work. It should be pretty obvious that the business model to make this site work requires people to feel like they are getting information they can't get anywhere else. As Cheeseman pointed out in the other thread, there is nothing legally stopping somebody from signing up and then reposting everything over here. That being said, when people sign up for that site they are asked not to share the information elsewhere and agree to not do so as part of the agreement (legal or otherwise). Nevermind that sharing the information elsewhere obviously destroys the value of the other site and in all likelihood drives it out of business. Then nobody would have the information besides true program insiders, who rarely post here anymore. . If driving an honest person out of business isn't unethical, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 The funny thing about Doc B's post is that all of those free sources of info he lists have no desire to expend resources to get the information that this very small group of individuals (people that frequent billikens.com) want because it doesn't appeal to the masses. The one person that is willing to expend the resources (i.e. his time) to get recruiting info, tape press conferences, coaching news, etc. would like to get paid something, anything, for his work. It should be pretty obvious that the business model to make this site work requires people to feel like they are getting information they can't get anywhere else. As Cheeseman pointed out in the other thread, there is nothing legally stopping somebody from signing up and then reposting everything over here. That being said, when people sign up for that site they are asked not to share the information elsewhere and agree to not do so as part of the agreement (legal or otherwise). Nevermind that sharing the information elsewhere obviously destroys the value of the other site and in all likelihood drives it out of business. Then nobody would have the information besides true program insiders, who rarely post here anymore. . If driving an honest person out of business isn't unethical, I don't know what is. Good post, Kshoe. I guess the difference between most of the free major sports sites and Rivals is that the majors are supported by ad revenue plus they have programming they want you to watch. I've never had a problem w/ Rivals when Nate and now, BW, manage it for the Billikens. Never signed up for it and never bitched that those who did didn't share the inside dope. Hey, whoever's writing it is trying to earn a living. And if you paid for it, well, that's your right to feel like you're a free contributor to Billikens.com. Kind of like buying a car and loaning it out to someone who's too cheap to buy his own. All that said, Dr. B's piece was a nice piece of satire. And, Doc, give me your address I'll send you the five dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 The elephant in the room that all the subscribers aren't talking about is the fact that all this subscription income wouldn't be possible without farming the free members of billikens.com. at least the current guy isn't as obvious, but nate would tease at billikens.com to lure new subscribers. Then the gall to demand they don't share the secrets he sold. Seems to me steve is owed big time. However I am sure nate and the new guys donate to steve's cost fundraisers generously though in tribute to the fact they wouldn't even exist without billikens.com. good for steve, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 It is a faulty business model. This board has always been a place where we shared information, regardless of where individuals got it. This model entices some members to a database and forces them to agree to keep secrets from their prior community for the benefit of Scout. That model if held strictly builds resentment. Rather than an individual driving and "honest person out of business" it seems to me that it is the market in action...I say let the market play out, someone will leak the info eventually and I will be happy to pass it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 The funny thing about Doc B's post is that all of those free sources of info he lists have no desire to expend resources to get the information that this very small group of individuals (people that frequent billikens.com) want because it doesn't appeal to the masses. The one person that is willing to expend the resources (i.e. his time) to get recruiting info, tape press conferences, coaching news, etc. would like to get paid something, anything, for his work. It should be pretty obvious that the business model to make this site work requires people to feel like they are getting information they can't get anywhere else. As Cheeseman pointed out in the other thread, there is nothing legally stopping somebody from signing up and then reposting everything over here. That being said, when people sign up for that site they are asked not to share the information elsewhere and agree to not do so as part of the agreement (legal or otherwise). Nevermind that sharing the information elsewhere obviously destroys the value of the other site and in all likelihood drives it out of business. Then nobody would have the information besides true program insiders, who rarely post here anymore. . If driving an honest person out of business isn't unethical, I don't know what is. If you are an Uncle Mitty supporter then you know he would say - when one man loses another wins that is capitalism. By the way, I don't think Uncle Mitty is completely right but my point is people can not wrap themselves in the cloak of capitalism but then want it to only work for them and not against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 If you are an Uncle Mitty supporter then you know he would say - when one man loses another wins that is capitalism. By the way, I don't think Uncle Mitty is completely right but my point is people can not wrap themselves in the cloak of capitalism but then want it to only work for them and not against them. Exactly who wins if the other site goes out of business and nobody gets the information? By the way, I find the demands by some that information that a few are willing to pay for be distributed to all for free and if the people that pay don't distribute it they are petty to be a very socialistic concept... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 If you are an Uncle Mitty supporter then you know he would say - when one man loses another wins that is capitalism. By the way, I don't think Uncle Mitty is completely right but my point is people can not wrap themselves in the cloak of capitalism but then want it to only work for them and not against them. Message boards are people, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Message boards are people, too. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Exactly who wins if the other site goes out of business and nobody gets the information? By the way, I find the demands by some that information that a few are willing to pay for be distributed to all for free and if the people that pay don't distribute it they are petty to be a very socialistic concept... Who wins - the market place which includes all people not just subscribers. How can you have a viable business model that depends on the subscribers not sharing the info that they have subscribed to specifically when all it would take is one subscriber to blow it out of the water. That is not a business model that is a disaster and any means to protect that faulty model is simply silly. This is a chicken and the egg issue - depending on how you see it is how you will believe - I believe in the sharing of information as the bedrock of freedom and not a socialistic concept at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 This is really an interesting discussion-ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It is so interesting that it made me do a little simple math. I assume BW needs to pay Rivals something to use the name, but even without that expense and all the other expenses he must incur as with any other business, has anyone really thought about this actually being a "business"? It seems like $90. per year is the annual subscripion rate. I can't conceive that more than 100 people subscribe to the service (ok-go wild and figure 200). If he has 100 members then that grosses him $9000/year, before expenses. Double the members and you have $18K minus expenses. I figure this allows Ben to collect welfare and/or food stamps. This means that the 50% of Americans who pay 100% of the taxes in this country/state actually do support Ben and his site. The point is that this is not a business for Ben or Nate previously. It's a hobby and nothing more. I tend to agree with those on the "don't share the info" side of the coin, but let's not make this into something about allowing poor Ben to make a living-no one should expect to make a living from a hobby.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibubill Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Actually the issue (whether there exist property rights in the news) raises some rather interesting legal points. The readers on the board who are lawyers may remember reading a famous old case in first year Property where the issue made its way all the up to the U.S. Supreme Court, International News Service vs. Associated Press, 326 U.S. 1 (1918). Now I'm not arguing that the current issue is the same, but it has some similarities. The Court struggled with how to balance insuring that was an adequate incentive for people to gather and distribute news versus insuring that there was adequate competition in the marketplace. The Court actually recognized a "quasi-property" right in news giving some protection to those who invest the time and expense of gathering and distributing the news. Again, I'm not saying it applies to this scenario, but this definitely is an issue of interest for some as electronic distribution of the news makes greater inroads in the distribution process (making it easier and easier for those to reap where they have not sown). OK, this was my break from grading exams, back to that project. See, what is an interesting discussion is all relative. I often come to the board for a break from the monotony of my job, and this was an interesting break for me. (I know what many of you are thinking - if this is an "interesting" break for him I really feel sorry for him.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Everything is interesting on billikens.com, Malibubill. Except soccer not so much. And the MVC. Never mention MVC soccer. Now finish those exams and go have a beer with Jim Rockford. That would be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibubill Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Ha, showing your age with that reference. It was filmed in a little cove a bit north of what most people consider downtown Malibu. Most tourists don't know about it as there really isn't much of a marker indicating where to turn. There is a great little restaurant right on the sand there called Paradise Cove Beach Cafe. I strongly recommend it. If you get a beachfront booth and look to your right you should recognize the spot where the Rockford trailer used to sit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Ben asked us not to share the information and he's provided a great service to us so I don't think anyone is going to give the information away. Everyone will find out the coaching news soon enough. Let's get a different thread going. Talk about our expectations for players or something that we can just have an opinionated view on so that we don't have to have exclusive information to have a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Ha, showing your age with that reference. It was filmed in a little cove a bit north of what most people consider downtown Malibu. Most tourists don't know about it as there really isn't much of a marker indicating where to turn. There is a great little restaurant right on the sand there called Paradise Cove Beach Cafe. I strongly recommend it. If you get a beachfront booth and look to your right you should recognize the spot where the Rockford trailer used to sit.Right you are, MalibuBill. I think I would recognize the spot at Paradise Cove if I ever made it out there to visit. That was back when TV was TV, not just hokey "debate" shows or "reality" drivel. I'm a bit concerned with Jim Garner's current health but I've seen pictures in magazines so I don't think I'm leaking secret info, preserving the integrity of this offseason thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Actually the issue (whether there exist property rights in the news) raises some rather interesting legal points. The readers on the board who are lawyers may remember reading a famous old case in first year Property where the issue made its way all the up to the U.S. Supreme Court, International News Service vs. Associated Press, 326 U.S. 1 (1918). Now I'm not arguing that the current issue is the same, but it has some similarities. The Court struggled with how to balance insuring that was an adequate incentive for people to gather and distribute news versus insuring that there was adequate competition in the marketplace. The Court actually recognized a "quasi-property" right in news giving some protection to those who invest the time and expense of gathering and distributing the news. Again, I'm not saying it applies to this scenario, but this definitely is an issue of interest for some as electronic distribution of the news makes greater inroads in the distribution process (making it easier and easier for those to reap where they have not sown). OK, this was my break from grading exams, back to that project. See, what is an interesting discussion is all relative. I often come to the board for a break from the monotony of my job, and this was an interesting break for me. (I know what many of you are thinking - if this is an "interesting" break for him I really feel sorry for him.) and didnt billikens.com have some sort of "property rights" to his members that this website basically farmed their entire base of subscribers from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I really don't understand why some people seem totally worked up about this. The only person who's opinion matters on this isn't worked up about it. Everyone else should follow his example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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