Loe update?

[SLUDrew]

Drew, you are the instigator here. Roy hadn't said anything in this thread, and you called him out, needlessly. Why are you ruining a decent thread?

Thicks, you jumped on me in another thread and claimed I "hijacked" it as well. What is your deal with me?? I did not jump all over Roy. In fact I began my post by complimenting his passion for Billiken basketball.

[willie]

Thicks, you jumped on me in another thread and claimed I "hijacked" it as well. What is your deal with me?? I did not jump all over Roy. In fact I began my post by complimenting his passion for Billiken basketball.

Come on Thicks,your ruining a good thread.

[BIG BILL FAN]

where did i say that i would prefer to "go back to Sodie ball"? please provide the link.

Roy, you didn't have to say it, you imply it with every post. You are continually negative about RM. I wish you would have been as passionate about the poor recruiting of the prior coach. You know Roy, we don't live in a perfect world, you have the choice to focus on the good things about a person, or the bad things. In your case, you are about 95% negative in regards to RM..

[moytoy12]

Roy, you didn't have to say it, you imply it with every post. You are continually negative about RM. I wish you would have been as passionate about the poor recruiting of the prior coach. You know Roy, we don't live in a perfect world, you have the choice to focus on the good things about a person, or the bad things. In your case, you are about 95% negative in regards to RM..

It doesn't necessarily mean Roy would like a return to Sodie ball. Roy can like Sodie, dislike RM's personal traits, and prefer something in between the two (speaking both in terms of coaching ability and personality).

Also, when someone criticizes RM, that poster is usually then labeled as someone that wants a return to the the pre-RM days. That just ain't true and is pretty silly.

[ACE]

Thicks, you jumped on me in another thread and claimed I "hijacked" it as well. What is your deal with me?? I did not jump all over Roy. In fact I began my post by complimenting his passion for Billiken basketball.

Some times it is very difficult to figure out what will set off thicks. What I do know is that saying SPUMAC will usually do the trick.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, you didn't have to say it, you imply it with every post. You are continually negative about RM. I wish you would have been as passionate about the poor recruiting of the prior coach. You know Roy, we don't live in a perfect world, you have the choice to focus on the good things about a person, or the bad things. In your case, you are about 95% negative in regards to RM..

how is being negative about rickma = "go back to Sodie ball"? unlike apparently you, i seem to think there is a coach blueprint out there that isnt either brad soderberg or rick majerus. surely it is possible to be a "how to" coach on the floor AND a geniunely good person that can serve as an ambassador for the university in every way.

btw, while you say i am "continually negative about RM" i think i have also defended his coaching as much as anyone on the board.

[MB73]

Roy, you didn't have to say it, you imply it with every post. You are continually negative about RM. I wish you would have been as passionate about the poor recruiting of the prior coach. You know Roy, we don't live in a perfect world, you have the choice to focus on the good things about a person, or the bad things. In your case, you are about 95% negative in regards to RM..

Agree, BBF!

Every day there is a "back door Broy cheap shot" at Majerus.

And there are several other whiners that do the same thing, all the time.

WTF do you guys want?

[MB73]

Drew, you are the instigator here. Roy hadn't said anything in this thread, and you called him out, needlessly. Why are you ruining a decent thread?

Not appropriate for a moderator!

Roy takes shots at RM all the time, maybe did not say the specific item cited on this thread, he has learned to be careful about refferring to Sodie, but we all know his agenda. Tiring.

YOU know ###### well he does it all the time.

Are you in cahoots with the legenday poster, Broy? Pal of his????

[ACE]

We are currently playing 3 big men (CE, WR and JS). WR and JS play basically the same game on offense; neither can score from more than a few feet away from the basket and get most of thier points on dunks and lay-ups. Why would Loe replace WR and not JS in the starting lineup? Willie can play the 4 spot and he'd be more than happy to do so because Majerus could tell him those are the type of guys he'd play against in the NBA.

With Loe on this team, the starting lineup would look something like this:

KM, KC/MM/CS, CE, WR, RL

We would be a ###### impressive team.

I agree. Cody is already playing some at the 3 on offense. Majerus plays match-ups. You could see Willie playing the 4 and 5. Cody would rotate between the 3 and 4. I think if Thompson had stayed, we would have seen some Willie getting some minutes at the 4 this year. With Loe, it would happen. Willie playing the 4 and Cody playing the 3 would help both of their professional chances. Defensively, Cody could have trouble guarding some 3s, but not every 3 we come up against is a great scorer. Plus, Cody would cause fits for a lot of 3s who had to guard him. The addition of Loe would give of us a lot of fun match-up options.

[billiken_roy]

Agree, BBF!

Every day there is a "back door Broy cheap shot" at Majerus.

And there are several other whiners that do the same thing, all the time.

WTF do you guys want?

as stated above,

"i seem to think there is a coach blueprint out there that isnt either brad soderberg or rick majerus. surely it is possible to be a "how to" coach on the floor AND a geniunely good person that can serve as an ambassador for the university in every way."

my question to you and all his defenders, why dont you want the same? why are you willing to settle for just the W's? in the great scheme of all things, while the W's are wonderful, i just dont want to compromise integrity to get there.

[SShoe]

my question to you and all his defenders, why dont you want the same? why are you willing to settle for just the W's? in the great scheme of all things, while the W's are wonderful, i just dont want to compromise integrity to get there.

Because putting up with a weird or even jerk-like personality is not really compromising on integrity. It's not as if Majerus is running a dirty program or anything like that. And he's hardly a bad guy or anything, he's just a little too out-spoken and somewhat of an oddball.

I just don't feel that I need to personally like the guy to be a fan of the team. In fact, if I had to like the personality of all the players and/or coaches on the teams I call for, I might as well give up and start going to the Symphony more often.

[Tonka]

Because putting up with a weird or even jerk-like personality is not really compromising on integrity. It's not as if Majerus is running a dirty program or anything like that. I just don't feel that I need to personally like the guy to be a fan of the team. In fact, if I had to like the personality of all the players and/or coaches on the teams I call for, I might as well give up and start going to the Symphony more often.

Have you ever met the percussion section of an orchestra???? Complete jerks!!!

[willie]

Have you ever met the percussion section of an orchestra???? Complete jerks!!!

Yeah but the guy who plays the cow bell is cool.

[SShoe]

Have you ever met the percussion section of an orchestra???? Complete jerks!!!

Well then I'm ####ED!

[Clock_Tower]

This post is a joke, Im sorry clock_tower, but to say Loe would replace WIllie is just stupid. WIllie is getting double-teamed nearly everytime he touches the ball down low. Name one center whos outplayed him. Against the A-10's top centers (Geriot, Murray, Nicholson) Reed has constantly held his own or outplayed them. Willie is nearly averaging a double-double and for you to say Loe would be better is ridiculous.

Has anyone seen this Loe kid play. I know his stats are good, but hes playing for New Zealand, Im sure he gets plenty of touches.

Willie is going to be an All-conference player next year, I guarentee it. He is borderline all-conference as it stands.

NH. Joke?? Who's joking? Not trying to take personal shots, but aren't you the guy who, w/o seeing CE, said that CE would not start, that he was a freshman and did not know the players and RM's system, that CE would play behind our then starters (BC) and that he also would battle CR for minutes? Clearly you were wrong about CE.

Now, w/o seeing Loe play either, you pronounce that WR will be our 5 next year b/c of WR's potential? When WR puts on 30 to 40 lbs of additional weight/muscle in the off-season and stops getting pushed around in the lane, then we can talk about WR being a fixture in the starting lineup. Until then, WR is no fixture in my book. The only fixture on this team is KM.

As to Loe, "yes" he plays in New Zealand. Is that an insult? Is that inferior to Austrailia? Why the animosity for non-US athletes?

NH. Surprised at your comments. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. If Loe and CE played internationally, if Loe was the better player of the two, if CE can come to SLU in the middle of the season w/o knowledge of the SLU players/RM but instantly becomes one of our best players/starters, then why is it a "joke" to suggest that Loe (who this past summer was "better" than CE) would come in and start next year? In fact, barring NCAA clearinghouse issues, Loe would start school in the Fall, would get to know the team both on and off the court, would get individual workouts with the coaching staff like all players do, would have the whole preseason to practice with the team, get in game shape and learn RM's system -- all advantages that CE did not have.

[NH]

NH. Joke?? Who's joking? Not trying to take personal shots, but aren't you the guy who, w/o seeing CE, said that CE would not start, that he was a freshman and did not know the players and RM's system, that CE would play behind our then starters (BC) and that he also would battle CR for minutes? Clearly you were wrong about CE.

I said Ellis would not start right away (correct), that he would start by the end of the year (correct), that he would need to improve strength and defense (correct) and that he would struggle with RickMa's o-ffense (incorrect). Honestly, I thought Ellis would be good, but not as good as he has been. I still don't think he is quite as amazing as people are pumping him up to be, but he has been a very, very good freshman.

Now, w/o seeing Loe play either, you pronounce that WR will be our 5 next year b/c of WR's potential? When WR puts on 30 to 40 lbs of additional weight/muscle in the off-season and stops getting pushed around in the lane, then we can talk about WR being a fixture in the starting lineup. Until then, WR is no fixture in my book. The only fixture on this team is KM.

Willie is averaging 12 points and nine rebounds a game. He is commanding a double-team and is getting much better at handling it. Not only is it based on potential, it is based on results. Willie is not just a guy with potential, he is a possible all-conference center THIS year.

As to Loe, "yes" he plays in New Zealand. Is that an insult? Is that inferior to Austrailia? Why the animosity for non-US athletes?

Yes, their U-19 team was inferior to Australia's. Rob Loe is a big fish in a small pond, so he is going to have a lot of touches and a lot of chances to score. You have no basis for saying Loe is better unless you have seen them play then you can say which one is better, IMO.

NH. Surprised at your comments. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. If Loe and CE played internationally, if Loe was the better player of the two, if CE can come to SLU in the middle of the season w/o knowledge of the SLU players/RM but instantly becomes one of our best players/starters, then why is it a "joke" to suggest that Loe (who this past summer was "better" than CE) would come in and start next year? In fact, barring NCAA clearinghouse issues, Loe would start school in the Fall, would get to know the team both on and off the court, would get individual workouts with the coaching staff like all players do, would have the whole preseason to practice with the team, get in game shape and learn RM's system -- all advantages that CE did not have.

Again, no basis for saying Loe is better. I have read every possible article on Loe I can find on the internet and watched any video clip I can find. I am sure he will be a good player. But we dont have Loe and we have WIllie and Willie is already a good player, a ###### good player and I think for you to say he is all potential is downright stupid. And I know you are an intelligent poster so this surprised me.

[Clock_Tower]

I said Ellis would not start right away (correct), that he would start by the end of the year (correct), that he would need to improve strength and defense (correct) and that he would struggle with RickMa's o-ffense (incorrect). Honestly, I thought Ellis would be good, but not as good as he has been. I still don't think he is quite as amazing as people are pumping him up to be, but he has been a very, very good freshman.

Willie is averaging 12 points and nine rebounds a game. He is commanding a double-team and is getting much better at handling it. Not only is it based on potential, it is based on results. Willie is not just a guy with potential, he is a possible all-conference center THIS year.

Yes, their U-19 team was inferior to Australia's. Rob Loe is a big fish in a small pond, so he is going to have a lot of touches and a lot of chances to score. You have no basis for saying Loe is better unless you have seen them play then you can say which one is better, IMO.

Again, no basis for saying Loe is better. I have read every possible article on Loe I can find on the internet and watched any video clip I can find. I am sure he will be a good player. But we dont have Loe and we have WIllie and Willie is already a good player, a ###### good player and I think for you to say he is all potential is downright stupid. And I know you are an intelligent poster so this surprised me.

NH.

Totally missing my point. I am a huge WR fan. I am very pleased with his progress to date. He is having a better Soph year than I had expected. Still, IMO, the only guaranteed starter for us is KM. WR is not yet on that level - admittedly - a very high level. When I speak about "potential", I am referring to the improvement that I believe WR must make to make him a guaranteed starter like KM. Apparently, you have WR down as a guaranteed starter already. Again, IMO, WR is good but not there yet. WR's play decreased when the tougher conference games started. Hopefully, WR and the team are adjusting in that his play in Philly is showing us more the WR we saw earlier in the year. Will he get there? I hope so. Until then, it's still just "potential".

As to CE, yes, he has parts of his game that could be improved even more. For a guy who joined the team only a month ago, though, he is playing awesome. For some reason, you still cannot or won't give CE credit. No doubt in my mind that CE would be even better for us if he had been here since August. As to your comments about the impact CE would have, I could go back to your many posts, copy them and insert them in here if you'd like. If so, I'd suggest that your words, and especially your tone, suggested that you were very skeptical of what CE would actually do THIS year. Suffice it to say that you would not have thought CE would have already started 6 of 9 games, would already be averaging 29.1 minute per game along with 11.7 ppg (only KM with 15 ppg and WR with 12.2 ppg are higher). W/o the pre-season practice and w/o the first half of the season playing easier games, CE is still nearly tied for 2nd leading scorer (avarage wise) and is only 3 pts off being the team leader. And yet, apparently, you continue to doubt: "I still don't think he is quite as amazing as people are pumping him up to be". Admit it - you were completely wrong about CE.

As to Loe, "no", I have not seen him play. At the same time, neither have you? Hopefully, Loe comes to SLU and we can can watch the competition unfold. If WR prevails, then I'd be pleased. If Loe prevails, again, I'd be pleased. Depth, competition and winning. That's what we want, right? Like you, I have a read alot about Loe as well. Still, I haven't read anything to suggest that Loe is some big fish in a small pond kind of guy - implying that he will have a big learning curve at college, implying that he wouldn't get the minutes/points on another team and that he will not be ready to step in and start over college Junior. CE is not your typical Freshman and Loe does not appear to be so either. By all accounts, Loe appears to be a really special recruit. Recruits like that start. Again, where's the joke?

[NH]

NH.

Totally missing my point. I am a huge WR fan. I am very pleased with his progress to date. He is having a better Soph year than I had expected. Still, IMO, the only guaranteed starter for us is KM. WR is not yet on that level - admittedly - a very high level. When I speak about "potential", I am referring to the improvement that I believe WR must make to make him a guaranteed starter like KM. Apparently, you have WR down as a guaranteed starter already. Again, IMO, WR is good but not there yet. WR's play decreased when the tougher conference games started. Hopefully, WR and the team are adjusting in that his play in Philly is showing us more the WR we saw earlier in the year. Will he get there? I hope so. Until then, it's still just "potential".

As to CE, yes, he has parts of his game that could be improved even more. For a guy who joined the team only a month ago, though, he is playing awesome. For some reason, you still cannot or won't give CE credit. No doubt in my mind that CE would be even better for us if he had been here since August. As to your comments about the impact CE would have, I could go back to your many posts, copy them and insert them in here if you'd like. If so, I'd suggest that your words, and especially your tone, suggested that you were very skeptical of what CE would actually do THIS year. Suffice it to say that you would not have thought CE would have already started 6 of 9 games, would already be averaging 29.1 minute per game along with 11.7 ppg (only KM with 15 ppg and WR with 12.2 ppg are higher). W/o the pre-season practice and w/o the first half of the season playing easier games, CE is still nearly tied for 2nd leading scorer (avarage wise) and is only 3 pts off being the team leader. And yet, apparently, you continue to doubt: "I still don't think he is quite as amazing as people are pumping him up to be". Admit it - you were completely wrong about CE.

As to Loe, "no", I have not seen him play. At the same time, neither have you? Hopefully, Loe comes to SLU and we can can watch the competition unfold. If WR prevails, then I'd be pleased. If Loe prevails, again, I'd be pleased. Depth, competition and winning. That's what we want, right? Like you, I have a read alot about Loe as well. Still, I haven't read anything to suggest that Loe is some big fish in a small pond kind of guy - implying that he will have a big learning curve at college, implying that he wouldn't get the minutes/points on another team and that he will not be ready to step in and start over college Junior. CE is not your typical Freshman and Loe does not appear to be so either. By all accounts, Loe appears to be a really special recruit. Recruits like that start. Again, where's the joke?

"I thought Ellis would be good, but not as good as he has been."

That is my exact quote so I dont see how I am not giving CE credit.

PPG: 12.2; 13.8

RPG: 8.3; 8.7

FG%:55%; 54%

Those are the comparisons between Willie and Anthony Bonner comparing their sophomore years. Im not saying Willie is Bonner, but He is the best sophomore big man since then by far. We should be thanking God we have such a good young big man instead of asking for some guy who we dont even know wants to be a billiken and may never be as good. Willie has added 30 lbs since last year, and I bet he adds another 20 after this year. If you have a borderline all-conference center who has shown a good work ethic and a good attitude, who NBA scouts are raving about, who opposing coaches are raving about, why wouldn't you pencil him in over some kid who you have never seen play. Loe would be a nice recruit, but hes not a Billiken and hes not an all-american so why say you expect him to be better than Willie.

You say I dont give cody the respect, how about giving Willie some respect. If we didnt have Willie I bet Cody wouldnt be scoring double digits this year.

[Pick and Roll]

how is being negative about rickma = "go back to Sodie ball"? unlike apparently you, i seem to think there is a coach blueprint out there that isnt either brad soderberg or rick majerus. surely it is possible to be a "how to" coach on the floor AND a geniunely good person that can serve as an ambassador for the university in every way.

btw, while you say i am "continually negative about RM" i think i have also defended his coaching as much as anyone on the board.

You in fact have many more negative posts about RM than you do positive. Your posts defending his coaching style and technique are minimal at best.

How do you know that RM is not a genuinely good person? Do you know him personally? You are making an inference that he is not a genuinely good person by your statement above; do you agree with this assessment?

[Pick and Roll]

my question to you and all his defenders, why dont you want the same? why are you willing to settle for just the W's? in the great scheme of all things, while the W's are wonderful, i just dont want to compromise integrity to get there.

The integrity of what has been compromised? Your expectations are that of a dreamland. You want all the benefits of winnings but shutter at the realities of getting there. You cannot have it all - it only exists in a world dominated by puppy dogs and ice cream, which doesn't exist.

[Clock_Tower]

"I thought Ellis would be good, but not as good as he has been."

That is my exact quote so I dont see how I am not giving CE credit.

PPG: 12.2; 13.8

RPG: 8.3; 8.7

FG%:55%; 54%

Those are the comparisons between Willie and Anthony Bonner comparing their sophomore years. Im not saying Willie is Bonner, but He is the best sophomore big man since then by far. We should be thanking God we have such a good young big man instead of asking for some guy who we dont even know wants to be a billiken and may never be as good. Willie has added 30 lbs since last year, and I bet he adds another 20 after this year. If you have a borderline all-conference center who has shown a good work ethic and a good attitude, who NBA scouts are raving about, who opposing coaches are raving about, why wouldn't you pencil him in over some kid who you have never seen play. Loe would be a nice recruit, but hes not a Billiken and hes not an all-american so why say you expect him to be better than Willie.

You say I dont give cody the respect, how about giving Willie some respect. If we didnt have Willie I bet Cody wouldnt be scoring double digits this year.

Why do I get the feeling that your answer would be the same if an RM were recruiting Shaquille O'Neal (age 18) instead of Loe? No thanks, Shaq, we already WR and are not interested.

Personally, if WR puts on 20 lbs more and stops getting pushed around - and instead starts pushing others around, then I would pencil WR in. In fact, IMO, WR is/should be penciled in already. A starting position is for the JR to lose and for the FR to try and take away. WR has earned the right to be the starter subject of course to losing the spot to a better/younger player. By comparison, it is easier for CE to beat out Soph BC than if BC were a JR or SR. Same with Loe, should he arrive. Easier for Loe to be out a Soph WR than (hopefully) a JR WR. At the same time, Loe is not your typical Freshman.

NH. Again, admit you were completely wrong about CE and now might be wrong about Loe as well. And, btw, you're the one bringing this up. W/o the joke comments, I would not have pointed out your predictions about CE which turned out to be wrong. Remember these comments:

* I expect Ellis to be more athletic than conklin and less than WR, JS and probably CR based on what Ive seen.

* I am still shaking my head at how people expect so much from him. He scored ten points in his first game, a good feat. But, what has given us the expectation that he will be so good. Rick has said he will be the same level player as Willie and Kwa, but none of us had this high of expectations from either of them. Cody will probably be a good player, but I don't think he is all the way there yet.

Seriously, other than a good stroke and some savvy, what did Cody really show on saturday. Yes, I know it was his first game and I think he did all that could be expected coming off of five practices, but it's gonna take a lot of time for him to get there. I have been reading billikens.com for close to four years, and I have never, ever seen a recruit with so much hype coming in, and for what reason?

I would love it if someone could explain this more thoroughly because I do not quite understand.

* He has been better than Cory offensively, but Cory has been better defensively. Cody adds a new element to the team because he is a different type of player than either Jon or Cory, but until he starts hitting shots at a higher clip lets be careful how we use the term "better".

NH. CE still not very athletic? Has CE shown you enough yet this year? Still not sure if CE or CR is the better player?

As mentioned, I do like WR but WR's play is not leaving CE open to score. Your man crush of WR is affecting your judgment. CE is becoming our only real outside threat at times and CE's scoring does not appear to be affected by WR's inside play. BTW, WR is averaging 12.2 ppg and CE is averaging 11.7 ppg.

[GOSLU68]

Why do I get the feeling that your answer would be the same if an RM were recruiting Shaquille O'Neal (age 18) instead of Loe? No thanks, Shaq, we already WR and are not interested.

Personally, if WR puts on 20 lbs more and stops getting pushed around - and instead starts pushing others around, then I would pencil WR in. In fact, IMO, WR is/should be penciled in already. A starting position is for the JR to lose and for the FR to try and take away. WR has earned the right to be the starter subject of course to losing the spot to a better/younger player. By comparison, it is easier for CE to beat out Soph BC than if BC were a JR or SR. Same with Loe, should he arrive. Easier for Loe to be out a Soph WR than (hopefully) a JR WR. At the same time, Loe is not your typical Freshman.

NH. Again, admit you were completely wrong about CE and now might be wrong about Loe as well. And, btw, you're the one bringing this up. W/o the joke comments, I would not have pointed out your predictions about CE which turned out to be wrong. Remember these comments:

* I expect Ellis to be more athletic than conklin and less than WR, JS and probably CR based on what Ive seen.

* I am still shaking my head at how people expect so much from him. He scored ten points in his first game, a good feat. But, what has given us the expectation that he will be so good. Rick has said he will be the same level player as Willie and Kwa, but none of us had this high of expectations from either of them. Cody will probably be a good player, but I don't think he is all the way there yet.

Seriously, other than a good stroke and some savvy, what did Cody really show on saturday. Yes, I know it was his first game and I think he did all that could be expected coming off of five practices, but it's gonna take a lot of time for him to get there. I have been reading billikens.com for close to four years, and I have never, ever seen a recruit with so much hype coming in, and for what reason?

I would love it if someone could explain this more thoroughly because I do not quite understand.

* He has been better than Cory offensively, but Cory has been better defensively. Cody adds a new element to the team because he is a different type of player than either Jon or Cory, but until he starts hitting shots at a higher clip lets be careful how we use the term "better".

NH. CE still not very athletic? Has CE shown you enough yet this year? Still not sure if CE or CR is the better player?

As mentioned, I do like WR but WR's play is not leaving CE open to score. Your man crush of WR is affecting your judgment. CE is becoming our only real outside threat at times and CE's scoring does not appear to be affected by WR's inside play. BTW, WR is averaging 12.2 ppg and CE is averaging 11.7 ppg.

I looks to me the bout with flu and running have led CE to lose about 20 pounds; by next season he should be as hard

as BC and that will probably be the first time in his life he would really be competitive when it comes to defending and

taking his man based on speed of movement. We have all seen he can hit from many positions. He does not have

to be assisted to get his shot off, now. He rebounds, scores, has quick enough hands to steal passes and will grapple

for the ball ( he won't necessarily dive into a scrum like CS) He is at least the most complete skilled player and the

one playing his natural position on the team. I think KM is a 2 growing into a combo guard and quite good. I like him

next best on team providing he remembers the other four guys in the blue and white are his team mates.

[NH]

Why do I get the feeling that your answer would be the same if an RM were recruiting Shaquille O'Neal (age 18) instead of Loe? No thanks, Shaq, we already WR and are not interested.

Personally, if WR puts on 20 lbs more and stops getting pushed around - and instead starts pushing others around, then I would pencil WR in. In fact, IMO, WR is/should be penciled in already. A starting position is for the JR to lose and for the FR to try and take away. WR has earned the right to be the starter subject of course to losing the spot to a better/younger player. By comparison, it is easier for CE to beat out Soph BC than if BC were a JR or SR. Same with Loe, should he arrive. Easier for Loe to be out a Soph WR than (hopefully) a JR WR. At the same time, Loe is not your typical Freshman.

NH. Again, admit you were completely wrong about CE and now might be wrong about Loe as well. And, btw, you're the one bringing this up. W/o the joke comments, I would not have pointed out your predictions about CE which turned out to be wrong. Remember these comments:

* I expect Ellis to be more athletic than conklin and less than WR, JS and probably CR based on what Ive seen.

* I am still shaking my head at how people expect so much from him. He scored ten points in his first game, a good feat. But, what has given us the expectation that he will be so good. Rick has said he will be the same level player as Willie and Kwa, but none of us had this high of expectations from either of them. Cody will probably be a good player, but I don't think he is all the way there yet.

Seriously, other than a good stroke and some savvy, what did Cody really show on saturday. Yes, I know it was his first game and I think he did all that could be expected coming off of five practices, but it's gonna take a lot of time for him to get there. I have been reading billikens.com for close to four years, and I have never, ever seen a recruit with so much hype coming in, and for what reason?

I would love it if someone could explain this more thoroughly because I do not quite understand.

* He has been better than Cory offensively, but Cory has been better defensively. Cody adds a new element to the team because he is a different type of player than either Jon or Cory, but until he starts hitting shots at a higher clip lets be careful how we use the term "better".

NH. CE still not very athletic? Has CE shown you enough yet this year? Still not sure if CE or CR is the better player?

As mentioned, I do like WR but WR's play is not leaving CE open to score. Your man crush of WR is affecting your judgment. CE is becoming our only real outside threat at times and CE's scoring does not appear to be affected by WR's inside play. BTW, WR is averaging 12.2 ppg and CE is averaging 11.7 ppg.

I dont think CE has above average athleticism. I think he has below average strength and at best average quickness. His defense has been lackluster so far.....

BUT

He has definitely surpassed my expectations. While in his first couple of games he showed very limited offensive diversity, he has displayed a couple of nice drives and mid-range jumpers lately. And the above listed cons are too be expected with such little experience.

To say I "was completely wrong" is silly, he has surpassed my expectations, but only by a point or two a game. Also, If you dont think WR helps get CE many open looks then youre probably not watching the game very closely. A lot of his shots come either from the high post, or on ball reversal, often out of passes from WR down low.

Again, what basis do you have for saying Loe is not a typical freshman. He seems like a very solid player, but not any more so than MM, but we dont pencil him in as a starter until he proves something.

IT just frustrates me that SLU finaly has the star big man that we have been pleading for for years, and we just want to write him off because of some NEw Zealander WHO IS NOT EVEN A BILLIKEN.

[doowop]

I dont think CE has above average athleticism. I think he has below average strength and at best average quickness. His defense has been lackluster so far.....

BUT

He has definitely surpassed my expectations. While in his first couple of games he showed very limited offensive diversity, he has displayed a couple of nice drives and mid-range jumpers lately. And the above listed cons are too be expected with such little experience.

To say I "was completely wrong" is silly, he has surpassed my expectations, but only by a point or two a game. Also, If you dont think WR helps get CE many open looks then youre probably not watching the game very closely. A lot of his shots come either from the high post, or on ball reversal, often out of passes from WR down low.

Again, what basis do you have for saying Loe is not a typical freshman. He seems like a very solid player, but not any more so than MM, but we dont pencil him in as a starter until he proves something.

IT just frustrates me that SLU finaly has the star big man that we have been pleading for for years, and we just want to write him off because of some NEw Zealander WHO IS NOT EVEN A BILLIKEN.

Amen.

[billiken_roy]

The integrity of what has been compromised? Your expectations are that of a dreamland. You want all the benefits of winnings but shutter at the realities of getting there. You cannot have it all - it only exists in a world dominated by puppy dogs and ice cream, which doesn't exist.

so you think it is fine that he is going around the country where many times he is viewed as a de facto spokesman for the university and constantly saying just the wrong things for unversity sakes? you think it is good that every few months we get some expose about his actions as coach that are less than flattering? you think it is good that he has the reputation as a non people person? you think it is good he refuses to represent the program with the local media by ditching his show, rarely doing post game interviews, etc? in my "puppy dogs and ice cream" world, the head coach is an ambassador of the university. in my corporate world middle managers sing out of the company hymnal in public. behind closed doors they might have debates about the songs to sing with the higher ups, but they dont do it via the press. especially worldwide press.

no my expectations are not "a dreamland". most of the division one head coaches in the country act in a dignified manner besides doing their x's and o's job. rickma is without a doubt an exception. while we all knew he marched to a different beat, i thought that "difference" was more about living in a hotel, eating bar food and clever quips. i never dreamed it was about showing up the university at every opportunity and presenting to the world that what rick wants is what should be.

i am happy we have another over 500 season in the making and that we have a group of youngsters that have the potential to have a couple of big seasons in the next two years. but i would say that there is more to the billikens than just W's. i love the W's. dont get me wrong. but i refuse to believe we cant have it both ways. plenty of schools do.