SShoe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 SI's Luke Winn wrote a decent article on the impact of conference realignment. He used Pomeroy's efficiency rankings to assess the winners and losers and concluded the obvious - the ACC, A-10, and SEC to a smaller degree were the winners, while CUSA and Big East were the big losers. I'm sure some on this board will really appreciate the numbers oriented approach, while others will make absurd arguments as to why getting VCU and Butler really isn't all that exciting. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/luke_winn/05/22/conference.rankings/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showthebill Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Good article. However, it is disheartening to see that even with the A-10 gains he still has us statistically ranked 9th.... which means below pac-12, mo valley, and mountain west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep, this pretty much confirms that we should be in the MVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep, this pretty much confirms that we should be in the MVC. reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Good article. However, it is disheartening to see that even with the A-10 gains he still has us statistically ranked 9th.... which means below pac-12, mo valley, and mountain west. That table is based on 10 years of data and includes some pretty bad years of 2005, 06 and 07. If you look at just the last 5 years and eye-balling the chart above, it looks like our average would be 0.675, which is materially above the 10-yr average of the MVC and Mtn West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Good article. However, it is disheartening to see that even with the A-10 gains he still has us statistically ranked 9th.... which means below pac-12, mo valley, and mountain west.Those years from about 2004 to 2008 weren't too kind in the MVC vs. A-10 debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Those years from about 2004 to 2008 weren't too kind in the MVC vs. A-10 debate. If the MVC were ever going to gain and pass the A-10, they really needed to add Butler. I'm not sure what options the Valley has to strenghten their league. Adding VCU and Butler now widens the gap between the MVC and A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If you were MU and DePaul wouldn't you maybe want to re-examine the reasons you are in the Beast? Granted as long as UL, CT, and UC are there it's still a pretty strong conference, not nearly as strong as it was, yet still boasts some star power. But if Clemson and FSU were to bolt for the B12, and I can't see Clemson doing that unless the FB $'s are a lot bigger than the ACC package, you can bet the ACC would be knocking on UL and CT's door real quick, which they might do anyways. WHAM! the Beast gets slammed again. What's the attraction then? GU and Nova? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Most Clemson alums I play golf with and live by say they would go nuts if they went with the Big 12. Now if the SEC came knocking, that would be different. But USC would never allow that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Most Clemson alums I play golf with and live by say they would go nuts if they went with the Big 12. Now if the SEC came knocking, that would be different. But USC would never allow that. But at one point, both schools were ACC in-conference rivals (from '53 to 1970). USC's beef with the ACC was the Tobacco Road schools and not Clemson, that's why from 71-91, they played as a major independent...it wasn't like they were in a rush to join a new conference. Very interesting commentary, tarheel! It is worth noting that the Palmetto Bowl between Clemson and SC is on the docket until at least 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 All things considered, informed, intelligent, mature, experienced, inside individuals know that we should have gone to the MVC instead of the A-10 for the "long run". HOF SLU coach Rick Majerus, for example, has said so on numerous occasions, though he has been told to STFU. This Sports Illustrated guy ranks The MVC 7th, ahead of 9th place A-10. I am not saying that he is absolutely right, A-10 has been slightly better of late, that will even out again probably, bottom line, the conferences are close enough (.0066 rpi advantage to A-10 this yr; wow) that all of the other advantages make the MVC the better place to be. Too late, though. There are many, many significant reasons that we should have gone to the MVC (not just geography, roy), I will not go through that again for Christsakes. And I have never gone to one MVC Tourney game so don't say I am an MVC guy. No more from me on this thread; have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The Valley is boring. Snooze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 All things considered, informed, intelligent, mature, experienced, inside individuals know that we should have gone to the MVC instead of the A-10 for the "long run". HOF SLU coach Rick Majerus, for example, has said so on numerous occasions, though he has been told to STFU. This Sports Illustrated guy ranks The MVC 7th, ahead of 9th place A-10. I am not saying that he is absolutely right, A-10 has been slightly better of late, that will even out again probably, bottom line, the conferences are close enough (.0066 rpi advantage to A-10 this yr; wow) that all of the other advantages make the MVC the better place to be. Too late, though. There are many, many significant reasons that we should have gone to the MVC (not just geography, roy), I will not go through that again for Christsakes. And I have never gone to one MVC Tourney game so don't say I am an MVC guy. No more from me on this thread; have fun. geography is the only reason that has an ounce of credibility. and if you consider that access to many of the mvc facilities are difficult compared to most of the urban facilities of the A-10, geography fades quite a bit. as to rickma's pining, for anything but the A-10, you notice that started after he and biondi got into it. he used that as a chess piece in his efforts to try to get his charter flights back. prior to that, he never once brought up the MVC. Sports illustrated puts out one decent issue a year and sadly that issue doesnt even focus on sports. to hold that up as any sort of justification isnt very strong. my guess is that the sports illustrated writer is a frustrated big east fan that sees his conference crumbling and lashes out at the nearest conference that is quickly on the rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 geography is the only reason that has an ounce of credibility. and if you consider that access to many of the mvc facilities are difficult compared to most of the urban facilities of the A-10, geography fades quite a bit. as to rickma's pining, for anything but the A-10, you notice that started after he and biondi got into it. he used that as a chess piece in his efforts to try to get his charter flights back. prior to that, he never once brought up the MVC. Sports illustrated puts out one decent issue a year and sadly that issue doesnt even focus on sports. to hold that up as any sort of justification isnt very strong. my guess is that the sports illustrated writer is a frustrated big east fan that sees his conference crumbling and lashes out at the nearest conference that is quickly on the rise. Solid post. Even though the school was in the Big East for a shade over a dozen years, losing Miami killed the BEast in football and the dominoes started falling around the gridiron. Those same dominoes are now headed towards the hardwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 -there is something in this article i either don't like or maybe because i don't like it i don't want to figure it out and that is the mvc being ahead of the A10 in all of those years -not take this off topic, but if you were measuring the strength of a conf is kenpom's efficiency ranking the only place you would turn? i throw tourney results in this mix someplace along with any head to head -wouldn't the bcs conferences benefit from largely playing non conf games at home or neutral sites? that is they are not getting impacted by playing on the road where the matchup may not favor the road bcs team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Butler and VCU chose the A-10 as their best options. As for VCU you can see why they're on the east coast and travel's not such a burden to them plus the natural rivalry of Richmond and GW. But Butler had two options the MVC, who I'm sure would have welcomed them w/ open arms, and the A-10. They chose the latter. I think in large part because they saw more similarities between themselves the A-10 schools than the mostly secondary state schools that make up the MVC. The MVC had a nice run in the mid 2000's, but since then it's largely been WSU and Creighton. Whereas, the A-10's been X, Temple, Richmond, SLU, St. B's, St. J's, and a host of other schools that are on the brink of making it. Is the A-10 ideal for SLU? Right now it is although it would be great if the A-10 could convince Creighton to make the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Butler and VCU chose the A-10 as their best options. As for VCU you can see why they're on the east coast and travel's not such a burden to them plus the natural rivalry of Richmond and GW. But Butler had two options the MVC, who I'm sure would have welcomed them w/ open arms, and the A-10. They chose the latter. I think in large part because they saw more similarities between themselves the A-10 schools than the mostly secondary state schools that make up the MVC. The MVC had a nice run in the mid 2000's, but since then it's largely been WSU and Creighton. Whereas, the A-10's been X, Temple, Richmond, SLU, St. B's, St. J's, and a host of other schools that are on the brink of making it. Is the A-10 ideal for SLU? Right now it is although it would be great if the A-10 could convince Creighton to make the move. BINGO! Same for SLU. Amazing that some people think that SLU only exists to be competitive in basketball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I thought we existed to further the art world. If SLU did't exist a few statue makers would be looking for a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We exist to help keep the Best Steakhouse on Grand open. Just ask Ann-Margret, another satisfied diner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 -there is something in this article i either don't like or maybe because i don't like it i don't want to figure it out and that is the mvc being ahead of the A10 in all of those years -not take this off topic, but if you were measuring the strength of a conf is kenpom's efficiency ranking the only place you would turn? i throw tourney results in this mix someplace along with any head to head -wouldn't the bcs conferences benefit from largely playing non conf games at home or neutral sites? that is they are not getting impacted by playing on the road where the matchup may not favor the road bcs team The A-10 is rated ahead of MVC over the past 4 years with this formula. The 10 year average favors the MVC only because the A-10 had some rough years in the mid 2000s and the MVC had some really good years (40% of the teams dancing one year, 30% the next, etc.). Its also important to remember that when you look at a conference from top to bottom you have to include the Fordhams of the world too. While Evansville isn't very good, Fordham has been awful and they undoubtedly drag the conference down in calculations like this. While contraction isn't really an option despite the wishes of internet posters everywhere it would be fascinating to see how much better the A-10's numbers would be if Fordham was kicked out of the calculations. KenPom's formula adjusts for schedule strength, home games, etc. Given enough games its a pretty fair estimator of conferences overall strength. Like anythng, you could probably find a couple ways to tweak it, but in the grand scheme of things its not a bad tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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