Timmerman's Fordham Review

[moytoy12]

Here: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-fordham-game-in-review/article_7eb3caae-5ac1-11e1-815f-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1mrnajQsV

Given all the back and forth on the board about it, I found the following comment very interesting:

"Jordair Jett hit some very nice mid-range shots and he may have the best mid-range game on the team. Majerus said he's been working with the assistant coaches on that and it was good to see his work pay off. Jett was +10."

[Bizziken]

Jeff Coffey sighting...totally forgot about him...

[AMDG]

nice article to read.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Jeff Coffey sighting...totally forgot about him...

Jeff Coffey...the walk-on that Soderberg gave meaningful playing time to over scholarship player Dustin Maguire in a close game at Temple in Soderberg's year. It was a moment when I really questioned what Brad was doing.

Coffey also may have been the SLU player that Majerus mentioned the most in the press conference announcing his hiring. When Majerus met with the team upon being hired, he told them that it was going to be different at SLU because he coached a bunch of Mormons at Utah, but he figured that it wouldn't be the case at SLU. Coffey then proceeded to tell Majerus that he was a Mormon. Rick then referred to Coffey as "Jeff the Mormon kid" a few times in the press conference.

[kshoe]

Timmerman does a good job with the follow up articles. Glad to see him point out one temple loss could lead to a co championship. Wonder if he decided to include that after reading the thread here a couple days ago.

[SluSignGuy]

I very much enjoy Timmerman's reviews. I think Timmerman didn't need the board for the co-championship (he has been talking about it for a few weeks).

I, however, don't like him thinking we are a sure thing for the tourney. As a Billiken fan, I am primed to be disappointed.

[slu72]

I very much enjoy Timmerman's reviews. I think Timmerman didn't need the board for the co-championship (he has been talking about it for a few weeks).

I, however, don't like him thinking we are a sure thing for the tourney. As a Billiken fan, I am primed to be disappointed.

You're a Princeton grad. You're trained to be an optimist.

[Taj79]

@moy ---- I was waiting for that one. Jett might have the best mid-range game on the team. If that's true, a first-place finish in a race against yourself is still a first-place finish.

Jett did make two mid-range jumpers against Fordham that is true. And he looked good in doing it. Here to hope that he cointinues and that he continues to improve.

As to the one-dog race, who else on the team do you place in competition with Jett? Conklin, Remekun and Evans? No competition there. McCall, Cassity, and Mitchell are all long-range gunners for the most part, Jett is not (2 of 7). Loe and Ellis bombs away. Jett might be the only guy who actually does shoot the mid-range 14 - 17 footer.

In all reality, I'd give Kwamain and Mike better jump shooting grades. Problem is it seems they either toe the line or take it to the hole.

Jett is a key player,though. On any given night ......................

[moytoy12]

@moy ---- I was waiting for that one. Jett might have the best mid-range game on the team. If that's true, a first-place finish in a race against yourself is still a first-place finish.

Jett did make two mid-range jumpers against Fordham that is true. And he looked good in doing it. Here to hope that he cointinues and that he continues to improve.

As to the one-dog race, who else on the team do you place in competition with Jett? Conklin, Remekun and Evans? No competition there. McCall, Cassity, and Mitchell are all long-range gunners for the most part, Jett is not (2 of 7). Loe and Ellis bombs away. Jett might be the only guy who actually does shoot the mid-range 14 - 17 footer.

In all reality, I'd give Kwamain and Mike better jump shooting grades. Problem is it seems they either toe the line or take it to the hole.

Jett is a key player,though. On any given night ......................

Come on, Taj. I can't remember exactly what you said, but I believe it was in the ball park of JJ not being a good mid-range jump shooter. Well, his stats disagree with your opinion. Now TT asserts that he might have the best mid-range game on a team of CE, KC, MM, KM, and RL and you say none of these guys can shoot from the mid-range.

JJ has a decent mid-range game. I'm sorry you can't give him credit for that.

[Taj79]

@moy --- I think I said JJ had no mid-range game. Okay, it's getting better but it might be the only one on the team in terms of frequency. You quoted FG% as a key determination if I recall. I'll agree to that providing we back out all the layups and tip-ins JJ gets. And the 2-for-7 from triple land. Let me ask you this -------- rank who you want taking the last second shot to tie or win? My vote would be Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Conklin, Evans, and Loe. Right now, JJ is not a consideration UNLESS he is driving to the bucket. Then, I'd settle for a 10-foot pull-up. But if I'm the defense and he's driving, I'm putting him on the line for two before I give him anything else.

In defense of the article, TT quoted or paraphrased RM as saying JJ has the best mid-range game, I think. TT is a sports writier and I am in a very good position to say sportswriters are no experts. I worked with bonowich; he with me. It was noted in another thread by someone that RM is a key motivator, that he might be using the press to pump up certain players like JM. He might be doing the same here, hoping the TT statements instill more confidence in the kid and cause him to use it more. I like JJ off the dribble; all he and Cassity have to do is hit the occassional jumper to keep defenses honest.

Best mid-rnage game between CE, KC, MM, KM and RL? Sure ---- but they don't play the mid-range game, they bomb away (although not so much KC and CE did go on the blocks but the blocks are not a mid-range game either). If JJ is the best we got, then we don't have one. Now,I would prefer he be in competition for best mid-range game with BC and DE. They obviously need one because they are blowing bunnies and a 12 to 14-foot jump shot would open them up with a better array of weapons.

[billiken_roy]

TT is a sports writier and I am in a very good position to say sportswriters are no experts. I worked with bonowich; he with me.

this is a great point. there is a reason taj and bonwich are now a spinmaster for the govt and a restaurant critic.

[Clock_Tower]

@moy --- I think I said JJ had no mid-range game. Okay, it's getting better but it might be the only one on the team in terms of frequency. You quoted FG% as a key determination if I recall. I'll agree to that providing we back out all the layups and tip-ins JJ gets. And the 2-for-7 from triple land. Let me ask you this -------- rank who you want taking the last second shot to tie or win? My vote would be Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Conklin, Evans, and Loe. Right now, JJ is not a consideration UNLESS he is driving to the bucket. Then, I'd settle for a 10-foot pull-up. But if I'm the defense and he's driving, I'm putting him on the line for two before I give him anything else.

In defense of the article, TT quoted or paraphrased RM as saying JJ has the best mid-range game, I think. TT is a sports writier and I am in a very good position to say sportswriters are no experts. I worked with bonowich; he with me. It was noted in another thread by someone that RM is a key motivator, that he might be using the press to pump up certain players like JM. He might be doing the same here, hoping the TT statements instill more confidence in the kid and cause him to use it more. I like JJ off the dribble; all he and Cassity have to do is hit the occassional jumper to keep defenses honest.

Best mid-rnage game between CE, KC, MM, KM and RL? Sure ---- but they don't play the mid-range game, they bomb away (although not so much KC and CE did go on the blocks but the blocks are not a mid-range game either). If JJ is the best we got, then we don't have one. Now,I would prefer he be in competition for best mid-range game with BC and DE. They obviously need one because they are blowing bunnies and a 12 to 14-foot jump shot would open them up with a better array of weapons.

Taj.

First, "mid range" game is also a term that can be used to simply mean - everything but the 3 point shot. In that context, the comment fits.

Second, I'd recommend that all players take the layup instead of pulling up and hitting the 10 footer. To me, this is not proof that the kid cannot hit the 10 footer, but instead, that he prefers the layup.

Third, the offense is designed to produce the best shots available for the team - not for any individual player. I, for one, am not interested in adding to BC's stats by trying to get him 10 footers -- even though a 10 footer would be a good shot for BC. Instead, I'd rather the team get a better shot such as a bunny for BC and/or DE.

Fourth, these bunnies are really tough shots whereby BC and DE are going up against bigger (and sometimes better, more athletic... players). Just by taking the bunnies, the opposing team's defense is changed. Because of all of BC's success earlier in the season, the lane is packed more, help-side defense is watching BC very closely and shutting down BC is the other team's priority. I would welcome other teams focusing less on BC and DE since they can't make the bunnies as so many are suggesting. If so, I see another huge game for BC.

Fifth, opposing defensive schemes against BC are now leaving room for KM and the guards. CE's recent success is further making things much, much worse on the other team's defense.

Wonder why our Bills continue to win with a "mediocre" offense, with undersized bigs who can't make bunnies, with guards who can't make FT's and with guards possessing no "mid-range" game.

[Taj79]

@clock --- to me, a mid-range game involves a jumper of some sort. Off the blocks, let's say, staring at what, five or six feet from the basket? Going to about 15 or 16 feet. To me, it can't be everything but the three point shot because you'd have to take out the short-range game. My definition. Just outside charge arc to foul line extended.

Second point --- agree. I'd rather layups over shots of distance anytime. That was not my point, what I meant was if a jump shot was to be taken, these were my descending preferences. I would take JJ on the drive, and I fell that he is at a good point confidence- and style-wise to break that drive off and stop and pop. He seems to be better at moving into a shot, as opposed to a CE or Loe who needs their feet set more than not. Although both KM and MM have shown a great ability to stop and drop a tear drop over a big man if needed. All I'm advocating is playing to individual strengths, not saying one is better than the other, just put that player in a position/situation that he can best succeed from.

Third ---- agree. I have no argument with getting the best shot for the best available player. I am not advocating more ten footers for either BC or DE. I can just see adding that component to their game making their game and our overall team even better.

Fourth --- I used to tell a guy on my team, "stay out of the trees." He was a six-foot, no-can-jump little guy who was a better sharpshooter then layup artist so I didn't want him down in the trees where he was guaranteed to get swatted, either turning the ball over or demoralizing his game. I understand you have to take the ball at the trees if you are BC and DE but we are all seeing how they know the territory and are rushing some. Bob Knight says you take the ball at a shot blocker and you pump fake. All I'm saying is if BC and DE took and made a few more mid-range jumpers, the avenue to the basket might open up even more. Maybe not.

Fifth --- agee and what that demonstartes is how tough and how many options this team has. I said early on that with RL, CE, KM, MM, JB and KC, we should have at least two options per night clicking from the outside, making it harder to defend us and opening up other lanes for attack. You cover KM, you lose CE. You cover CE, you miss KM. MM pump fakes and drives to the hole. Same with JJ. Covered? Inside to BC or DE.

I have never said we have a mediocre offense. I think we have a great offense with multiple options. With limitations. All cylinders firing are needed to make it all work. When it hums --- its Nova, Oklahoma, Washington and Duquesne. When it doesn't hum, its a first half against Umass.

This whole thing is about my assessmenbt of JJ's mid-range game and shooting ability. It's getting better, but it ain't great and to say it is our "best" leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.

[jbizzle09]

And the great 'mid-range' debate continues, and will probably do so until the end of time...

[moytoy12]

And the great 'mid-range' debate continues, and will probably do so until the end of time...

Someone had to continue the battle since you had the audacity to up and get married in Vegas.

[jbizzle09]

Someone had to continue the battle since you had the audacity to up and get married in Vegas.

My bad...I obviously didn't have my priorities straight.

[Clock_Tower]

@clock --- to me, a mid-range game involves a jumper of some sort. Off the blocks, let's say, staring at what, five or six feet from the basket? Going to about 15 or 16 feet. To me, it can't be everything but the three point shot because you'd have to take out the short-range game. My definition. Just outside charge arc to foul line extended.

Second point --- agree. I'd rather layups over shots of distance anytime. That was not my point, what I meant was if a jump shot was to be taken, these were my descending preferences. I would take JJ on the drive, and I fell that he is at a good point confidence- and style-wise to break that drive off and stop and pop. He seems to be better at moving into a shot, as opposed to a CE or Loe who needs their feet set more than not. Although both KM and MM have shown a great ability to stop and drop a tear drop over a big man if needed. All I'm advocating is playing to individual strengths, not saying one is better than the other, just put that player in a position/situation that he can best succeed from.

Third ---- agree. I have no argument with getting the best shot for the best available player. I am not advocating more ten footers for either BC or DE. I can just see adding that component to their game making their game and our overall team even better.

Fourth --- I used to tell a guy on my team, "stay out of the trees." He was a six-foot, no-can-jump little guy who was a better sharpshooter then layup artist so I didn't want him down in the trees where he was guaranteed to get swatted, either turning the ball over or demoralizing his game. I understand you have to take the ball at the trees if you are BC and DE but we are all seeing how they know the territory and are rushing some. Bob Knight says you take the ball at a shot blocker and you pump fake. All I'm saying is if BC and DE took and made a few more mid-range jumpers, the avenue to the basket might open up even more. Maybe not.

Fifth --- agee and what that demonstartes is how tough and how many options this team has. I said early on that with RL, CE, KM, MM, JB and KC, we should have at least two options per night clicking from the outside, making it harder to defend us and opening up other lanes for attack. You cover KM, you lose CE. You cover CE, you miss KM. MM pump fakes and drives to the hole. Same with JJ. Covered? Inside to BC or DE.

I have never said we have a mediocre offense. I think we have a great offense with multiple options. With limitations. All cylinders firing are needed to make it all work. When it hums --- its Nova, Oklahoma, Washington and Duquesne. When it doesn't hum, its a first half against Umass.

This whole thing is about my assessmenbt of JJ's mid-range game and shooting ability. It's getting better, but it ain't great and to say it is our "best" leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.

Taj.

Plain and simple. If BC does not attempt the short shot (contested and "in the trees") then no one on our team takes this shot - at least not very often. Sorry to bring up the the name of WR, but if we had him on the inside instead of RL/CE, then BC and DE could afford to take the 10' shot - mid range. Whether he misses the interior shots or not, our team needs someone to shoot them and keep the other team honest. And based upon our current roster, BC is the guy I want shooting the interior shot. DE also does well but not quite as well as BC. Complaints that BC misses too many is obvious. Of course, we would want him (and the others) to make all of their shots. It is what it is though and BC is our best at doing so on the team. Unless I am misreading your post, it appears that you are advocating BC and DE shoot the 12' to 14' instead. If so, I'd suggest that would be disastrous to the team - even if they made a good percentage of these shots. Teams without interior points/production are streaky and will not win enough games.

[Cowboy]

-i believe it was in TT's web report that the team had two days off (sun and mon), i hope they used that to study and gather some much needed rest for the rest of the way

-for rhodey (233), their wins, all of them, and (kenpom)...home: hofstra (200), umass (75) away: bc (239), svu (89), neutral james madison (223)

-some losses...@brown(308), maine(280), @ford(261)

-no let downs!!!

[Taj79]

@clock --- I am not advocating anything. I said if BC and DE maybe did take the 12 to 14 foot shot and made some, it would serve to POSSIBLY open up other avenues for success. That's alot of shoudla,coudla, wouldas. No guarantees. So I am also all for keeping the guys doing what they are doing. As you pointed out, we need the interior points and interior presence they bring. It opens up the outside where I believe we are deadliest. In a perfect world, DE, for example, makes a rare three, stops and pops three or four mid range scores, and blasts to the glass on layups and rebound slam backs. Right now, his only option is the layups --- he doesn't shoot the three, he doesn't play the mid-range, and he's vertically challenged to rise up and throw down with authority. But he is still ours and vital.

@moy & bizz ---- Again, if JJ's mid-range game is the best on our team, he's winning a one-man race right now. What's he shooting from the floor minus lay ups, threes and tap ins? There's the naked answer.

[moytoy12]

@moy & bizz ---- Again, if JJ's mid-range game is the best on our team, he's winning a one-man race right now. What';s he shooting from the floor minus lay uyps, threes and tap ins? There's the naked answer.

We've provided this number in the past. I believe earlier this season when we did the analysis it was around 50%. And no, this did not include layups, threes and tap-ins. Since that time, he's had a couple of 0-for jumper games and a couple of 2-3, 3-3 jumper games. I suspect his performance since the earlier analysis hasn't significantly move the needle either way.

I'm too hungover today to update the analysis for the season to date.

[RiseAndGrind]

We've provided this number in the past. I believe earlier this season when we did the analysis it was around 50%. And no, this did not include layups, threes and tap-ins. Since that time, he's had a couple of 0-for jumper games and a couple of 2-3, 3-3 jumper games. I suspect his performance since the earlier analysis hasn't significantly move the needle either way.

I'm too hungover today to update the analysis for the season to date.

It's Wednesday, dude. Were you out with Jimbo or something?

[jbizzle09]

We've provided this number in the past. I believe earlier this season when we did the analysis it was around 50%. And no, this did not include layups, threes and tap-ins. Since that time, he's had a couple of 0-for jumper games and a couple of 2-3, 3-3 jumper games. I suspect his performance since the earlier analysis hasn't significantly move the needle either way.

I'm too hungover today to update the analysis for the season to date.

I am with you. I am feeling way too rough today to try to do that game-by-game, shot-by-shot analysis right now. Still dealing with the Vegas hangover. We've done the analysis in the past, however, and it showed that he was a decent mid-range jump shooter his freshman year. His overall FG% has increased significantly this year, so it would be a safe assumption that his mid-range game has also improved. If it was decent last year, it would be reasonable to assume that it is good this year.

Last season, his mid-range jump shot percentage was in line with his overall FG% (he shot .423 in 2010-11.) This season, he is shooting .492. My feeling is that if you do the breakdown, you will see that he is shooting his mid-range jumpers at a high-40s clip. My thought is that Taj thinks that his shot just doesn't 'look good', and that regardless of what the stats say, it can't be accepted that he is a good mid-range jump shooter.

[moytoy12]

It's Wednesday, dude. Were you out with Jimbo or something?

Gotta love those local Boulder breweries, except the morning after. Of course, it probably didn't help that I pounded through some red wine when i got home. I have no idea why i thought I was in my early 20's last night.

Also, this was a test run for the 28th. Gotta practice like you'll play the game.

[jimbofive]

Gotta love those local Boulder breweries, except the morning after. Of course, it probably didn't help that I pounded through some red wine when i got home. I have no idea why i thought I was in my early 20's last night.

Also, this was a test run for the 28th. Gotta practice like you'll play the game.

Got a friend coming into town for the weekend so we're doing the Stranahan's tour at 11 AM Friday morning. Should turn out well. Denver might have more functioning alcoholics per capita than almost anywhere. Even more than wherever Martha Stewart lives.