Current state of Billiken Basketball

[Billsrmajic]

Last yr was "it", our chance to make a splash, but the incident killed it. Like deflecting the asteroid headed for Earth. One chance.

I cannot see us recovering.

We would have gone to NCAA's, WR would have still left coming into this yr, but we would have huge momentum and probably some better recruits. BIGS.

SO 2011-2012, we'll win 19-20 games, but not make the NIT, unless there is a HUGE miracle development, someone like RL a la the improvement of WR from freshman to soph yr, plus unexpected incredible "D" from Manning, .

I cannot let this go without a response. This post is ridiculous. We're going to win 19-20 games unless a miracle occurs? Give me a break. We won 23 games two years ago. Let's compare rosters:

1 - Mitchell/Jett vs. Mitchell/Jordan (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

2 - McCall/Cassity vs. Salecich (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

3 - Evans/Barnett vs. Cassity (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

4 - Ellis/Glaze/Conklin vs. Ellis/Conklin (Advantage to the 2011-12 team)

5 - Loe/Manning/Remekun vs. Reed/Smith/Remekun (Big advantage to the 2009-10 team)

In my opinion at three positions we are much better. At one position we're better. At one position we're much worse. And that doesn't even take into account that we'll have 12 guys who can compete in practice. In 2010-11 our 10th man after Christmas was Darrin Young. Depth was not a strong suit of that team.

The schedule will be tougher, but unless we get hit with a ton of injuries, I'll be very disappointed if we only win 19-20 games with this team.

We're so much better that a guy who started 31 games that year (Salecich) transferred because he knew he wasn't going to play. The guy who played the most minutes that year (Cassity) won't play nearly that many this year when he's a senior. The guy who turned the season around (Ellis) may not start this year. Yeah, it's safe to say we're much better. I think the 2011-12 team beats the 2009-10 team by 15 points easily.

[MB73]

I cannot let this go without a response. This post is ridiculous. We're going to win 19-20 games unless a miracle occurs? Give me a break. We won 23 games two years ago. Let's compare rosters:

1 - Mitchell/Jett vs. Mitchell/Jordan (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

2 - McCall/Cassity vs. Salecich (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

3 - Evans/Barnett vs. Cassity (Big advantage to the 2011-12 team)

4 - Ellis/Glaze/Conklin vs. Ellis/Conklin (Advantage to the 2011-12 team)

5 - Loe/Manning/Remekun vs. Reed/Smith/Remekun (Big advantage to the 2009-10 team)

In my opinion at three positions we are much better. At one position we're better. At one position we're much worse. And that doesn't even take into account that we'll have 12 guys who can compete in practice. In 2010-11 our 10th man after Christmas was Darrin Young. Depth was not a strong suit of that team.

The schedule will be tougher, but unless we get hit with a ton of injuries, I'll be very disappointed if we only win 19-20 games with this team.

We're so much better that a guy who started 31 games that year (Salecich) transferred because he knew he wasn't going to play. The guy who played the most minutes that year (Cassity) won't play nearly that many this year when he's a senior. The guy who turned the season around (Ellis) may not start this year. Yeah, it's safe to say we're much better. I think the 2011-12 team beats the 2009-10 team by 15 points easily.

Our schedule is not complete, I did not go game by game, it's still too early to call, but I will still say 19-20 wins is about it. We won 11 last yr, correct?

I might change a bit as we get closer, but what, are you saying we're going to win 26? NCAA's?

[Billsrmajic]

Our schedule is not complete, I did not go game by game, it's still too early to call, but I will still say 19-20 wins is about it. We won 11 last yr, correct?

I might change a bit as we get closer, but what, are you saying we're going to win 25-26? NCAA's?

I think next March we'll definitely be in the discussion (as we were a little bit in 09-10 with a much weaker squad). The Tournament is in play next year.

[brianstl]

Don't know a win total, but this team should finish first or second in the conference. The conference schedule sets up perfectly for it. If they win or finish second they will make the tournament.

I think you are underestimating Kwamain's importance to the team and over estimating Willie's.

[kmbilliken]

Our chaplain, Fr. What's his name, is 90 years old. Time for an upgrade, Society of Jesus. Let's get a young, basketball-crazy Jesuit in their as our chaplain. Maybe his influence will deter future Grand Forest Train Rides from happening?? Our student body can't do it alone. We need people fired up all the time. Our energy will transfer over to the court and will pump our

Get rid of the old priest?GTFO. I knew there was a reason we weren't winning. Our chaplain has lost his mojo. He can't take it hard to the alter any more. The Blue Devils aren't afraid of us anymore, let alone the Blue Demons. Bring in some young fire breather who can do back flips off the alter to lead us to the promised land.

Metz, I hope you never get old. Leave the priest alone. It's not his fault we lose, anymore than it's because of your cheering when we win.

[drkelsey55]

Our schedule is not complete, I did not go game by game, it's still too early to call, but I will still say 19-20 wins is about it. We won 11 last yr, correct?

I might change a bit as we get closer, but what, are you saying we're going to win 26? NCAA's?

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES......CAN YOU HEAR ME????? i SCREAM AT THE GAMES TOO!!!!!

[For-DaLove]

You do not KNOW that. 1/2 yr? Nobody knows.

I know it. You don't have to believe it, but WR was ineligible already.

[MB73]

Don't know a win total, but this team should finish first or second in the conference. The conference schedule sets up perfectly for it. If they win or finish second they will make the tournament.

I think you are underestimating Kwamain's importance to the team and over estimating Willie's.

Hey, I hope you are right, but 1st or 2nd in the A-10?

And I say WR was much more important than KM, especially at a mid major like SLU: a real, a real-live BIG, multi tool, opponents feared his "D". I know you always say he did not have good one on one skills, I think he did well vs. NBA bound Sanders (VCU), and he was always paying attention to the other opponents, lurking, threatening the block, so I will not zap him on that like you do.

We were able to plug-in last yr (McCall, Jett, Cassity) for the loss of KM much, much better than we were able to overcome the loss of Reed.

[waldo027]

Don't know a win total, but this team should finish first or second in the conference. The conference schedule sets up perfectly for it. If they win or finish second they will make the tournament.

I think you are underestimating Kwamain's importance to the team and over estimating Willie's.

The conference schedule is very favorable. We should be favored in every game except 2 or 3 (at Xavier, at St. Joes and maybe at Dayton/at Duquesne).

[For-DaLove]

Unfortunately, the economic situation in St. Louis back in the summer of '09 (lost my job with a mid-sized marketing agency) was the cause for me having to uproot in search of greener pastures down here in Texas. But you can bet your ass I'll be back in the Lou. Most of my family lives in the midwest and it's been a good ride down here, but if and when there's an opportunity for me back in St. Louis, I'll be in 108 with Backhand cheering on the boys. Didn't mean to sound hypocritical, but I was talking about my experiences as a fan (from 01-present day). Sorry for not clarifying. I think it's great that some can give, but I give by being vocal and showing my support via being a (sometimes obnoxious) fan of the program. If we don't cheer, what motivation does the team have to play hard and win games and get to the NCAA tournament (where more revenue for the program awaits via national exposure)? Mother Theresa didn't have any money but she loved the hell out of those damn kids in Calcutta and through her compassion, other people gave money to the Sisters of Charity. Those who can't give money can express their desire for doing all they can through other means.

Hypocritical was probably a bad word choice, because I don't mean to question your fan-hood. Obviously you are a die hard bills fan, I don't think anyone can question that.

And I understand your thing about some giving money and some giving passion. I just don't think its right to get mad at those who don't cheer as loud as you or I, because they play a different, vital role in our program. Also, some of the older people aren't physically able to act as crazy as others.

[NH]

With no seasons looming in perhaps both the NBA and NFL, if the Billikens come out strong we could see a large fan base develop quickly to fill the sports void.

[For-DaLove]

With no seasons looming in perhaps both the NBA and NFL, if the Billikens come out strong we could see a large fan base develop quickly to fill the sports void.

+1.

College sports could really benefit during the lockouts.

[JettFlight5]

This is the first post where I haven't been the biggest a-hole for my mentality of win above all. Thank god for progress.

[moytoy12]

SO 2011-2012, we'll win 19-20 games, but not make the NIT, unless there is a HUGE miracle development, someone like RL a la the improvement of WR from freshman to soph yr, plus unexpected incredible "D" from Manning, .

The statement above is essentially what you stated 3-4 months ago. Then recently you said:

WR was a death blow to our NCAA hopes IMO, but if [Glaze and Manning] can be effective inside players, we are back to having a chance, though realistically you have to handicap us as NIT bound even if things go fairly well.

Now you're back to "it will take a miracle to get to the NIT".

Plain and simple, barring major injuries, we'll be in the NCAA tourney.

Then what? Will RM stick with it? Will he even coach this yr (probably). Will KM play this yr (probably).

Glad to see you've moved off of "maybe or maybe not". The only thing that keeps RM from coaching this year is health. KM is playing barring injury.

[Clock_Tower]

The statement above is essentially what you stated 3-4 months ago. Then recently you said:

Now you're back to "it will take a miracle to get to the NIT".

Plain and simple, barring major injuries, we'll be in the NCAA tourney.

Glad to see you've moved off of "maybe or maybe not". The only thing that keeps RM from coaching this year is health. KM is playing barring injury.

A few comments from a middle-aged fan (early 40's):

1. Excellent post Cheese. Agree with everything.

2. Metz, the reason people notice all the old people is b/c of the lack of younger people. We don't have a "too many old people" fanbase but a "not enough people/young people" fanbase. Funny how the youngsters always want to start a age warfare against the older crowd who are guilty only of donating, buying tickets, showing up to games and using their seats. Metz, why dooes the under age 50 crowd not come to enough games?

3. KM and the Bills will be Top 4 in the A10 and either NCAA or Top seed in the NIT. Good things will happen this year.

4. MB73. Sorry you're not a Billiken fan. Go back to your beloved MVC.

5. Fraternities at SLU are good for only 2 to 3 games per year. Ask Spoon how that solution failed.

6. SLU students used to number less than 30 per game and now they deserve center seats?? Get real.

7. Biondi and SLU deserve blame for the Situation which did set the program way back -- loss of KM was huge.

8. Brian is right. WR would never have made grades or played last year despite the Situation.

9. Two years from now, this Board will be full of people b%tching that they cannot get a seat....

10. Billikens and RM will have a break-out year -- this year -- finally. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[MB73]

The statement above is essentially what you stated 3-4 months ago. Then recently you said:

Now you're back to "it will take a miracle to get to the NIT".

Plain and simple, barring major injuries, we'll be in the NCAA tourney.

Glad to see you've moved off of "maybe or maybe not". The only thing that keeps RM from coaching this year is health. KM is playing barring injury.

You still cannot read. All these yrs.

Reed was 6'10", a long, leaping, 7 foot wing span, legit shot blocking FORCE inside; he helped on "D", they did not want to drive to the hoop knowing he was waiting.... he was also a "D" and "O" rebounder, could post up, had several moves on "O", not just looking for garbage baskets. "Get the ball into Willie". He will be in the NBA, 5-6 yrs, if he can get his sh*t together.

Last yr, we had nothing like that. Not even close.

This yr, KM is back, good, but coming off an 11 win season, we have a LOT of "IF'S, we will win about 19-20 games, border line NIT, probably not make it, unless there are a few surprises.

We had a dramatic suprise like I cite, WR's soph yr, he was 1000% better than his freshman yr. Thats what we need. Will it be there?

I over reacted a bit, I liked the Glaze signing, but we do not really know how he will play as a freshman. Will he be a force inside? Will there be posts, "uh, is Glaze really 6'6"? I saw him standing next to Cassity...".

BUT maybe he will be a force.

MAYBE Manning will somehow be somewhat effective in protecting the paint on "D", but he is listed at 200 lbs, I do not think he is a leaper, so, not too optimistic for his freshman yr. Are you?

OR RL, maybe he will become fierce inside, become a force on "D", that's what we need. Do you think it will happen?

We will need a big surprise, I would say two bigs will need to make a huge impact, unexpectedly.

Maybe CE gets aggressive, with a motor like Matt Howard, rebounding, fighting down low? Do you think so?

KM is quality, and we have some decent guards. Is Barnett as good as you all dream? Let's face it, it has been dreaming, we've not seen him play, though RM is high on him, that is a good sign.

But, as I have always said, for us it is all about the BIGS.

SO I stand by what I say, not by the twisted out of context nonsense you skew.

(and seriously, I was told RM was not coming back, at this point it sure seems that he is... and KM is in line to come back, but watch out for the SLU liberal do gooders, they are still on the prowl, remember we didn't know squat about anything until all the season ticket sales were in house last yr, right before practice started)

[moytoy12]

You still cannot read. All these yrs.

In one post you say it will take a huge miracle to make the NIT. Not just any miracle, but a huge one.

In a recent post you said that if we do fairly well we should be handicapped for the NIT.

What did I misread?

Reed was 6'10", a long, leaping, 7 foot wing span, legit shot blocking FORCE inside; he helped on "D", they did not want to drive to the hoop knowing he was waiting.... he was also a "D" and "O" rebounder, could post up, had several moves on "O", not just looking for garbage baskets. "Get the ball into Willie". He will be in the NBA, 5-6 yrs.

For all of his amazing attributes, WR did not get drafted. He was really good, he wasn't a god.

This yr, KM is back, good, but coming off an 11 win season, we have a LOT of "IF'S, we will win about 19-20 games, border line NIT, probably not make it, unless there are a few surprises.

We had a dramatic suprise like I cite, WR's soph yr, he was 1000% better than his freshman yr. Thats what we need. Will it be there?

I over reacted a bit, I liked the Glaze signing, but we do not really know how he will play as a freshman. Will he be a force inside? Will there be posts, "uh, is Glaze really 6'6"? I saw him standing next to Cassity...".

BUT maybe he will be a force.

MAYBE Manning will somehow be CLOSE to force at least on "D", but he is listed at 200 lbs, so, not too optimistic.

OR RL, maybe he will become fierce inside, become a force on "D", that's what we need. Did he hit the weights?

We will need a big surprise, I would say two bigs will need to make a huge impact, unexpectedly. CE gets agressive, motor like Matt Howard down low?

KM is quality, and we have some decent guards. Is Barnett as good as you all dream? Let's face it, it has been dreaming, we've not seen him play, though RM is high on him, that is a good sign.

But, as I have always said, for us it is all about the BIGS.

I'm not even going to try and make sense of this.

SO I stand by what I say, not by the twisted out of context nonsense you skew.

Huh? What was out of context? Did you overreact or did I "skew" some twisted out of context nonsense?

[For-DaLove]

We're going to suck and Duke will be awesome. That should sum up most of MB's posts.

[MB73]

We're going to suck and Duke will be awesome. That should sum up most of MB's posts.

Childish.

I thought you had a little class.

[For-DaLove]

Childish.

I thought you had a little class.

Just a little, not very much though.

At least we know the Duke part is always true.

[MB73]

In one post you say it will take a huge miracle to make the NIT. Not just any miracle, but a huge one.

In a recent post you said that if we do fairly well we should be handicapped for the NIT.

What did I misread?

For all of his amazing attributes, WR did not get drafted. He was really good, he wasn't a god.

I'm not even going to try and make sense of this.

Huh? What was out of context? Did you overreact or did I "skew" some twisted out of context nonsense?

Psycho boy moy toy: though I still like the signing, I bought in too much with the Glaze signing, 6'6" 235, but now understand and have heard that he might not be a real factor his freshman yr. Who has been signifcant around here as a freshman, not many, it is rare.

And now they list Manning at 200 lbs on the Billiken roster.

So it seems we are still not strong enough up front to get to the NCAA's or probably even the NIT. We need one, probably two, big surprises, kids that make a giant leap. The best possibility, to me, is RL becomes a terror inside. Sometimes these things DO happen.

If not, I am not so sure we are going to get past 19-20 wins.

Are you?

[MB73]

Just a little, not very much though.

At least we know the Duke part is always true.

Hey, last yr I was dying when our two stars were yanked off the team. I do not like how SLU administration handled it for many, many reasons.

As to Duke, you brought it up, I thought you had more maturity than moytoy, always crying about something.

I cite Duke as the #1 program that we would have wanted our team to be the last 20 yrs: players, coaches, championships, academics, lack of scandals, combined.

Yes, they had some minor scandals, so do not cite some little tidbits. I am saying, combined, all those things...

What program would you have rather had, last 20 yrs, using that basic criteria. Answer the question.

[AnkielBreakers]

Excellent post.

Last yr was "it", our chance to make a splash, but the incident killed it. Like deflecting the asteroid headed for Earth. One chance.

I cannot see us recovering.

We would have gone to NCAA's, WR would have still left coming into this yr, but we would have huge momentum and probably some better recruits. BIGS.

SO 2011-2012, we'll win 19-20 games, but not make the NIT, unless there is a HUGE miracle development, someone like RL a la the improvement of WR from freshman to soph yr, plus unexpected incredible "D" from Manning, .

Then what? Will RM stick with it? Will he even coach this yr (probably). Will KM play this yr (probably).

SO I am not renewing my season tickets.

I have been one on and off for 30 yrs, came back "in" when RM appeared.

Not pleased with what happened, the "incident", Biondi buried the two kids, big donor's friend involved, SLU allowed a paid lawyer in student court, we all know the story.

My first posts on this forum, 5 yrs ago or so, I stated that we could never compete, that we could never get kids (I specified power forward types... I think I was called a racist by that idiot Courtside) that could put us into the next level. We have no "Biology for non-science majors" like Missouri University has.

I thought, perhaps, RM could get us there, though.

WR was THE difference maker, and he did not last at SLU. Yes, some was his fault, but I blame Biondi, too.

SO I wish them well, I will still go to a few games, sponge off friends with tickets, or walk up, buy a cheapie, and sit in an empty seat at mid court.

Maybe there will be a miracle or two, maybe Barnett will be the next Jimmer, maybe RL will be a beast in the paint, opponents will fear taking it to our hoop, maybe CE will play underneath like Matt Howard and also shoot like we have all hoped.

I am thinking of a last, EVER, MB73 post, after which I will delete membership here, I will not respond to the wisecracks that follow.

Some of you will welcome that, I am sure.

My final statements, platform, on all issues (yes, HE is 34 1/2; yes, we shoulda been in the MVC, or Horizon, but not the f*cking A-10; we cannot get a 4*-5* from anywhere, why TF are so many of you obsessed with local 4*-5* that leave?... all of the favorites!).

Good luck to the Billikens.

I actually liked this post. At least it is honest about being mad, and you are right about SLU (Biondi or the athletics department, the WR situation is a giant mess and someone's head should roll because of it) and how difficult it is to recruit bigs at a mid-major. However, I have some points of contention.

We will be a lot better than last year, and I truly believe we will be better than 2009/10. Everyone forgets that we were expected to be really bad in 09/10; we had a bunch of young players, with little or no leadership, and then all of a sudden we were magic. You are right, WR played biggest part of it, and his loss is a big one. You have to realize though, WR made a weak team look great in 09/10. He essentially dominated the paint, and showed that he was head and shoulders better than almost everyone he faced. But, now we are not a weak team, we have a lot of depth, and support at all skill positions. We also have experienced big men to throw into the fray, even if they are not WR. They will be able to match-up against other teams and at least play to a draw. Also, it is reasonable to expect at least one of RL, CE, or CR to make huge strides in the off-season; all have the talent to play at a much higher level.

I actually ran some numbers on this a while back, and was surprised, we held teams to about the same points last year as in 09/10, but we scored a few points less. Next year we will score a lot more, with about the same defense. It will be a noticeable difference.

I agree about the MVC. I have talked with dozens of SLU fans, and almost a hundred uninterested St. Louisans about SLU and the A10, and all seem to say the same thing: "Why is SLU in the A10" and "I don't care about the A10." The only people who really support the A10 are on this board. Everyone builds up the ability of the A10 to place us in the tournament, but this is fools gold (We only make it 2/10 years if we are lucky). We lose out on having real, honest to god, rivalries; and we lose out on having a fan base that actually cares about the conference games. I think Majerus is wiser than anyone realizes on this account. Think about it, we may never succeed in the A10, but we could be a perennial powerhouse in the MVC because of our location in a major city in the heart of the conference. (Here is a good analogy, would it benefit Butler to move to the A10?). The only logical explanation for the A10 is for academic reasons or for soccer, and I wonder if the benefits exceed the loses.

If Spoon can pull one of the top players in the country, then Majerus can bring in 4*-5* players, we just need to win and get some momentum.

[For-DaLove]

Hey, last yr I was dying when our two stars were yanked off the team. I do not like how SLU administration handled it for many, many reasons.

As to Duke, you brought it up, I thought you had more maturity than moytoy, always crying about something.

I cite Duke as the #1 program that we would have wanted our team to be the last 20 yrs: players, coaches, championships, academics, lack of scandals, combined.

Yes, they had some minor scandals, so do not cite some little tidbits. I am saying, combined, all those things...

What program would you have rather had, last 20 yrs, using that basic criteria. Answer the question.

Lol. I agree with you on Duke. Even though Ive always liked NC better, Duke is THE program.

I would do many things to have SLU be Duke.

[MB73]

I actually liked this post. At least it is honest about being mad, and you are right about SLU (Biondi or the athletics department, the WR situation is a giant mess and someone's head should roll because of it) and how difficult it is to recruit bigs at a mid-major. However, I have some points of contention.

We will be a lot better than last year, and I truly believe we will be better than 2009/10. Everyone forgets that we were expected to be really bad in 09/10; we had a bunch of young players, with little or no leadership, and then all of a sudden we were magic. You are right, WR played biggest part of it, and his loss is a big one. You have to realize though, WR made a weak team look great in 09/10. He essentially dominated the paint, and showed that he was head and shoulders better than almost everyone he faced. But, now we are not a weak team, we have a lot of depth, and support at all skill positions. We also have experienced big men to throw into the fray, even if they are not WR. They will be able to match-up against other teams and at least play to a draw. Also, it is reasonable to expect at least one of RL, CE, or CR to make huge strides in the off-season; all have the talent to play at a much higher level.

I actually ran some numbers on this a while back, and was surprised, we held teams to about the same points last year as in 09/10, but we scored a few points less. Next year we will score a lot more, with about the same defense. It will be a noticeable difference.

I agree about the MVC. I have talked with dozens of SLU fans, and almost a hundred uninterested St. Louisans about SLU and the A10, and all seem to say the same thing: "Why is SLU in the A10" and "I don't care about the A10." The only people who really support the A10 are on this board. Everyone builds up the ability of the A10 to place us in the tournament, but this is fools gold (We only make it 2/10 years if we are lucky). We lose out on having real, honest to god, rivalries; and we lose out on having a fan base that actually cares about the conference games. I think Majerus is wiser than anyone realizes on this account. Think about it, we may never succeed in the A10, but we could be a perennial powerhouse in the MVC because of our location in a major city in the heart of the conference. (Here is a good analogy, would it benefit Butler to move to the A10?). The only logical explanation for the A10 is for academic reasons or for soccer, and I wonder if the benefits exceed the loses.

If Spoon can pull one of the top players in the country, then Majerus can bring in 4*-5* players, we just need to win and get some momentum.

Good post.

Good point, and I agree that we do have some good DEPTH up front, a lot of fouls to give, too, if we play it right, that could be a big plus.

BUT I am not so sure we will be better than '09-'10, so I still predict likely 19-20 wins. You can bicker about if you get into the CBI, and those wins, what do they mean?

For the record (MB73 bashers), I have not gone to ONE godd*m MVC Tourney game here... the hell with them.

I just understand all of the dynamics and know that is the conference we should have joined 7 yrs ago; or maybe the Horizon.

The A-10 is a disaster for us, I do not want to go over it again. 20 reasons, including Biondi nonsense.

We got Larry Hughes because he wanted to stay close to his terminally ill brother... it was not a 5* recruiting coup by Spoon.

I am disapointed by the fact that RM has not landed a 5* by now... with his reputation, I thought he would. I think if last yr had gone as planned, that would have paved the way for RM to land a 4* - 5* or two.