Current state of Billiken Basketball

[Box and Won]

The reason why there are so many old folks at the game is because the Bills were awesome back when they were in school, and they've been hooked ever since. Funny how that works.

There is actually a semi-decent number of fans in their low- to mid-30s (including me and many of the posters here on the board) who are season ticket holders. It just so happens that the Bills appeared in the NCAAs and NIT on a fairly regular basis while we were in school.

I would guess that there is some correlation between the ages of the season ticket holders and the level of success the Bills achieved while those season ticket holders were in college.

I don't have people yelling at me to sit down, because I'm in the last row of our section - it's great.

[moytoy12]

If not, I am not so sure we are going to get past 19-20 wins.

Are you?

Yes. We're going to the dance and to get there, I assume we will have to win more than 20 games.

[moytoy12]

As to Duke, you brought it up, I thought you had more maturity than moytoy, always crying about something.

Pot meet kettle.

Go see your first post on this thread. The whole post was nothing more than "i'm gonna take my ball and go home thanks to that big ole meanie Biondi". Boo f'ing hoo. Get over it. Move on.

The whole "i'm thinking of my last post" was an especially nice touch. That had to be an especially tough moment for you. I hope you had enough tissues for all those tears.

Regardless, it's ok to have a good cry, MB73. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[MB73]

Yes. We're going to the dance and to get there, I assume we will have to win more than 20 games.

Yes, 20 wins does not get us into the NCAA unless of course we win A-10 Tourney.

20 will probably not get us into the NIT, either (if we go to CBI or that other little league tourney, then we can get more than 20, OK, fine, but that is not a solid representation of the season if that happens).

BIG THING IS, you say, after 11 wins last season, we are going to the NCAA's? WOW.

How many wins?

What place in the A-10 regular season?

[moytoy12]

BIG THING IS, you say, after 11 wins last season, we are going to the NCAA's? WOW.

How many wins?

What place in the A-10 regular season?

Yes, after 11 wins last season, we're going to the NCAA tourney. How many times do I have to say it for you to realize what i'm saying?

How many wins? Enough to get us in the tourney.

2nd place in the A-10 regular season.

[MB73]

Lol. I agree with you on Duke. Even though Ive always liked NC better, Duke is THE program.

I would do many things to have SLU be Duke.

For-DaLove, OK, you reached out a bit. Good man.

SO I will reciprocate: seriously, I would not recommend that a kid goes to Duke if he / she has other real, quality options.

Sure, if it is a good scholarship to Duke, weigh your options, maybe go there, but if he / she can go to another good or comperable school, tell him / her not to go to Duke.

Surprised, confused, oh those of you with little intelect? I kid you not.

[For-DaLove]

Yes, after 11 wins last season, we're going to the NCAA tourney. How many times do I have to say it for you to realize what i'm saying?

How many wins? Enough to get us in the tourney.

2nd place in the A-10 regular season.

Ranked before conference play. There's my bold prediction.

[For-DaLove]

For-DaLove, OK, you reached out a bit. Good man.

SO I will reciprocate: seriously, I would not recommend that a kid goes to Duke if he / she has other real, quality options.

Sure, if it is a good scholarship to Duke, weigh your options, maybe go there, but if he / she can go to another good or comperable school, tell him / her not to go to Duke.

Surprised, confused, oh those of you with little intelect? I kid you not.

Just giving my honest opinion. I just like giving people ######, and I feel youre a big enough person to take a few jokes about your love for Duke.

You mind explaining why that is about Duke? I would recommend it to most kids, especially athletes looking for a good education.

[waldo027]

When MB says we'll only win 19-20 games and miss the NIT, maybe he's assuming Majerus won't be coaching and Mitchell won't be playing.

[jbizzle09]

MB73...bringing stupid bullsh*t to the Billiken fanbase since 1973!

[slufanskip]

I actually liked this post. At least it is honest about being mad, and you are right about SLU (Biondi or the athletics department, the WR situation is a giant mess and someone's head should roll because of it) and how difficult it is to recruit bigs at a mid-major. However, I have some points of contention.

We will be a lot better than last year, and I truly believe we will be better than 2009/10. Everyone forgets that we were expected to be really bad in 09/10; we had a bunch of young players, with little or no leadership, and then all of a sudden we were magic. You are right, WR played biggest part of it, and his loss is a big one. You have to realize though, WR made a weak team look great in 09/10. He essentially dominated the paint, and showed that he was head and shoulders better than almost everyone he faced. But, now we are not a weak team, we have a lot of depth, and support at all skill positions. We also have experienced big men to throw into the fray, even if they are not WR. They will be able to match-up against other teams and at least play to a draw. Also, it is reasonable to expect at least one of RL, CE, or CR to make huge strides in the off-season; all have the talent to play at a much higher level.

I actually ran some numbers on this a while back, and was surprised, we held teams to about the same points last year as in 09/10, but we scored a few points less. Next year we will score a lot more, with about the same defense. It will be a noticeable difference.

I agree about the MVC. I have talked with dozens of SLU fans, and almost a hundred uninterested St. Louisans about SLU and the A10, and all seem to say the same thing: "Why is SLU in the A10" and "I don't care about the A10." The only people who really support the A10 are on this board. Everyone builds up the ability of the A10 to place us in the tournament, but this is fools gold (We only make it 2/10 years if we are lucky). We lose out on having real, honest to god, rivalries; and we lose out on having a fan base that actually cares about the conference games. I think Majerus is wiser than anyone realizes on this account. Think about it, we may never succeed in the A10, but we could be a perennial powerhouse in the MVC because of our location in a major city in the heart of the conference. (Here is a good analogy, would it benefit Butler to move to the A10?). The only logical explanation for the A10 is for academic reasons or for soccer, and I wonder if the benefits exceed the loses.

If Spoon can pull one of the top players in the country, then Majerus can bring in 4*-5* players, we just need to win and get some momentum.

The rivalries and conference games people care about don't happen in the MVC. Name the conference games from the mvc people would show up for in larger numbers than they would X, Dayton, Temple? SIUC? Nope, Mo St? well we've still played them and the attendance spike is hardly noticeable if at all. Maybe It's Ill. State.

When we win in the A10 and are battling a ranked X or Temple for the conference title people will fill Chaifitz.

[joe_davola]

The reason why there are so many old folks at the game is because the Bills were awesome back when they were in school, and they've been hooked ever since. Funny how that works.

There is actually a semi-decent number of fans in their low- to mid-30s (including me and many of the posters here on the board) who are season ticket holders. It just so happens that the Bills appeared in the NCAAs and NIT on a fairly regular basis while we were in school.

I would guess that there is some correlation between the ages of the season ticket holders and the level of success the Bills achieved while those season ticket holders were in college.

I don't have people yelling at me to sit down, because I'm in the last row of our section - it's great.

+1

[Duff Man]

Yes, 20 wins does not get us into the NCAA unless of course we win A-10 Tourney.

20 will probably not get us into the NIT, either (if we go to CBI or that other little league tourney, then we can get more than 20, OK, fine, but that is not a solid representation of the season if that happens).

BIG THING IS, you say, after 11 wins last season, we are going to the NCAA's? WOW.

We've done it before, we'll do it again.

(regular season W-L)

1992-93: 11-16

1993-94: 22-4 (NCAA Tournament)

...

1996-97: 10-17

1997-98: 20-9 (NCAA Tournament)

[MB73]

MB73...bringing stupid bullsh*t to the Billiken fanbase since 1973!

Someone needs to start a new low-intellect board for jbizzle09, for simpleton SLU fans.

[MB73]

We've done it before, we'll do it again.

(regular season W-L)

1992-93: 11-16

1993-94: 22-4 (NCAA Tournament)

...

1996-97: 10-17

1997-98: 20-9 (NCAA Tournament)

Proof.

[MB73]

The rivalries and conference games people care about don't happen in the MVC. Name the conference games from the mvc people would show up for in larger numbers than they would X, Dayton, Temple? SIUC? Nope, Mo St? well we've still played them and the attendance spike is hardly noticeable if at all. Maybe It's Ill. State.

When we win in the A10 and are battling a ranked X or Temple for the conference title people will fill Chaifitz.

There is some merit to your argument, we now have fan interest in playing Dayton & X & Temple, but the leagues are cyclical and earlier when MVC was on top 5-6-7 yrs ago I think we would have developed some rivalries against some of the (then) MVC high ranked teams.

Now, the last 2 yrs The A-10 is the better league RPI wise and all of that... but, is that the sole determinant of where we should be?

Again, I have not gone to one godd*m MVC Tourney Game all this time, I am not some fan aligned with them, or have some business relationship or relative that works there. They are a so-so mid major conference.

I just believe that looking at the whole picture going to the A-10 was clearly the worst choice we could have made. And (broy) geography is just one of the many reasons, not the only issue to be cited.

An earlier poster asked: "should Butler join the A-10"? Think.

[jbizzle09]

Someone needs to start a new low-intellect board for jbizzle09, for simpleton SLU fans.

MB, you slay me. First off, I think it is hilarious that a 60 year old man (assuming you are a 1973 grad) resorts to the childish rants that you are prone to. You are always good for a fly off the handle, nonsensical tirade where you invite ridicule. Once the inevitable ridicule starts, then you start throwing the personal insults around and pointing out that people are skewing your statements and taking what you say out of context. To be honest, it is actually quite amusing.

I also love that you apparently have tons of sources that provide you all kinds of information that usually turns out wrong. You just atated you were told that RM was going to quit prior to the start of the coming season. You also pointed out that Duke was going to embarrass and humiliate Michigan in the NCAA tourney due to the Fab Five documentary. We already know about the Pujols thing because some higher up in the organization told you that.

Feel free to not renew your season tickets. Stick it to SLU where it hurts. However, I think you'll miss a lot of good basketball and a possible NCAA run. I would think that if you put up with the rough season last year that you would want to be there to see the team rebound in a big way. While you feel that KM and WR got a raw deal, KM sucked it up and came back and did it without any histrionics. Don't you want to support KM and cheer him on as he leads this team?

You threaten to leave the board and make one last glorious post, which I can only assume will be a total kiss-off and diss to all of the MB73 bashers on the board. To that I can only say this: PLEASE DON'T LEAVE. It is far too entertaining seeing you go batsh*t, call people names, blame liberals and generally make outlandish and inaccurate statements that come back to bite you in the a$$ time and time again. However, if that is getting too tiresome for you, by all means leave. Have a wonderful 4th of July!

[slufan13]

We won 23 games 2 years ago. We're better than we were 2 years ago and the rest of the A-10 is probably worse. Xavier and Temple are still there, but Richmond will be down. Dayton will be down as well (they would've sucked either way).

[GoBills]

An interesting discussion touching on a lot of different topics. I am one of those old guys who helps support the program. I have supported Billiken basketball for more than 40 years in different ways. Now, I am among that core of about 6,000 die-hards who will be there through thick and thin. When I was young I yelled my head off cheering for the likes of Joe Wiley, Harry Rogers and Jim Irving. Today, I continue to enjoy the game but in a different way. I'm still rooting for the Bills, but I am a lot less emotional about. I don't yell much, but I enjoy seeing younger fans do it. I would love to see 1,000 screaming students at a game. I study things like match-ups, substitution patterns, offensive sets. I still really enjoy the games, but in a different way. Considering how mediocre the product has been for most of the last 40 years, I think SLU's fan following is quite strong and loyal. A lot of programs with better results on the court over the years have had worse attendance. As we saw with Coach Grawer during the NIT runs and later with the rise of Spoonball, if the team starts winning, others will quickly join the core of 6,000 fans. This is a pivotal season. The new arena has helped attract a lot more students. Some of the best student turnouts have been over the last few years. They have done a good job and will do a great job if the program can put out a consistent winner. That will help build the fans of tomorrow to take over for us old folks.

Like other long suffering fans, it is easy to expect the worst, but looking at this upcoming season objectively I really think there are reasons for optimism. It is not impossible to go from 11 or 12 wins to the NCAA Tournamet. Spoon did it in his second season. Rather than compare this team to last year's team, as others have pointed out, I think it more accurate to compare this team to the 23-win team of two years ago. Yes, the Bills will be without Willie, but the 2011-12 version will be better in so many other areas than the 2009-10 team. More depth, better shooting, more athleticism, more experience. I understand the caution, but Billiken fans, it is ok to be very optimistic about next season.

[DirtyRican]

If every Bill's fan was like the Dude this world would be the greatest place.

[Major Majerus]

If every Bill's fan was like the Dude this world would be the greatest place.

It's the only D1 team in town, and most of the time we're competitive. I'm a hoops junky and I love it. This year will be one of the high tides.

[brianstl]

It's the only D1 team in town, and most of the time we're competitive. I'm a hoops junky and I love it. This year will be one of the high tides.

A10 champs. Book it.

People really don't understand how loaded next years team is. There has never been a more talented roster top to bottom in my lifetime.

[waldo027]

A10 champs. Book it.

People really don't understand how loaded next years team is. There has never been a more talented roster top to bottom in my lifetime.

I understand it.

Our leaders in minutes last year were McCall, Jett, Cassity, Evans and Conklin. At least 3 of those guys will be coming off the bench next year.

[slu72]

Finally! A good thread that is somewhat objecive about our chances this upcoming season. First though, I hope MB 73 doesn't go into exile. Although, I disagree with the idea that the loss of WR is going to doom us to the CBI. At a minimum this team has got to be NIT material. At the maximum, a potential run to the sweet 16. What supports this after only an 11 win season? In large part it is due to the return of KM. Granted he's no Legend, but he maybe the best player we've had since him in terms of leadership, guts, and talent. And unlike KL and TL, he does have a better supporting cast around him. Yes, no doubt, having WR in that cast would have been huge. With WR this would have been a very strong team. But he's gone. But all is not lost. RM will have these guys playing good D regardless of who's on the floor. And college ball isn't loaded with a bunch of good bigs who can dominate even a good defensive team. We will probably run up against maybe 5-6 teams this year that will cause us major problems with their inside game like Portland did last year. And keep in mind, toward the end of last season we saw more of RL playing ineterior D and showing progress. No, he's not a WR and never will be, but he doesn't need to be either. The way I see it is KM is a given as far as being a quality PG, KC is a given as far as an efficient manager of the floor. BC is a given as to a tough interior guy who will grab some boards and on occassion provide some inside scoring. The expectations come from the development of the rest of the team. Have MM DE, JJ, CE, and RL all improved over the summer will determine whether we are NCAA caliber. Will JB live up to the RM hype as being all conference caliber? No doubt if JB, CE, RL, and KM prove effective from 3 pt land that will more than offset the loss of any points we're sacrificing from WR's departure. As for our frosh, temper your expectations early and hope for development with 1/3 of the season left. Bottom line is we don't have a game changer Frosh. The guy who would really be a surprise and an added bonus would be CR really stepping up and giving us valuable inside minutes. But he's a believe it when I see it factor at this time. So, while I disagree with MB 73's projection, I can see where he has justifiable doubts about how well this season will go. But if all these pieces fall into place as we expect, and they are not unreasonable expectations, we should be dancing.

[Clock_Tower]

Finally! A good thread that is somewhat objecive about our chances this upcoming season. First though, I hope MB 73 doesn't go into exile. Although, I disagree with the idea that the loss of WR is going to doom us to the CBI. At a minimum this team has got to be NIT material. At the maximum, a potential run to the sweet 16. What supports this after only an 11 win season? In large part it is due to the return of KM. Granted he's no Legend, but he maybe the best player we've had since him in terms of leadership, guts, and talent. And unlike KL and TL, he does have a better supporting cast around him. Yes, no doubt, having WR in that cast would have been huge. With WR this would have been a very strong team. But he's gone. But all is not lost. RM will have these guys playing good D regardless of who's on the floor. And college ball isn't loaded with a bunch of good bigs who can dominate even a good defensive team. We will probably run up against maybe 5-6 teams this year that will cause us major problems with their inside game like Portland did last year. And keep in mind, toward the end of last season we saw more of RL playing ineterior D and showing progress. No, he's not a WR and never will be, but he doesn't need to be either. The way I see it is KM is a given as far as being a quality PG, KC is a given as far as an efficient manager of the floor. BC is a given as to a tough interior guy who will grab some boards and on occassion provide some inside scoring. The expectations come from the development of the rest of the team. Have MM DE, JJ, CE, and RL all improved over the summer will determine whether we are NCAA caliber. Will JB live up to the RM hype as being all conference caliber? No doubt if JB, CE, RL, and KM prove effective from 3 pt land that will more than offset the loss of any points we're sacrificing from WR's departure. As for our frosh, temper your expectations early and hope for development with 1/3 of the season left. Bottom line is we don't have a game changer Frosh. The guy who would really be a surprise and an added bonus would be CR really stepping up and giving us valuable inside minutes. But he's a believe it when I see it factor at this time. So, while I disagree with MB 73's projection, I can see where he has justifiable doubts about how well this season will go. But if all these pieces fall into place as we expect, and they are not unreasonable expectations, we should be dancing.

KC is a given as far as an efficient manager of the floor. BC is a given as to a tough interior guy who will grab some boards and on occassion provide some inside scoring.

A "given" at what? We have the talent to be a Tourney team this year - don't have to wait to next year. With that said, if this team relies upon KC and BC, we will be, at best, an NIT team. No doubt KC and BC will be Seniors, play some key minutes and make real contributions to this team, but if KC is our best at the 2 or 3 and if BC is our best 4, then we are in trouble.