Is it time declare we are cursed?

[slu72]

Wow, the events of the last 2-3 weeks have been somewhat unreal. From solid under the radar threats to back to quite possibly one of the youngest teams in America again. I'm trying to think of what the curse might be. We never had a Babe Ruth type deal. Anyone ever bring a Goat to the game and was kicked out? What is the curse and how do we reverse it?

[WVBilliken]

I've been a SLU fan since the 1970's. I am about ready to give up on the program. We were just about ready to bust out on the national scene and now this.

[JettFlight5]

I think we are severely cursed. I hate to make excuses, but what else can we do? Best team we've had in awhile undercut by the administration.

[Box and Won]

At the next Old Boys Club meeting, we'll burn some sage to release the negative energy that has engulfed our basketball program.

[dlarry]

At the next Old Boys Club meeting, we'll burn some sage to release the negative energy that has engulfed our basketball program.

I think Ill be burning something besides sage it may not reverse the curse but it sure will make me feel a little better

[billiken_roy]

I think we are severely cursed. I hate to make excuses, but what else can we do? Best team we've had in awhile undercut by the administration.

i dont mean to come down on you busted as you are far from the only one on this message board expressing this opinion of sorts but something just snapped after reading your above message. not that it was any worse or even close to the most disappointing view of this whole thing there have been many more over the last few weeks and in particular 24 hours. i cant even begin to describe how disappointed i am with the general tone of this board concerning this. maybe i am too old fashioned and conservative, but the level of casualness about the whole affair astounds me.

i think the board in general is way off on this. yes the leaked proceeds of the student code court doesnt appear was fair, but slu and that court didnt cause that fateful night to happen. the only ones to blame for what happened and the set back our program is about to take is the four billikens that were in that room that night.

regardless of what actually happened they used EXTREMELY bad judgement and there is no doubt in my mind that something bad indeed happened. i dont care about he said she said, i dont care about consent or not, i dont care about the declining sexual morals of today's youth, saint louis university is still a jesuit university and events of this degree shouldnt be happening, especially to our basketball players.

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

and let's not forget, while so many have insinuated blame and disgust at the girl, her life is ruined. she is gone from slu. her family and friends will forever look at her and think about "that night". casual acquaintences will blame her. hell she might as well go into witness protection.

and for those of you putting all your eggs into the credibility of willie reed sr's tirades and leaks of information to multiple media sources and perfectly playing the grapevine. please keep in mind this is the same man that put his emerging high school senior in a sham of a high school run by a basketball street agent in his son's senior year.

this is the same man that likely has been negotiating with frank martin the protege of bob huggins prior to getting his son's release and knowing he probably needed some leverage to get that release. i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

my gosh, let's be saint louis university alums, parents and students first. billiken fans second. get your priorities straight. they should go hand in hand. all i know is that father biondi, chris may and rick majerus are not stupid. if anyone thinks they f'd this up, they are wrong. the truth is probably closer to this was a lose lose situation from the get go and after very painful deliberations and meetings they did what they could to protect the university reputation and the safety and security of our students now and in the future by sending the correct message. put me in the corner of this probably wasnt severe enough.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

[Taj79]

given my sources on this ordeal, I am backing roy's sentiments as well.

Live in the public eye; die in the public eye. With priviledge comes responsibility. Jail Plaxico --- not free Plaxico.

I don't like all the guff that's out there and justice should rule in society at large. Saint Louis University is NOT society at large, it is an entity unto itself.

The team will suffer however given the talen tpool now on campus, not as much as with some other Billiken editions. We shall survive.

[dlarry]

i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

Hey Broy if you are going to throw chaifetz onto harris stowe I ask that you do not do it on a Tuesday or Thursday between 9-4.

Im in class over there at that time and would prefer not getting crushed by an arena while looking out the window daydreaming.

Thanks in advance

Dlarry

[saluki762]

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the last sentence. We may not have seen the end of this according to the courts.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/article_ac3cea15-8003-56e7-8035-d8ca93d41160.html

Ed Postawko, the chief warrants officer for the circuit attorney's office, said Tuesday that while no charges have been filed, the office's sex crimes unit was still reviewing the case and that it has been classified as "taken under advisement."

"Because of the serious nature of charges like this, we like to be thorough and not rush anything," Postawko said.

David Korum, an attorney for the woman who reported the assault, said in May that the student and her family were disappointed that no charges had been filed. He said that the woman would continue to provide information to police and push for action by the university against her alleged attackers.

[billiken89]

no its not time to declare that! we are not the chicago cubs, we dont blame things on curses. this season hasn't even officially started. if all of the guys on the team are still remaining extremely optimistic about the season, we can too. i think a lot of you will be surprised at how well this season turns out for us

[JettFlight5]

i dont mean to come down on you busted as you are far from the only one on this message board expressing this opinion of sorts but something just snapped after reading your above message. not that it was any worse or even close to the most disappointing view of this whole thing there have been many more over the last few weeks and in particular 24 hours. i cant even begin to describe how disappointed i am with the general tone of this board concerning this. maybe i am too old fashioned and conservative, but the level of casualness about the whole affair astounds me.

i think the board in general is way off on this. yes the leaked proceeds of the student code court doesnt appear was fair, but slu and that court didnt cause that fateful night to happen. the only ones to blame for what happened and the set back our program is about to take is the four billikens that were in that room that night.

regardless of what actually happened they used EXTREMELY bad judgement and there is no doubt in my mind that something bad indeed happened. i dont care about he said she said, i dont care about consent or not, i dont care about the declining sexual morals of today's youth, saint louis university is still a jesuit university and events of this degree shouldnt be happening, especially to our basketball players.

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

and let's not forget, while so many have insinuated blame and disgust at the girl, her life is ruined. she is gone from slu. her family and friends will forever look at her and think about "that night". casual acquaintences will blame her. hell she might as well go into witness protection.

and for those of you putting all your eggs into the credibility of willie reed sr's tirades and leaks of information to multiple media sources and perfectly playing the grapevine. please keep in mind this is the same man that put his emerging high school senior in a sham of a high school run by a basketball street agent in his son's senior year.

this is the same man that likely has been negotiating with frank martin the protege of bob huggins prior to getting his son's release and knowing he probably needed some leverage to get that release. i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

my gosh, let's be saint louis university alums, parents and students first. billiken fans second. get your priorities straight. they should go hand in hand. all i know is that father biondi, chris may and rick majerus are not stupid. if anyone thinks they f'd this up, they are wrong. the truth is probably closer to this was a lose lose situation from the get go and after very painful deliberations and meetings they did what they could to protect the university reputation and the safety and security of our students now and in the future by sending the correct message. put me in the corner of this probably wasnt severe enough.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

Roy, I respect your opinion. I just think that the timing sucked. I had my Billiken Basketball fan hat on instead of my SLU Law Alum hat. Nobody wins here...not the girl, not the team, and not the school.

[jbizzle09]

i dont mean to come down on you busted as you are far from the only one on this message board expressing this opinion of sorts but something just snapped after reading your above message. not that it was any worse or even close to the most disappointing view of this whole thing there have been many more over the last few weeks and in particular 24 hours. i cant even begin to describe how disappointed i am with the general tone of this board concerning this. maybe i am too old fashioned and conservative, but the level of casualness about the whole affair astounds me.

i think the board in general is way off on this. yes the leaked proceeds of the student code court doesnt appear was fair, but slu and that court didnt cause that fateful night to happen. the only ones to blame for what happened and the set back our program is about to take is the four billikens that were in that room that night.

regardless of what actually happened they used EXTREMELY bad judgement and there is no doubt in my mind that something bad indeed happened. i dont care about he said she said, i dont care about consent or not, i dont care about the declining sexual morals of today's youth, saint louis university is still a jesuit university and events of this degree shouldnt be happening, especially to our basketball players.

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

and let's not forget, while so many have insinuated blame and disgust at the girl, her life is ruined. she is gone from slu. her family and friends will forever look at her and think about "that night". casual acquaintences will blame her. hell she might as well go into witness protection.

and for those of you putting all your eggs into the credibility of willie reed sr's tirades and leaks of information to multiple media sources and perfectly playing the grapevine. please keep in mind this is the same man that put his emerging high school senior in a sham of a high school run by a basketball street agent in his son's senior year.

this is the same man that likely has been negotiating with frank martin the protege of bob huggins prior to getting his son's release and knowing he probably needed some leverage to get that release. i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

my gosh, let's be saint louis university alums, parents and students first. billiken fans second. get your priorities straight. they should go hand in hand. all i know is that father biondi, chris may and rick majerus are not stupid. if anyone thinks they f'd this up, they are wrong. the truth is probably closer to this was a lose lose situation from the get go and after very painful deliberations and meetings they did what they could to protect the university reputation and the safety and security of our students now and in the future by sending the correct message. put me in the corner of this probably wasnt severe enough.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

Roy, I definitely respect your views and opinions and am not looking to come down on or slam you in anyway. As you stated, SLU is a Jesuit university and in your opinion, the students should be held to that standard in the way they conduct themselves and live their lives. I also believe that many alums feel the same way that you do. And I think that is the crossroads we are at when it comes to SLU joining the ranks of 'big time' NCAA basketball. By expecting student-athletes (specifically basketball players) to conduct themselves in a highly moral manner and adhere to Jesuit standards at all times, in all likelihood you are basically stating that SLU should recruit players from a much smaller field. Basically, to recruit players that will live a saintly and virtuous life and have no issues ever brought up. Otherwise, don't even think about looking at top 150 recruits unless they came from a Catholic high school and were raised in a two-parent, upper middle-class household.

I am projecting a bit with that scenario, but it probably isn't far from the truth that many alums would prefer to have a team full of good, upstanding young Catholic men who fully believe in what the Church teaches. Roy speaks to this a bit by stating that being a basketball fan should be secondary. And to that, I cannot argue. However, with the expectation being that, you have to think it will be hard pressed for SLU to be able to recruit players that can move them to be a top 25 program. The thought that will be racing through top recruits minds in the coming years when deciding on a school might be "SLU might now be worth going to because their will be a higher moral expectation placed on me. However, I don't want that kind of pressure hanging over my head. Also, I'm not even Catholic. Think I'll go this other university instead."

Personally, I think the way this was handled and the decision that was given, as well as the Reeds making the media rounds, can potentially have a negative impact on the basketball program for years to come. Or, in some alums eyes, it may be a positive impact...

[RB2.0]

i dont mean to come down on you busted as you are far from the only one on this message board expressing this opinion of sorts but something just snapped after reading your above message. not that it was any worse or even close to the most disappointing view of this whole thing there have been many more over the last few weeks and in particular 24 hours. i cant even begin to describe how disappointed i am with the general tone of this board concerning this. maybe i am too old fashioned and conservative, but the level of casualness about the whole affair astounds me.

i think the board in general is way off on this. yes the leaked proceeds of the student code court doesnt appear was fair, but slu and that court didnt cause that fateful night to happen. the only ones to blame for what happened and the set back our program is about to take is the four billikens that were in that room that night.

regardless of what actually happened they used EXTREMELY bad judgement and there is no doubt in my mind that something bad indeed happened. i dont care about he said she said, i dont care about consent or not, i dont care about the declining sexual morals of today's youth, saint louis university is still a jesuit university and events of this degree shouldnt be happening, especially to our basketball players.

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

and let's not forget, while so many have insinuated blame and disgust at the girl, her life is ruined. she is gone from slu. her family and friends will forever look at her and think about "that night". casual acquaintences will blame her. hell she might as well go into witness protection.

and for those of you putting all your eggs into the credibility of willie reed sr's tirades and leaks of information to multiple media sources and perfectly playing the grapevine. please keep in mind this is the same man that put his emerging high school senior in a sham of a high school run by a basketball street agent in his son's senior year.

this is the same man that likely has been negotiating with frank martin the protege of bob huggins prior to getting his son's release and knowing he probably needed some leverage to get that release. i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

my gosh, let's be saint louis university alums, parents and students first. billiken fans second. get your priorities straight. they should go hand in hand. all i know is that father biondi, chris may and rick majerus are not stupid. if anyone thinks they f'd this up, they are wrong. the truth is probably closer to this was a lose lose situation from the get go and after very painful deliberations and meetings they did what they could to protect the university reputation and the safety and security of our students now and in the future by sending the correct message. put me in the corner of this probably wasnt severe enough.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

Perfectly stated. Some on this board have gotten way out of line with their comments. You have always been the most respected poster on this board and put forth rational and well thought out reasoning when forming an opinion. Believe me when I say this that 98% of the SLU population feels the way you feel, the way I feel, about this situation.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, I definitely respect your views and opinions and am not looking to come down on or slam you in anyway. As you stated, SLU is a Jesuit university and in your opinion, the students should be held to that standard in the way they conduct themselves and live their lives. I also believe that many alums feel the same way that you do. And I think that is the crossroads we are at when it comes to SLU joining the ranks of 'big time' NCAA basketball. By expecting student-athletes (specifically basketball players) to conduct themselves in a highly moral manner and adhere to Jesuit standards at all times, in all likelihood you are basically stating that SLU should recruit players from a much smaller field. Basically, to recruit players that will live a saintly and virtuous life and have no issues ever brought up. Otherwise, don't even think about looking at top 150 recruits unless they came from a Catholic high school and were raised in a two-parent, upper middle-class household.

I am projecting a bit with that scenario, but it probably isn't far from the truth that many alums would prefer to have a team full of good, upstanding young Catholic men who fully believe in what the Church teaches. Roy speaks to this a bit by stating that being a basketball fan should be secondary. And to that, I cannot argue. However, with the expectation being that, you have to think it will be hard pressed for SLU to be able to recruit players that can move them to be a top 25 program. The thought that will be racing through top recruits minds in the coming years when deciding on a school might be "SLU might now be worth going to because their will be a higher moral expectation placed on me. However, I don't want that kind of pressure hanging over my head. Also, I'm not even Catholic. Think I'll go this other university instead."

Personally, I think the way this was handled and the decision that was given, as well as the Reeds making the media rounds, can potentially have a negative impact on the basketball program for years to come. Or, in some alums eyes, it may be a positive impact...

i refuse to believe that all top recruits or even the majority have a low ethical backbone and want to go to college to raise hell and play basketball period. and if that is the truth and we condemn ourselves to mediocrity or less forever by only recruiting good citizens that will treat themselves, their teamates and their fellow students with nothing but respect and courtesy then so be it. i think you are wrong. and for the record i would bet that at least 2 of our four culprits in this situation were not bad kids but the level of peer pressure was likely more then they could stand up to. i have been a proponent for a number of years now that i cant imagine the level of peer pressuree that today's youth is confronted with on a daily basis.

nothing to base that on other than to see what a lot of my own kids had to stand up to while growing up and knowing that they had to make difficult decisions about childhood friends that went in the wrong direction. lucky for them and my wife and me, they refused and found new friends. that all said, one of the toughest life learns is making choices and then dealing with the consequences and/or rewards. our billikens in this scenario made the wrong choices and now they are dealing with the consequences. was the student court unfair? maybe. but they just shouldnt have been in that situation in the first place.

[Taj79]

Just for the record ----- I think the process could have been handled better. Equality -- in terms of parents, lawyers, etc. --- seems not to have been equal if we are to believe Reed Sr. and some other posts. Reed Sr. is stating law suit and I can't blame him for that if one believes the KSDK interviews.

I don't see much "pro" in this particular "process."

Now that the hand's been dealt, we play with the cards we've been given.

And from my foxhole, I am willing to bet we don't see Kwamain back at the U either. He's saying all the right things which is good in terms of keeping his options open. His lawyer says he will "be surprised" if Kwamain doesn't reapply. I fully expect him to be utterly surprised somewhere around, oh say, January.

[BIG BILL FAN]

i dont mean to come down on you busted as you are far from the only one on this message board expressing this opinion of sorts but something just snapped after reading your above message. not that it was any worse or even close to the most disappointing view of this whole thing there have been many more over the last few weeks and in particular 24 hours. i cant even begin to describe how disappointed i am with the general tone of this board concerning this. maybe i am too old fashioned and conservative, but the level of casualness about the whole affair astounds me.

i think the board in general is way off on this. yes the leaked proceeds of the student code court doesnt appear was fair, but slu and that court didnt cause that fateful night to happen. the only ones to blame for what happened and the set back our program is about to take is the four billikens that were in that room that night.

regardless of what actually happened they used EXTREMELY bad judgement and there is no doubt in my mind that something bad indeed happened. i dont care about he said she said, i dont care about consent or not, i dont care about the declining sexual morals of today's youth, saint louis university is still a jesuit university and events of this degree shouldnt be happening, especially to our basketball players.

i am p!ssed beyond probably anything that has ever happened to the program, and i am disappointed the way some things were handled, but bottom line, the ultimate blame and resulting penalties have fallen in the right place and there is a darn good chance that these young men are lucky their lives havent been screwed up even more than what they have already screwed them up.

and let's not forget, while so many have insinuated blame and disgust at the girl, her life is ruined. she is gone from slu. her family and friends will forever look at her and think about "that night". casual acquaintences will blame her. hell she might as well go into witness protection.

and for those of you putting all your eggs into the credibility of willie reed sr's tirades and leaks of information to multiple media sources and perfectly playing the grapevine. please keep in mind this is the same man that put his emerging high school senior in a sham of a high school run by a basketball street agent in his son's senior year.

this is the same man that likely has been negotiating with frank martin the protege of bob huggins prior to getting his son's release and knowing he probably needed some leverage to get that release. i would put crediblity in willie reed sr's statements and tirades about as far as i could pick up chaifetz arena and throw across compton onto harris stowe as to what might have actually happened throughout this ordeal.

my gosh, let's be saint louis university alums, parents and students first. billiken fans second. get your priorities straight. they should go hand in hand. all i know is that father biondi, chris may and rick majerus are not stupid. if anyone thinks they f'd this up, they are wrong. the truth is probably closer to this was a lose lose situation from the get go and after very painful deliberations and meetings they did what they could to protect the university reputation and the safety and security of our students now and in the future by sending the correct message. put me in the corner of this probably wasnt severe enough.

good night. i am going to go watch baseball and have a few beers and not read billikens.com for at least a few hours.

Roy, I was most intrigued by your last sentence "I'm going to watch baseball and have a few beers". It seems to me that most all of the problems at the university seem to start with drinking, partaicularly underage drinking. Yet we will continue to send the same messge over and over to our young people that drinking is fine, and getting wasted is just a normal part of being in college. We will continue to have the same posters laugh about their enibriated state and of the foolish things they did or saw when they were in college. Then when some one crosses the line we our outraged and disappointed by their behavior. How many drunk driving deaths, suicides, and sexual assaults and ruined lifes caused by drinking do we have to have before people wake up? Anyway Roy, I hoped you enoyed your beers last night and you feel better today. Do you know what is really sad? the only way most of our society know how to deal with stress or a problem is to start by having a drink.

[Archy McNally]

Great post Roy.

[SLUDrew]

Roy, I definitely respect your views and opinions and am not looking to come down on or slam you in anyway. As you stated, SLU is a Jesuit university and in your opinion, the students should be held to that standard in the way they conduct themselves and live their lives. I also believe that many alums feel the same way that you do. And I think that is the crossroads we are at when it comes to SLU joining the ranks of 'big time' NCAA basketball. By expecting student-athletes (specifically basketball players) to conduct themselves in a highly moral manner and adhere to Jesuit standards at all times, in all likelihood you are basically stating that SLU should recruit players from a much smaller field. Basically, to recruit players that will live a saintly and virtuous life and have no issues ever brought up. Otherwise, don't even think about looking at top 150 recruits unless they came from a Catholic high school and were raised in a two-parent, upper middle-class household.

I am projecting a bit with that scenario, but it probably isn't far from the truth that many alums would prefer to have a team full of good, upstanding young Catholic men who fully believe in what the Church teaches. Roy speaks to this a bit by stating that being a basketball fan should be secondary. And to that, I cannot argue. However, with the expectation being that, you have to think it will be hard pressed for SLU to be able to recruit players that can move them to be a top 25 program. The thought that will be racing through top recruits minds in the coming years when deciding on a school might be "SLU might now be worth going to because their will be a higher moral expectation placed on me. However, I don't want that kind of pressure hanging over my head. Also, I'm not even Catholic. Think I'll go this other university instead."

Personally, I think the way this was handled and the decision that was given, as well as the Reeds making the media rounds, can potentially have a negative impact on the basketball program for years to come. Or, in some alums eyes, it may be a positive impact...

Great post.

I am Catholic, from a two parent upple-middle class home, went to a prestigious Jesuit high school, and I wouldn't want to go to a school that I thought was buttoned down or too uptight. My point being, kids are going to be kids, and by their very nature kids want to have fun. And yes, sometimes it is fun to drink and hook up with a girl. Sorry, but I don't think by doing so you are damning yourself to burn in eternal hell-fire. In fact, I remember going to work the Special Olympics one morning after one such hook-up. On another occassion after a week long bender I woke up early on a Saturday to go assemble 300 bicycles for under-privileged youth.

In fact, I would bet you everything I own that Paul Eckerle, Luke Meyer, Kevin Lisch, Bryce Husak, and other saintly Billikens have done the very same thing.

If the word gets out that SLU is too uptight and you will be disciplined for doing things that virtually every other student on every other campus is diong, students are not going to want to go here, much less high profile basketball recruits.

Roy, you think you can win with choir boys? Ask my best friend who went to Notre Dame what he thinks about that. Notre Dame football might be the most recognizable entity in collegiate athletics. However, they have had similar disciplinary issues with players over the past several years (suspending one player for a whole year for having a joint). Now, none of the premier high school players want to go there. They will go to USC, Florida, LSU, or anywhere else where they will feel like they are not always being followed by the moral police. What's the result? Notre Dame football, which is INFINITELY more recognizable and appealing than SLU basketball has gone in the toilet by their standards.

Noone is advocating we allow criminals to be associated with SLU, but I don't think we are asking SLU to compromise its ethical backbone by allowing kids to be kids.

[BillyKen]

As a lifetime New York Yankee fan, I can tell you that the curse thing is absolute BS. I would have thought that Cardinals fans would agree and lets face it, the Red Sox and Cubs just SUCKED for all that time. There is no curse...SLU is making the transition of bringing in the sports culture onto campus. There are actually people who are not all about sports and are not fans of the change. Let's not forget, we just got our own on campus stadium and made the brought in a top notch coach to bring in top players. The cultural transition that SLU is going through is a means of improving education by increasing the school's athletic profile. Unfortunately, that time comes with some rough bumps in the road. SLU is going through an identity crisis and is unsure of whether to go all out with the academic push (which, let's face it, has not gotten SLU much national recognition...and that is coming from someone who went to SLU from NYC) or to incorporate athletics into the main picture. The "cursed" SLU team of the 70's-90's is long gone because the school has changed, or tried to change, its philosophy. This recent "curse" is simply the clash of two philosophies...those who support the bball push and those who fear the changes that accompany an athletics push. This change effects the type of students who apply to and are interested in the school (and I am not referring to black vs. white thing) but the type of student actually changes. SLU is going through this change, and is magnified because it is a small-mid size PRIVATE JESUIT school.

There is no curse. It is an adaptation to the times that is inevitable to occur to some extent when a traditionally academic based school attempts to weave athletics into its culture. And yes, SLU has been successful in soccer and a few other sports here and there, but college sports are really all about Football and Basketball because they bring in the $$.

[HusakAttack]

I agree that a lot of people posting have overlooked the gravity of the situation and the effect on the girls life. However, I also feel that this girl is as much to blame for this situation as any players were (unless it was a forced action).

That being said, I believe the people who are outraged at this situation have every right to be. Correct me if I am wrong but most of the people who post here are probably SLU alumni and season ticket holders. I would also assume that most of us have a passion for SLU because we enjoyed our time at the school and like to see other young people having the same enjoyment we did. That same enjoyment is not represented in this "hearing".

Granted, the players involved should not have put themselves in the situation to begin with. But I know if you got a harrassment charge for everytime someone engages in sexual activity in a apartment you are in, there would be very few SLU students "currently enrolled". Not to mention if this is the result the university sought why was it not handled in any sort of timely manner? Why was there a double standard in the hearings? Why did SLU break its own conduct in the hearings process?

I could keep going on this with many other points but the fact is that SLU absolutely handled this situation in poor form and without class or due diligence. This is not the university I grew to love and support.

[Tonka]

Guys, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Nobody is asking anybody to live "saintly" lives. I know the term "kids" is thrown around loosely here. These are young men that we are talking about - 20 year old young men. They may be "kids" to most of us, but old enough to make smart decisions. Nobody is asking them to be perfect either. Whether you are 20 or 40, you need to make smart decisions. As we get older, we tend to make better decisions because we have learned the hard way in life and generally have more wisdom. But, we were all held accountable for our bad decisions in life.

Nobody can tell me that our players are not told that they are in the public eye and that they need to be smart about their decisions. People say the players shouldn't have to act any different than other students. If that is the case, then why do teams have curfews for their players? I have heard RM speak about this very topic. He has said that he wants his players to be careful who they surround themselves with and while he can't completely control that, he continues to give them guidance. I'm sure the other coaches do as well.

We've all been in positions in life where we got up and left as to not be "involved" in a situation. While we may never have been a player in the situation, we still left as to not be in the "wrong place at the wrong time". It's just common sense.

I don't hold ill will against anybody for making a bad judgment, we've all done it. However, I am disappointed.

SLU may have totally screwed up this process and from what I am hearing, they did. So, they anger me. But, bottom line is that SLU should have never been in the position to drop the ball had these young men used better judgment.

Hats off to KM and his Mom for accepting this and doing what it takes to make amends. IF that is in fact what they are doing, you also have to respect somebody that makes a mistake and addresses it and comes back from it.

[billiken_roy]

I agree that a lot of people posting have overlooked the gravity of the situation and the effect on the girls life. However, I also feel that this girl is as much to blame for this situation as any players were (unless it was a forced action).

That being said, I believe the people who are outraged at this situation have every right to be. Correct me if I am wrong but most of the people who post here are probably SLU alumni and season ticket holders. I would also assume that most of us have a passion for SLU because we enjoyed our time at the school and like to see other young people having the same enjoyment we did. That same enjoyment is not represented in this "hearing".

Granted, the players involved should not have put themselves in the situation to begin with. But I know if you got a harrassment charge for everytime someone engages in sexual activity in a apartment you are in, there would be very few SLU students "currently enrolled". Not to mention if this is the result the university sought why was it not handled in any sort of timely manner? Why was there a double standard in the hearings? Why did SLU break its own conduct in the hearings process?

I could keep going on this with many other points but the fact is that SLU absolutely handled this situation in poor form and without class or due diligence. This is not the university I grew to love and support.

first many keep saying "why not blame the girl?" well in my mind the girl is taking her lumps. she is out of slu her college of choice, and she has likely lost the respect of her family and friends for life. as i said in a previous post, she might as well go into witness protection or move to the other side of the world. her life as she envisioned just months ago will never happen.

second i have read numerous times insinuating there should be nothing wrong with consensual sex for these students and if a few drinks were had so be it as well. ok. i admit that while at slu i had a few nights at humphreys, or clarks or bogarts. i can even indentify with drinks and then being alone with my then girlfriend now wife. however to equate this situation with 5 beers and conversation at humphreys and then back to the apartment/dorms to watch sleepless in seattle curled up next to each other isnt quite an accurate picture. i think we all know that isnt what happened.

this is a matter of going way past the line of sensibility. and i refuse to believe this is a normal night for college kids. if even an tenth of the story i have heard from numerous sources is true as to the accused happening, my gosh i dont know a single person personally that has engaged in anything like that. it is like comparing a person knocking down a wall with a hammer with someone driving into the wall with a bulldozer. not even close to the same level.

[b.hayes]

she has likely lost the respect of her family and friends for life

[Box and Won]

I can't stop laughing at this. I really can't explain why.

[JettFlight5]

I can't stop laughing at this. I really can't explain why.

It's like a train wreck...you want to look away, but you can't.