Bay Area Billiken Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Maybe Butler has cracked the code, has the formula- get in a mid-major league, be patient and let all the good teams and bigger schools leave the league, dominate what's left and the replacement wannabes, make routine visits to the NCAA Tournament, and then win when you get there. In saying this, I'm not detracting from what Butler has done, which is nothing short of amazing, if not seemingly impossible for a mid-major non-BCS school, and a small one at that. Remember, Xavier was once the bellweather in the MCC (now Horizon League). Under Rich Grawer, in the mid to later years of SLU's MCC membership, SLU was sometimes #2 in the MCC. Loyola had its moments, along with Evansville. The only one left on that list that is still in the Horizon is Loyola. And Butler, once a bottom feeder, middle of the pack team in its best years, is in the Final 4 for the second straight year. Gonzaga has followed a similar formula in the WCC, except Gonzaga has had more talent than Butler overall over the years. And BYU joins the WCC next season to challenge the Zags. For the record, the all time series record is SLU 16 wins, Butler 11 wins. Butler's play has to give hope to us all. But Butler does this from an easier league, one that SLU left to swim at the time with bigger fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 that's some real wishful thinking. the comparison to conklin is probably more fair than cody, who is basically an over-sized three. howard is a true power forward. he is a banger. we do not have one. and to hope that cody will be one is like hoping that salecich becomes jimmer fredette next year. Cody Ellis had more of an outside game as a freshman than Howard did averaged 0.5 less rebounds. Cody isn't the banger that Howard is now, but he might have a chance to develop it. Without Willie the role we want Cody to fill looks likes it might change again. It might be in the teams best interest for Cody to pack on some more pounds instead of trying to become three. I think it might actually be easier for Cody just to develop as a four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Not based on what i have seen this game, but admittedly, i haven't watched Butler enough. Gotta give the refs credit for not swallowing the whistle and calling fouls against Florida. Offense alone... This is the third straight season Howard has attempted more than 200 FT's in a season at Butler. This is 2-3 times more than Conklin in a season. Howard also had over 100 3 point attempts this year. I believe Conklin has one for his career, or so. Howard is much longer than Conklin, rebounds better, shoots better, etc...a very savvy player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Derrick Williams from AZ? He chose USC over Nevada and San Diego. After Tim Floyd was out and before Kevin O'Neill came in...those handful of guys went to AZ because Sean Miller hustled when hired. Williams was signed sight unseen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 The difference between Cody Ellis and Matt Howard is the support staff. Howard is surrounded by winners. Ellis is surrounded by Kyle Cassity and CS. Not exactly Mack and Nored. Can't argue that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Offense alone... This is the third straight season Howard has attempted more than 200 FT's in a season at Butler. This is 2-3 times more than Conklin in a season. Howard also had over 100 3 point attempts this year. I believe Conklin has one for his career, or so. Howard is much longer than Conklin, rebounds better, shoots better, etc...a very savvy player. He's got the green light anywhere on the court. I love watching Howard play. He's a phenomenal athlete who works hard and flat out wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I hope those folks that don't think we can make the NCAA's are watching this Butler-Florida game. Howard is good, but I don't think he is light years ahead of Conk. Otherwise, I think we will be equal to, if not better at every other position that Butler currently has out there on the court. You think Conklin is close to being as good as Matt Howard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Maybe Butler has cracked the code, has the formula- get in a mid-major league, be patient and let all the good teams and bigger schools leave the league, dominate what's left and the replacement wannabes, make routine visits to the NCAA Tournament, and then win when you get there. In saying this, I'm not detracting from what Butler has done, which is nothing short of amazing, if not seemingly impossible for a mid-major non-BCS school, and a small one at that. Remember, Xavier was once the bellweather in the MCC (now Horizon League). Under Rich Grawer, in the mid to later years of SLU's MCC membership, SLU was sometimes #2 in the MCC. Loyola had its moments, along with Evansville. The only one left on that list that is still in the Horizon is Loyola. And Butler, once a bottom feeder, middle of the pack team in its best years, is in the Final 4 for the second straight year. Gonzaga has followed a similar formula in the WCC, except Gonzaga has had more talent than Butler overall over the years. And BYU joins the WCC next season to challenge the Zags. For the record, the all time series record is SLU 16 wins, Butler 11 wins. Butler's play has to give hope to us all. But Butler does this from an easier league, one that SLU left to swim at the time with bigger fish. Exactly. One of the many reasons we should have gone MVC 8 yrs ago. Majerus agrees. And we still have some loons on this board that think it would be good for us to get into the Big East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Maybe Butler has cracked the code, has the formula- get in a mid-major league, be patient and let all the good teams and bigger schools leave the league, dominate what's left and the replacement wannabes, make routine visits to the NCAA Tournament, and then win when you get there. In saying this, I'm not detracting from what Butler has done, which is nothing short of amazing, if not seemingly impossible for a mid-major non-BCS school, and a small one at that. Remember, Xavier was once the bellweather in the MCC (now Horizon League). Under Rich Grawer, in the mid to later years of SLU's MCC membership, SLU was sometimes #2 in the MCC. Loyola had its moments, along with Evansville. The only one left on that list that is still in the Horizon is Loyola. And Butler, once a bottom feeder, middle of the pack team in its best years, is in the Final 4 for the second straight year. Gonzaga has followed a similar formula in the WCC, except Gonzaga has had more talent than Butler overall over the years. And BYU joins the WCC next season to challenge the Zags. For the record, the all time series record is SLU 16 wins, Butler 11 wins. Butler's play has to give hope to us all. But Butler does this from an easier league, one that SLU left to swim at the time with bigger fish. ...Or you could be the 9th place Big East team making the Final Four (Connecticut). If what you are saying were that easy, many teams would be doing it. It's taken a lot for Butler to get where it is and it'll take a lot for them to stay there long term. Good for them. Since 2003 the Big East has had by far the most Final Four teams in the NCAA. There's always a variety of ways to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 You think Conklin is close to being as good as Matt Howard?Yes, that's exactly what I said. I still see reading comprehension isn't your friend. No, I don't think it's close overall, but I also don't think the difference is as great as many think. I think Conklin would do a very effective job guarding howard. The difference is, and others have pointed out, Conklin doesn't have as broad an offensive arsenal as Howard. I think in terms of rebounding, defense, hustle, they are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 The difference between Cody Ellis and Matt Howard is the support staff. Howard is surrounded by winners. Ellis is surrounded by Kyle Cassity and CS. Not exactly Mack and Nored. Can't argue that. Who will he be surrounded by next season? But hey, don't let that get in the way of you taking another shot at either KC or CS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yes, that's exactly what I said. I still see reading comprehension isn't your friend. No, I don't think it's close overall, but I also don't think the difference is as great as many think. I think Conklin would do a very effective job guarding howard. The difference is, and others have pointed out, Conklin doesn't have as broad an offensive arsenal as Howard. I think in terms of rebounding, defense, hustle, they are close. Reading comprenshion shot = you are wrong, so insert a "ridicule" tactic to distract from your misstatements. We all hope you are right, but you said in a back asswards way that Conklin is close to being as good as Matt Howard, and that our returning team's supporting cast next year is equal to if not better than the rest of Butler's cast (Mack, Vanzandt, Smith, Marshall, etc)... I would say that you are way out on a limb. We were 11-19, 6-11 in mid major A-10. They are in The Goddam Final 4. I hope you are right, but... moytoy12, on 26 March 2011 - 05:31 PM, said: I hope those folks that don't think we can make the NCAA's are watching this Butler-Florida game. Howard is good, but I don't think he is light years ahead of Conk. Otherwise, I think we will be equal to, if not better at every other position that Butler currently has out there on the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Reading comprenshion shot = you are wrong, so insert a "ridicule" tactic to distract from your misstatements. We all hope you are right, but you said in a back asswards way that Conklin is close to being as good as Matt Howard, and that our returning team's supporting cast next year is equal to if not better than the rest of Butler's cast (Mack, Vanzandt, Smith, Marshall, etc)... I would say that you are way out on a limb. We were 11-19, 6-11 in mid major A-10. They are in The Goddam Final 4. I hope you are right, but... I said Howard was not light years ahead of Conklin, apparently you want to assume that I meant they were close in ability as players. It was pretty clear, but you failed to understand it. I clarified my intent in my response Moving on, I think we will have a team that could hang with, and maybe beat, a final four team. I realize that just because we might match up with butler it doesnt mean we would make the NCAA. However, based on what i saw, we should be excited about our chances next year regardless of willie's status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ky by 1 over NC Kan by 13 over VCU A lot of time is being spent discussing Butler. Butler is a pretty good team...not a great team but a pretty good team. If they were in the A-10 they would win the conference title and would be dancin'. The bigger surprise to me is VCU. Here is a team that has made it to the final 6 and is just above average. If they were in the A-10 , VCU would finish 5th and would not receive a bid to the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ky by 1 over NC Kan by 13 over VCU A lot of time is being spent discussing Butler. Butler is a pretty good team...not a great team but a pretty good team. If they were in the A-10 they would win the conference title and would be dancin'. The bigger surprise to me is VCU. Here is a team that has made it to the final 6 and is just above average. If they were in the A-10 , VCU would finish 5th and would not receive a bid to the NCAA. VCU may have underachieved all year, but you can't do what they've done in the tourney and be average. They've blown teams out. Butlers game have been close. Good teams do win close games, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Wow, this Skeen kid is something. Great player. And he's going to end up playing about 80 minutes in the last 2 games combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I thnk steve kerr is going to cry he's so upset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Wow, this Skeen kid is something. Great player. And he's going to end up playing about 80 minutes in the last 2 games combined. Mid major power baby! Guaranteed a spot in the championship game. In the improbable category I'm not sure if a small school from Indiana going back to back Final Fours or VCU winning 5 games after all the ESPN experts screamed and hollored about how they had no business in the dance. Probably give the nod to Butler but either story is great. Take that Bilas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 A major upset by VCU. Their next game against Butler should be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe UK will make it through the week before Coach Cal has to vacate this Final Four appearance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I just think it is awesome that we will see a mid-major in the final game for the 2nd straight year no matter what! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Inside this room, all of my dreams become realities, and some of my realities become dreams. And, almost everything you'll see is eatable, edible, I mean, you can eat almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 on one side of the final four, two mid majors with two relatively young coaches with no baggage scars. on the other side, two of the reputed biggest cheating coaches in college basketball. almost like watching "star wars" for the first time. help us obi wan shaka. you are our only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 on one side of the final four, two mid majors with two relatively young coaches with no baggage scars. on the other side, two of the reputed biggest cheating coaches in college basketball. almost like watching "star wars" for the first time. help us obi wan shaka. you are our only hope. You have to be excited about coach cal's first official trip to the final four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 on one side of the final four, two mid majors with two relatively young coaches with no baggage scars. on the other side, two of the reputed biggest cheating coaches in college basketball. almost like watching "star wars" for the first time. help us obi wan shaka. you are our only hope. Well done, Roy. But you could at least congratulate Coach Cal on his latest soon-to-be vacated banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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