Bracketology/Seed update

[cheeseman]

OK - this makes lots of sense - lets snub teams with a RPI of 30 or less just because they came in second in their conf which is rated top half or higher for those who lost their conf tourney but won their low mid major regular conf but could not close the deal in their tourney and who have a RPI about double of others.

[AnkielBreakers]

although an 8 or 9 seed looks bad, anywhere we are placed we will have to beat a tough team to make a run. At least you make a big splash when you are an 8/9 beating a 1 seed in the second round. (see northern iowa a few years ago)

[showthebill]

At least in that scenario, the weaker conference teams that get overlooked will have a .500+ record...

Seton Hall, South Florida, and unfortunately Northwestern should not even be considered unless they get to their Tournament Championships...8-10 in Conference = NIT...

Although I don't necessarily believe Northwestern with an 18-12 (8-10) record should be in the tournament it is definitely not ridiculous to think they deserve consideration.

You can complain all you want about a below 500 team getting in.... but this is a team who had 8 of those conference losses against top 50 rpi teams and the the other 4 coming against teams with RPI's of 9, 24, 79, and 88. Ya, they have a lot of losses, but there's a lot of mid major teams who don't play more than 1 or 2 top 50 rpi teams and have really bad losses that you're trying to argue should get a bid. One could say the mid major can play only the teams on their schedule, but NU also didn't lose to any crappy teams who the mid majors on the bubble do have losses to. So your argument may be well we don't know how that mid major would play against a top 50 team, but then I ask you this... why did they lose to a team with a below 100 RPI whereas NU didn't?

[MoStBearBtmFn]

Although I don't necessarily believe Northwestern with an 18-12 (8-10) record should be in the tournament it is definitely not ridiculous to think they deserve consideration.

You can complain all you want about a below 500 team getting in.... but this is a team who had 8 of those conference losses against top 50 rpi teams and the the other 4 coming against teams with RPI's of 9, 24, 79, and 88. Ya, they have a lot of losses, but there's a lot of mid major teams who don't play more than 1 or 2 top 50 rpi teams and have really bad losses that you're trying to argue should get a bid. One could say the mid major can play only the teams on their schedule, but NU also didn't lose to any crappy teams who the mid majors on the bubble do have losses to. So your argument may be well we don't know how that mid major would play against a top 50 team, but then I ask you this... why did they lose to a team with a below 100 RPI whereas NU didn't?

Agree. It is what it is. The players on the BCS teams try just as hard and want to make the tournament just as much as the mid major and lower major players. A system is in place for every team to make the tourney every year. Not the case in football.

[Pirahna]

I think every team and every player should get a trophy as a consolation prize for trying their best it works in 8 year old rec league... Wait no I don't, 68 teams is plenty. Although I think the process of selecting teams needs to be more transparent which is why I'm elated that after the Selection Sunday there is a special on TruTv about how the selection process actually works.

[Bizziken]

Although I don't necessarily believe Northwestern with an 18-12 (8-10) record should be in the tournament it is definitely not ridiculous to think they deserve consideration.

You can complain all you want about a below 500 team getting in.... but this is a team who had 8 of those conference losses against top 50 rpi teams and the the other 4 coming against teams with RPI's of 9, 24, 79, and 88. Ya, they have a lot of losses, but there's a lot of mid major teams who don't play more than 1 or 2 top 50 rpi teams and have really bad losses that you're trying to argue should get a bid. One could say the mid major can play only the teams on their schedule, but NU also didn't lose to any crappy teams who the mid majors on the bubble do have losses to. So your argument may be well we don't know how that mid major would play against a top 50 team, but then I ask you this... why did they lose to a team with a below 100 RPI whereas NU didn't?

I don't think .500 in conference, even a tough BCS one, is too much to require of a worthy Tournament team...Regarding Northwestern, I'm rooting for them...I would like to see them in their first ever Tournament. But, in my opinion, they don't deserve it...sorry...their best win in Conference was Michigan State, which admittedly, is a HUGE win. But other than that, they defeated the dregs of the Big 10. A singular (ONE) win @ Minnesota, or at home vs Illinois or Purdue would have been the difference between 9-9 and 8-10...beating Penn State and Iowa each twice and Nebraska once doesn't impress me at all. That's over half of their Conference wins.

True, Northwestern doesn't have any bad losses, but they don't have very many good wins either (Other than MSU, their best win is freaking Seton Hall)...I'd rather give a Mid Major like Drexel or even Iona a shot over NU, who hit 1 Home Run and struck out 30 times...

[dlarry]

I think this team is really a top 16 quality team and it would be ashame if we got stuck with Kentucky, Cuse, or Carolina in the second round.

That would piss me off too.

KY is just to dang talented and athletic up and down the lineup

UNC Henson and Zeller both 7 Feet and would give BC, CR, and RL fits, and Barnes...could luck with that match-up. DE I guess?

Syracuse would actually be the team I would be the least worried about. But then again I have seen what zone defenses have done to SLU and not many teams can run it like syracuse

As for the BCS vs mid majors debate.

Im not going to get into that but I do wonder what the NCAA is thinking. WHat makes the tourney great and why it makes tons of money is because of the chance for upsets and cinderalls.

Id much rather watch a 25-5 "mid major" get the invite than a 500 Iowa state or USF school.

WHen those weak BCS schools get in they are always one or two and done. When a strong non-football school gets in there is a much greater chance of seeing them make a run.

We have seen a lot of "mid majors" make sweet 16 and better type runs but I dont ever recall seeing a 500 BCS school make a long run.

[showthebill]

I don't think .500 in conference, even a tough BCS one, is too much to require of a worthy Tournament team...Regarding Northwestern, I'm rooting for them...I would like to see them in their first ever Tournament. But, in my opinion, they don't deserve it...sorry...their best win in Conference was Michigan State, which admittedly, is a HUGE win. But other than that, they defeated the dregs of the Big 10. A singular (ONE) win @ Minnesota, or at home vs Illinois or Purdue would have been the difference between 9-9 and 8-10...beating Penn State and Iowa each twice and Nebraska once doesn't impress me at all. That's over half of their Conference wins.

True, Northwestern doesn't have any bad losses, but they don't have very many good wins either (Other than MSU, their best win is freaking Seton Hall)...I'd rather give a Mid Major like Drexel or even Iona a shot over NU, who hit 1 Home Run and struck out 30 times...

So you like a team whose one home run was over VCU (rpi 46) and next closest win was against a team with an rpi of 83? They also had among others 3 losses to teams with rpi's of 129, 144, 156? I think NU would take care of business against those teams...

So to come back to my whole argument, if these mid-majors want bids over the big boys then they can't have losses to teams with really bad rpi's. NU's worst loss isn't even close to Drexel's 3 bad losses so Drexel really is shooting themselves in the foot. Mid majors can get in, they just have to prove they can win.

[MoStBearBtmFn]

That would piss me off too.

KY is just to dang talented and athletic up and down the lineup

UNC Henson and Zeller both 7 Feet and would give BC, CR, and RL fits, and Barnes...could luck with that match-up. DE I guess?

Syracuse would actually be the team I would be the least worried about. But then again I have seen what zone defenses have done to SLU and not many teams can run it like syracuse

As for the BCS vs mid majors debate.

Im not going to get into that but I do wonder what the NCAA is thinking. WHat makes the tourney great and why it makes tons of money is because of the chance for upsets and cinderalls.

Id much rather watch a 25-5 "mid major" get the invite than a 500 Iowa state or USF school.

WHen those weak BCS schools get in they are always one or two and done. When a strong non-football school gets in there is a much greater chance of seeing them make a run.

We have seen a lot of "mid majors" make sweet 16 and better type runs but I dont ever recall seeing a 500 BCS school make a long run.

UConn was 9-9 in conference last year and won the NC. Were they unworthy of making the tourney?

[The Wiz]

Forget the talk about losing to La S to get a 10 or 11 seed. What happens if you lose to La S and they give you a 9 seed?...and for added punishment move you out to Portland to make sure your fans can't attend. Just win the A-10, get a 6 seed and play in Omaha or Louisville.

[dlarry]

UConn was 9-9 in conference last year and won the NC. Were they unworthy of making the tourney?

They won the Big East Tourney so Yeah.

[Cowboy]

I think this team is really a top 16 quality team and it would be ashame if we got stuck with Kentucky, Cuse, or Carolina in the second round.

-if we are then on a semi-neutral floor we have decent chance to win, we play like anaheim, we win (so maybe the coaches should wear the same shirts they wore at the 76 classic)

-in my mind all we need is the chance as unless some match up is crazy bad against us, we can beat anyone

[mccarthyirish7]

-if we are then on a semi-neutral floor we have decent chance to win, we play like anaheim, we win (so maybe the coaches should wear the same shirts they wore at the 76 classic)

-in my mind all we need is the chance as unless some match up is crazy bad against us, we can beat anyone

I agree. I really think we're going to win the A10 tourney and end up with a 7 seed (even though we'll be screaming it should be a 5 or 6)...

[Cowboy]

-just looked at si.com and glockner has 4 a10 in -temple a 4, us a 9, x a 13 and svu an 11 in a play in (where the winner gets BAB's St Mary's)

[moytoy12]

-if we are then on a semi-neutral floor we have decent chance to win, we play like anaheim, we win (so maybe the coaches should wear the same shirts they wore at the 76 classic)

-in my mind all we need is the chance as unless some match up is crazy bad against us, we can beat anyone

I don't want to play against the 'cuse zone. I'll take my chances with the other 1 and 2 seeds.

[Scoop]

I would love to somehow get mizzou. Had a tiger fan try to tell me last night that mizzou would beat SLU by 19. Bring it.

[slu72]

That would piss me off too.

KY is just to dang talented and athletic up and down the lineup

UNC Henson and Zeller both 7 Feet and would give BC, CR, and RL fits, and Barnes...could luck with that match-up. DE I guess?

Syracuse would actually be the team I would be the least worried about. But then again I have seen what zone defenses have done to SLU and not many teams can run it like syracuse

As for the BCS vs mid majors debate.

Im not going to get into that but I do wonder what the NCAA is thinking. WHat makes the tourney great and why it makes tons of money is because of the chance for upsets and cinderalls.

Id much rather watch a 25-5 "mid major" get the invite than a 500 Iowa state or USF school.

WHen those weak BCS schools get in they are always one or two and done. When a strong non-football school gets in there is a much greater chance of seeing them make a run.

We have seen a lot of "mid majors" make sweet 16 and better type runs but I dont ever recall seeing a 500 BCS school make a long run.

Not sure about this, but I think NC State did it the year Valvano coached 'em.

[brianstl]

I don't want to play against the 'cuse zone. I'll take my chances with the other 1 and 2 seeds.

I would like to avoid Kentucky and Carolina to. I wouldn't mind getting KU in the second round. We all know there history of sending iopposing teams on nice runs.

[brianstl]

That would piss me off too.

KY is just to dang talented and athletic up and down the lineup

UNC Henson and Zeller both 7 Feet and would give BC, CR, and RL fits, and Barnes...could luck with that match-up. DE I guess?

Syracuse would actually be the team I would be the least worried about. But then again I have seen what zone defenses have done to SLU and not many teams can run it like syracuse

As for the BCS vs mid majors debate.

Im not going to get into that but I do wonder what the NCAA is thinking. WHat makes the tourney great and why it makes tons of money is because of the chance for upsets and cinderalls.

Id much rather watch a 25-5 "mid major" get the invite than a 500 Iowa state or USF school.

WHen those weak BCS schools get in they are always one or two and done. When a strong non-football school gets in there is a much greater chance of seeing them make a run.

We have seen a lot of "mid majors" make sweet 16 and better type runs but I dont ever recall seeing a 500 BCS school make a long run.

Iowa St and South Florida are both pretty good teams and are no where close to being on the bubble. The teams that will be knocking some deserving mid majors off the bubble will be the 3rd and possibly 4th team that gets in from the PAC 12.

[slu72]

Forget the talk about losing to La S to get a 10 or 11 seed. What happens if you lose to La S and they give you a 9 seed?...and for added punishment move you out to Portland to make sure your fans can't attend. Just win the A-10, get a 6 seed and play in Omaha or Louisville.

yeah, but it would make the Conklin family happy if we ended up playing in Portland. As for which #1 we get stuck with, I'd prefer we avoid KY and Cuse the most. KY's a beast with Davis. Cuse w/ the zone and Melo, probably just too strong. UNC's had it's ups and downs but we all know Roy Williams doesn't waste much practice time on D. We could possibly frustrate them, but RL would have to dig deep to stop Zeller. And KU did lose to Davidson, so at least we'd have that going for us. It seems to me the top 8 seeds this year are the best we've seen in awhile. And it's gonna take a 5 or 6 seed to avoid the big 8 assuming we get by the first round. For us to get a 5 or a 6 seed, we'll need to win the A-10 tourney.

[The Wiz]

Teams I would rather not face early on....Ky, NC, Kan, Oh St, & Mich St. If we can avoid these teams at the beginning then we could get to the elite 8....after that I would take my chances. Round 32 & elite 8 are particularly tough. RM does well when he has time to prepare....not so well when he doesn't. (32 & 8) ...Given that scenario, we should do well against La S this Fri...rested and prepared.

[David King]

i still say open this mother up even more. i personally would let em all in. but let's just say you have to have a positive record both conference and overall and then pitch the 128 teams. .

128 teams in the NCAA tournament would destroy college basketball.

Practically the whole point of the regular season is to make the NCAA tournament, and the NCAA tournament is the crown jewel of all college sports. Diluting it to 128 teams would take away a lot of the excitement, end up in twice as many boring, blow out games games, and greatly decrease the popularity of the tournament.

Discussions, arguments, and controversies over who's in and who's out play a big part in generating interest for the tournament.With 128 teams, the argument degenerates to; Since both LaSalle and UMass have <100 rpi's in the 7th best conference, don't they both deserve NCAA tournament consideration? The correct answer, of course, is ZZZZZZ...I'm already asleep. who gives a sh!t!

Personally, I think the NCAA selection committee has done a pretty good job of picking the field of 64. Most of the criteria is fairly concrete, but there will always be some grey areas where subjectivity comes into play. Of course a BCS conference team is going to have an advantage over a non-BCS team. Why? because BCS conferences are better. Northwestern beat Minnesota, Ill, and Iowa in their conference. All are below average Big 10 teams, but if Drexel had beat even one of them, they would be touting that as a "quality win".

68 is too many. it should've stayed at 64.

[David King]

I don't think .500 in conference, even a tough BCS one, is too much to require of a worthy Tournament team...Regarding Northwestern, I'm rooting for them...I would like to see them in their first ever Tournament. But, in my opinion, they don't deserve it...

I think that .500 in conference is already a rule of thumb, but only as a guideline, and there probably does need to be exceptions from time to time.

In the case of Northwestern- I don't see them getting in unless they win, at least 2 games in their tournament, which would be Minnesota and Michigan. Then, they would, in effect, be 10-10 in conference play. But, if they only beat Minnesota and lose to Michigan, they're still 19-13 playing in the toughest conference with a pretty solid non-conference schedule. Drexel, on the other hand plays the likes Hofstra, William& Mary, Towson...twice each!...among other chumps.

So, if it comes down to a 19-13 Northwestern vs. a 27-6 Drexel, the smart money is on Northwestern all day long. Besides, it would be a much more popular pick, among the masses. I'm sure Warren Beatty and Ann Margret, Saul Bellow, Charleton Heston, and Rod Blagojevich, among many others, agree.

[kwyjibo]

UPDATE:

Of the Bracketologists who have updated in the last 2 days SLU is an average of 9.04 seed. What is interesting is that SLU has drifted up despite not playing, however, I think that is just a minor "copycat" factor" after Lunardi put SLU at 10 (luckily, he is below average in accuracy even though he has the most visibility).

7 Seed -- 2

8 Seed -- 12

9 Seed -- 35

10 Seed -- 10

11 Seed -- 4

9 seems to be consensus now but that will likely change (losing to LaSalle would put the team out to a likely 11--maybe 10). Wins will bring the seed down. Hope to see you in Atlantic City (I cannot go today but there is a good chance I will be there tomorrow).

Oh, again, SLU is already in; probably literally--they already locked in a bunch of teams--not public of course-- and SLU could very well already be in.

[slu72]

I thought after the X and DU wins we'd be a lock. But that old "it's hard being a Billiken fan" flu bug is showing symptons. At this point, I'd be happy if the committee came out and said you're an 11 or a 12 seed take it to the bank. I'm gonna feel a whole lot better if we beat LaSalle. And there's no reason we shouldn't, of course, I said that about RI too.