Ritter's Biedscheid commits to Notre Dame

[pakapablo]

just saw this on stltoday.com

[havelj]

Was he offered by Rick?

[For-DaLove]

Yes, we were one of his first offers.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Yes, we were one of his first offers.

SLU was the first to offer.

[Pistol]

This is disappointing. We were the first one in on a local kid who's rising rapidly. I hate to see the local kids we have a shot at slip away. I'd like to think that if we have a big season, this sort of thing will happen less. Then again, if we have a big season, he could re-open his commitment...

[b.hayes]

When you get a chance to play under The Mock Turtleneck and his unbrushed teeth you take it. Duh.

[MB73]

If you think Biedscheid's committment to ND is disapointing, you just don'r get it.

No local 4*-5* kid will play for SLU in the A-10 when he can play for a reputable Big East, ACC, SEC, Big 12 or Big 10 team.

It hasn't happened forever and won't happen, unless RM really gets us up a few more levels... for a few years.

Even then, I am not so sure one will stay here with our circumstances.

A possibility is if a "big" decides to stay here for RM's famed big man tutelege, especially if WR improves again this yr and goes in the NBA first round.

[Clock_Tower]

If you think Biedscheid's committment to ND is disapointing, you just don'r get it.

No local 4*-5* kid will play for SLU in the A-10 when he can play for a reputable Big East, ACC, SEC, Big 12 or Big 10 team.

It hasn't happened forever and won't happen, unless RM really gets us up a few more levels... for a few years.

Even then, I am not so sure one will stay here with our circumstances.

A possibility is if a "big" decides to stay here for RM's famed big man tutelege, especially if WR improves again this yr and goes in the NBA first round.

RM is now consistently getting some of the better 3 star recruits and not only 2 or 3 on the whole team - but instead the whole team full of these kids. Also, our new recruits aren't tweeners - between 2 stars and 3 stars - like we have seen and gushed over in the past. Frankly, I would rather have an undervalued (by recruiting services) 3 star recruit who catches RM's eye rather than some of the over-hyped 4 star recruits - who are athletic freaks but who are selfish and/or lack RM's passion for the game/improvement. If some of these 3 stars we are getting would instead go to bigger name BCS schoool, their rank would increase to a 4 star. Let's face it, there is not that much difference between upper 3 and lower 4 star recruits. I would love to see stats about how the 4 stars do in college compared to the 3 stars. Much of the difference, IMO, comes down to coaching, teammates and attitude/work habits. Remember, it's still a team game. In the past, we were fortunate to get 2 star recruits. Will SLU ever get a 5 star recruit? Not likely with our past history AND the A10. But 4 stars ARE likely and local 4 stars are just as likely, if not more so, than non-locals. 4 and 5 stars, though, will not come to SLU until we first win. 4 and 5 stars are not looking to come to SLU to get us to the Tourney.

Still, we are getting top flight talent from elsewhere. Top 3 stars. Some of the International kids (CE and RL) might be closer to 4 star quality if they grew up here in the States. My point is that it is normal for the best of St. Louis to want to go elsewhere -- but your repeated predictions of no local 4-5 will ever stay is not only inflamatory but not very smart either. When, not if, RM gets our team to heights it has not seen in 50 years, the locals will want to come as much as the non-locals. Memphis, Xavier, etc. are examples of schools where their teams are not in BCS conferences but unlike SLU, they have been winning and getting national attention for years.

In any event, I no longer care about locals. In the past, they were our only shot at getting good players. With RM, I could care less if the Ritter comes to SLU or not. The Saint Louis on their uniforms does not represent the place of their birth.

[mcglotherirvin]

brett thompson was a 4 start with an offer from notre dame. kevin lisch was offered by illinois. cody ellis was offered by wake forest. rob loe was offered by georgia tech. the list goes on and on. your post is simply inaccurate.

If you think Biedscheid's committment to ND is disapointing, you just don'r get it.

No local 4*-5* kid will play for SLU in the A-10 when he can play for a reputable Big East, ACC, SEC, Big 12 or Big 10 team.

It hasn't happened forever and won't happen, unless RM really gets us up a few more levels... for a few years.

Even then, I am not so sure one will stay here with our circumstances.

A possibility is if a "big" decides to stay here for RM's famed big man tutelege, especially if WR improves again this yr and goes in the NBA first round.

[NH]

If you think Biedscheid's committment to ND is disapointing, you just don'r get it.

No local 4*-5* kid will play for SLU in the A-10 when he can play for a reputable Big East, ACC, SEC, Big 12 or Big 10 team.

It hasn't happened forever and won't happen, unless RM really gets us up a few more levels... for a few years.

Even then, I am not so sure one will stay here with our circumstances.

A possibility is if a "big" decides to stay here for RM's famed big man tutelege, especially if WR improves again this yr and goes in the NBA first round.

Kids don't pick schools because of the conference. While that could be one of the factors in their decision, kids pick schools 1) because of the coach 2) the basketball tradition and 3) the facilities.

How do schools like Xavier, Dayton, Florida International, UTEP, UNLV, Nevada etc get highly rated kids if they are not in one of the big conferences? SLU will land 4 and 5 stars when we make the tournament and continue t make the tournament.

Although RIck likes to use the conference as an excuse for everything that goes wrong, it is not the reason kids choose other schools in most cases. And in fact some players have said the conference was a reason they chose to come to SLU.

Rick and his staff have won some key recruiting battles. However overall they have lost more of those battles than they have won. We have missed out on our top target(s) several years. But that is where what sepearates this coaching staff from the last comes into play. RM and staff have shown an ability to recover from those losses and add quality players. As soon as we start having success on a national level we will land more of those top targets.

[For-DaLove]

Kids don't pick schools because of the conference. While that could be one of the factors in their decision, kids pick schools 1) because of the coach 2) the basketball tradition and 3) the facilities.

How do schools like Xavier, Dayton, Florida International, UTEP, UNLV, Nevada etc get highly rated kids if they are not in one of the big conferences? SLU will land 4 and 5 stars when we make the tournament and continue t make the tournament.

Although RIck likes to use the conference as an excuse for everything that goes wrong, it is not the reason kids choose other schools in most cases. And in fact some players have said the conference was a reason they chose to come to SLU.

Rick and his staff have won some key recruiting battles. However overall they have lost more of those battles than they have won. We have missed out on our top target(s) several years. But that is where what sepearates this coaching staff from the last comes into play. RM and staff have shown an ability to recover from those losses and add quality players. As soon as we start having success on a national level we will land more of those top targets.

Good post, NH.

I will say this verbal means practically nothing. Does it kind of suck? Sure. And can ND be happy about it? Of course, but that doesn't mean the battle is over. There's a good chance we'll be a better team than ND this season, and hopefully we'll make the tournament, as well. I'm not sure how interested Biedscheid really is/ was in us, but success in these next two seasons can only raise the interest from him and other top level recruits.

[thetorch]

I was excited that SLU was even in the position to go after a kid like Biedscheid.

Kid went up to ND and was enamored with the place. ND was one of his dream schools and he jumped on the offer. Not sure how good a program ND will have but Biedscheid has tons of NBA potential. He hasn't scratched the surface of what he can do on the court.

Granger now is touting an Arkansas offer. Don't know if it is true but he could easily follow his new teammate down there.

It is going to take a couple years of success before local kids take notice. Majerus is also a picky recruiter, he won't take a hometown kid just to take him. I think that has turned off some kids. STL is going to be pretty strong next 3-4 years recruiting wise. Once we start winning and then get that one kid we'll start seeing more come in. We don't have to play that game though, not while Rick's here. We'd all like local kids but we don't necessarily need them as long as Majerus is here. The kids will come eventually.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Majerus is also a picky recruiter, he won't take a hometown kid just to take him. I think that has turned off some kids.

I don't know if this has turned off some "kids" but it appears it has turned off some local coaches.

[p diddy]

the key to RM's success is that if/when he goes after a top local kid, he doesn't let the kid string him along like Brad used to. He already has quality back-up plans in place. He doesn't sleep on other quality players, therefore, he isn't left holding the bag at the end of the day and forced to fill up his roster with a bunch of suspects that cannot play at this level. Plus, he is good at identifying and developing players. They went after Biedscheid hard, but there is a kid in Wisconsin in the same grade who they are tracking pretty good as well (forget the name, but he is pretty good). Plus, you have Jake Barnett for the next three years.

bad boyz for life

[slu72]

the key to RM's success is that if/when he goes after a top local kid, he doesn't let the kid string him along like Brad used to. He already has quality back-up plans in place. He doesn't sleep on other quality players, therefore, he isn't left holding the bag at the end of the day and forced to fill up his roster with a bunch of suspects that cannot play at this level. Plus, he is good at identifying and developing players. They went after Biedscheid hard, but there is a kid in Wisconsin in the same grade who they are tracking pretty good as well (forget the name, but he is pretty good). Plus, you have Jake Barnett for the next three years.

bad boyz for life

RM recruits under the assumption he won't get the top level locals. Whereas UB hung in there even though he had little chance, recall the Grimes case in which we lost Shaw who went to SIU and had a nice career. I think RM not hanging his hat on a good local will pay off in the long run. It sends the message that while you hem and haw, we're signing that 3 star from Chicago or Transylvania. If SLU generates excitement in St. L about the program, ie fills the Chai and goes to the dance, the locals may have a change of heart about the grass is always greener at the BCS schools. It's realistic recruiting and makes a whole lot more sense than what we saw out of Zo, go for broke, and Brad, who would take any stiff that was available after failing with his top recruits.

[Cowboy]

Kids don't pick schools because of the conference. While that could be one of the factors in their decision, kids pick schools 1) because of the coach 2) the basketball tradition and 3) the facilities.

How do schools like Xavier, Dayton, Florida International, UTEP, UNLV, Nevada etc get highly rated kids if they are not in one of the big conferences? SLU will land 4 and 5 stars when we make the tournament and continue t make the tournament.

Although RIck likes to use the conference as an excuse for everything that goes wrong, it is not the reason kids choose other schools in most cases. And in fact some players have said the conference was a reason they chose to come to SLU.

Rick and his staff have won some key recruiting battles. However overall they have lost more of those battles than they have won. We have missed out on our top target(s) several years. But that is where what sepearates this coaching staff from the last comes into play. RM and staff have shown an ability to recover from those losses and add quality players. As soon as we start having success on a national level we will land more of those top targets.

-how can kids not pick a school because of the conference and then later in the post have that some players pick SLU because of the conference?

-kids chose a school for any of a great number of reasons

-not sure how you are defining a recruiting battle, but in the context of if in a given year a school has 3 open spots and they are recruiting 12 kids to fill those three spots, then i guess they lost in the other 9 battles and therefore every year would lose battles than they win

[pakapablo]

the key to RM's success is that if/when he goes after a top local kid, he doesn't let the kid string him along like Brad used to. He already has quality back-up plans in place. He doesn't sleep on other quality players, therefore, he isn't left holding the bag at the end of the day and forced to fill up his roster with a bunch of suspects that cannot play at this level. Plus, he is good at identifying and developing players. They went after Biedscheid hard, but there is a kid in Wisconsin in the same grade who they are tracking pretty good as well (forget the name, but he is pretty good). Plus, you have Jake Barnett for the next three years.

bad boyz for life

Exactly! RM has a plan and sticks to it year in and year out consistently. His plan is realistic. The results speak for themselves. His plan has consistently landed better recruiting classes any other SLU coach since I have been following the team over the last 30 years.

[Taj79]

While I will admit to disappointment in this news, I am not disheartened. Again, in Rick & staff I trust. On to plan B.

I don't completely disagree with MB's statement .... but I would never say never. Right now, I think his statement is more accurate than not ---- if I'm a four-star plus recruit, I am out of here. Let's see --- this one to Notre Dame. Beal to Florida. Lee to Florida. Tyus to Florida. Swopeshire to Louisville. Suggs to Washington. Brandenburg to Virginia. Hansbrough to North Carolina. Hansbrough to Ole Miss/Notre Dame. The same is true here in Maryland ---- Gay to Uconn. Anthony to Syracuse. Josh Boone to Uconn. Sam Cassell to Florida State.

We are not really in a position to compete --- either as a program or from a conference standpoint. But we are getting better and closer. I was hoping to turn the corner on this one but it is still not meant to be. Hopefully, those of the "offer first and early" persuasion will also see that error in ways. What it is going to take is a real perceptive kid who can see through the forest for the trees and realize that he/they could be in on the makings of something extremely great. That usually involves sacrificing personal pride and ego ---- something hard to let go of by all these budding, usually-coddled superstars.

I also agree that this may not be over. But if it is, so be it. We won't be dying as badly as we used to.

[mcglotherirvin]

Kids absolutely pick schools because of the conference. Big East, Big 10, etc - that means ESPN coverage, bragging rights, and big time basketball. That's probably one of the main factors in a player's decision. As to your question about how other schools get highly rated kids without being in a big conference - it happens, but that's the exception to the rule. Xavier (has a big-time, financially endowed program), Dayton (not sure they actually get the 4 and 5 star player consistently), Florida International (see Isaiah Thomas), UTEP (cheats), UNLV (cheats), Nevada (they get 4 and 5 star players????)

To say RM has lost more recruiting battles than he has won is no different than any other coach. For every 20 kids you are after you end up signing 4. So, in that sense I guess you are 4 and 16, if we are keeping track. But to imply that he has been unsuccessful just displays a lack of appreciation for what's going on.

Kids don't pick schools because of the conference. While that could be one of the factors in their decision, kids pick schools 1) because of the coach 2) the basketball tradition and 3) the facilities.

How do schools like Xavier, Dayton, Florida International, UTEP, UNLV, Nevada etc get highly rated kids if they are not in one of the big conferences? SLU will land 4 and 5 stars when we make the tournament and continue t make the tournament.

Although RIck likes to use the conference as an excuse for everything that goes wrong, it is not the reason kids choose other schools in most cases. And in fact some players have said the conference was a reason they chose to come to SLU.

Rick and his staff have won some key recruiting battles. However overall they have lost more of those battles than they have won. We have missed out on our top target(s) several years. But that is where what sepearates this coaching staff from the last comes into play. RM and staff have shown an ability to recover from those losses and add quality players. As soon as we start having success on a national level we will land more of those top targets.

[Cowboy]

Exactly! RM has a plan and sticks to it year in and year out consistently. His plan is realistic. The results speak for themselves. His plan has consistently landed better recruiting classes any other SLU coach since I have been following the team over the last 30 years.

-well,the results of all of this need to be shown on the floor this season and i sure hope they are, and in a BIG way

-i am confident the results will be there!!!

[MB73]

brett thompson was a 4 start with an offer from notre dame. kevin lisch was offered by illinois. cody ellis was offered by wake forest. rob loe was offered by georgia tech. the list goes on and on. your post is simply inaccurate.

Local kids? Ellis and Loe?

If Brett Thompson was a 4*, I sure do not remember that... there are several entities that rank the kids, and there will be some discrepancies.

Lisch was a fine player for us, one of my favorites, but I recall he was a 3*; maybe he was 4* somewhere, do not remember seeing him as a 4*.

Certainly not 5*.

The "stars" are not the only criteria.

I am talking about big time prospects, at Jahidi White, David Lee, Beal levels, 5*, even strong 4*, that are definitley not 3*, the kind of local kids that get multiple offers to BCS conferences, contenders within those conferences.

We have never kept that kind of player in town.

[bonwich]

We have never kept that kind of player in town.

Well, Larry Hughes might disagree with you, but there were many special circumstances in that case.

Anyway, aside from keeping many-starred-local prospects in general, I just can't imagine ever getting a Ritter hotshot, at least not until we make Sweet 16 or higher. Can you imagine walking over two blocks to go to college? (Hey, 22 blocks was disappointing enough. :-) )

[bauman]

Well, Larry Hughes might disagree with you, but there were many special circumstances in that case.

Anyway, aside from keeping many-starred-local prospects in general, I just can't imagine ever getting a Ritter hotshot, at least not until we make Sweet 16 or higher. Can you imagine walking over two blocks to go to college? (Hey, 22 blocks was disappointing enough. :-) )

Are you talking about going from SLUH to SLU?

[Clock_Tower]

Local kids? Ellis and Loe?

If Brett Thompson was a 4*, I sure do not remember that... there are several entities that rank the kids, and there will be some discrepancies.

Lisch was a fine player for us, one of my favorites, but I recall he was a 3*; maybe he was 4* somewhere, do not remember seeing him as a 4*.

Certainly not 5*.

The "stars" are not the only criteria.

I am talking about big time prospects, at Jahidi White, David Lee, Beal levels, 5*, even strong 4*, that are definitley not 3*, the kind of local kids that get multiple offers to BCS conferences, contenders within those conferences.

We have never kept that kind of player in town.

MB.

Again, no program (even the established winning BCS programs) can keep all the local talent. Still, SLU has gotten its fair share (probably more than it has deserved) over the years. If you want to go back to Jahidi White, that's fine, but over the years we have landed some Top local talent such as: Monroe Douglas, Roland Gray, Anthony Bonner, Andrew Jones, (Mimlitz and Roder transferred in), Melvin Robinson, Carlos Skinner, nearly the whole Eagles team of Julian Winfield, Claggett, Highmark, Bickel and Grant, Larry, Tatum, Baniak, (transfers Pederson, Jamal Johnson and Kenny Brown), Sloan, Polk, Luke Meyer, Lisch and Liddell. Probably I'm missing some guys as well. And yes, some guys were not great college players -- but I mention them since this is a discussion of top local recruits. For instance, Dwayne Polk was not our best player but believe he was the area's top player and was prized recruit at the time. Same with Luke Meyer who was the area's scoring leader playing with other talented guys on those really good Borgia teams.

All these kids have come to SLU despite our few and far between visits to the Tourney, our lack of winning tradition, our pathetic facilities, our good to mediocre conference affiliations, etc. RM has been here 3 years and no winning success --- yet!! If the the good non-locals are coming, then don't act like the locals will never want to come here. Repeated comments like yours expose your loyalty to the Missouri Valley and jeolously toward SLU's program.

[MB73]

MB.

Again, no program (even the established winning BCS programs) can keep all the local talent. Still, SLU has gotten its fair share (probably more than it has deserved) over the years. If you want to go back to Jahidi White, that's fine, but over the years we have landed some Top local talent such as: Monroe Douglas, Roland Gray, Anthony Bonner, Andrew Jones, (Mimlitz and Roder transferred in), Melvin Robinson, Carlos Skinner, nearly the whole Eagles team of Julian Winfield, Claggett, Highmark, Bickel and Grant, Larry, Tatum, Baniak, (transfers Pederson, Jamal Johnson and Kenny Brown), Sloan, Polk, Luke Meyer, Lisch and Liddell. Probably I'm missing some guys as well. And yes, some guys were not great college players -- but I mention them since this is a discussion of top local recruits. For instance, Dwayne Polk was not our best player but believe he was the area's top player and was prized recruit at the time. Same with Luke Meyer who was the area's scoring leader playing with other talented guys on those really good Borgia teams.

All these kids have come to SLU despite our few and far between visits to the Tourney, our lack of winning tradition, our pathetic facilities, our good to mediocre conference affiliations, etc. RM has been here 3 years and no winning success --- yet!! If the the good non-locals are coming, then don't act like the locals will never want to come here. Repeated comments like yours expose your loyalty to the Missouri Valley and jeolously toward SLU's program.

Sure, we've kept some damn good players, but never the 5* types.

The kids you mentioned were good signees but not 5*, recruited by multiple BCS conference contenders.

Like Beal: Florida, Duke, Kansas, Ohio State...

(& fyi your last sentence is ridiculous)