Okay, Where from Here?

[kshoe]

well i remember the sky indeed was falling after chicago/georgia, but then we had our gimmees again and life was all rainbows and butterflys again and we were headed to the final four.

Roy, give me a break. We all know you hate the buy games but nobody on this board got a false sense of confidence because we were 7-0 in those games. Anybody with half a brain realized that we were 2-5 in non-conference against non buy game opponents.

What gave people confidence was we had a new, hyped up player that was doing even more than what many imagined and we were 3-1, on our way to 4-1 in the 6th best conference in the land. That is why people dared to get excited about this team.

If anything, it was our 9-5 non-conference record that was stopping people from planning elaborate selection Sunday parties.

[MB73]

A lot have overreacted to the Richmond loss.

Blowouts happen, even to good teams, we were ripe for it, and Richmond was fired up with revenge, did not take us lightly this time.

Nice run we had even with close OT losses on the road were a good sign; one blowout does not define us.

Bills 6.5 pt favorites should regroup and romp by 12 over St. Bonnie, get back on track.

[Bill_Ken R]

I agree, what did we expect at the beginning of the year with all freshmen and sophomores? Watch games on TV. Few teams start more than one or two freshmen and sophomores and most teams are led by experienced juniors and seniors. Be patient. I look at it this way......despite the Richmond debacle, this team has improved in leaps and bounds and has exceeded my realistic expectations. I can't wait for the next two years and beyond. I hope these issues with Majerus and the travel and radio do not get us sidetracked. I think we are headed in a very desirable direction after years of nothing much. I am looking on the bright side and think it is justified.

[tourist]

I agree, what did we expect at the beginning of the year with all freshmen and sophomores? Watch games on TV. Few teams start more than one or two freshmen and sophomores and most teams are led by experienced juniors and seniors. Be patient. I look at it this way......despite the Richmond debacle, this team has improved in leaps and bounds and has exceeded my realistic expectations. I can't wait for the next two years and beyond. I hope these issues with Majerus and the travel and radio do not get us sidetracked. I think we are headed in a very desirable direction after years of nothing much. I am looking on the bright side and think it is justified.

+1

[Pick and Roll]

well i remember the sky indeed was falling after chicago/georgia, but then we had our gimmees again and life was all rainbows and butterflys again and we were headed to the final four.

Don't you think the buy games are important this year, especially considering our players are barely out of pull-ups? It would be a daunting season if we played elite teams every game and lost by double digits on a consistent basis. I understand our SOS was lacking a bit this year but we have to learn to crawl before we walk. It is not realistic to think that this year would be ground-breaking. This year, IMO, is a building block to recruiting and setting up structure to this team's future. I think the schedule had some method to the madness which I have learned to understand.

By the way, it would be very difficult to attract quality recruits or keep the decent recruits you have if you consistently lose by double digits (i.e.- see Fordham).

To add to this, the sky has been falling in the 63108 zip code since I can remember. It is a state of mind we are used to as Billiken fans.

[billiken_roy]

Don't you think the buy games are important this year, especially considering our players are barely out of pull-ups? It would be a daunting season if we played elite teams every game and lost by double digits on a consistent basis. I understand our SOS was lacking a bit this year but we have to learn to crawl before we walk. It is not realistic to think that this year would be ground-breaking. This year, IMO, is a building block to recruiting and setting up structure to this team's future. I think the schedule had some method to the madness which I have learned to understand.

By the way, it would be very difficult to attract quality recruits or keep the decent recruits you have if you consistently lose by double digits (i.e.- see Fordham).

To add to this, the sky has been falling in the 63108 zip code since I can remember. It is a state of mind we are used to as Billiken fans.

no one is advocating a top 10 schedule. i never said that. i just detest buy games. i think they are an insult to the fans and i really dont see where they accomplish anything with the team beyond an air of overconfidence and false sense of reality.

it you want to play a tune up or two fine. play a regional rival lesser school like semo or eastern illinois, but then fill in the other games with other mid majors in the 100-200 rpi range. those are games that can be won and will be challenging.

strive to get at least one marque game each year. i dont buy the "no one will play us line." we have been getting marque teams to play us for years and we are supposed to believe that rickma with all his connections and coach relationships cant get any of them to play now? whatever. we as fans deserve better and the players deserve competition to ready them for a good a-10 schedule. i dont believe 6 buy games accomplishes either.

[Clock_Tower]

no one is advocating a top 10 schedule. i never said that. i just detest buy games. i think they are an insult to the fans and i really dont see where they accomplish anything with the team beyond an air of overconfidence and false sense of reality.

it you want to play a tune up or two fine. play a regional rival lesser school like semo or eastern illinois, but then fill in the other games with other mid majors in the 100-200 rpi range. those are games that can be won and will be challenging.

strive to get at least one marque game each year. i dont buy the "no one will play us line." we have been getting marque teams to play us for years and we are supposed to believe that rickma with all his connections and coach relationships cant get any of them to play now? whatever. we as fans deserve better and the players deserve competition to ready them for a good a-10 schedule. i dont believe 6 buy games accomplishes either.

+1

[Cowboy]

no one is advocating a top 10 schedule. i never said that. i just detest buy games. i think they are an insult to the fans and i really dont see where they accomplish anything with the team beyond an air of overconfidence and false sense of reality.

it you want to play a tune up or two fine. play a regional rival lesser school like semo or eastern illinois, but then fill in the other games with other mid majors in the 100-200 rpi range. those are games that can be won and will be challenging.

strive to get at least one marque game each year. i dont buy the "no one will play us line." we have been getting marque teams to play us for years and we are supposed to believe that rickma with all his connections and coach relationships cant get any of them to play now? whatever. we as fans deserve better and the players deserve competition to ready them for a good a-10 schedule. i dont believe 6 buy games accomplishes either.

-i don't feel insulted with this yr's schedule, i hope for more for next season, we'll see

-i predict roy will blow a gasket if our marque game(s) for next season is/are in cancun

-a question, are there top 150 programs (that is where i think we are ) that do not have buy games? not saying if they do it we should also

-there was a post earlier this week (by me) with the thought to eliminate the buy games not for the competition of it but to use that money for charters

-roy posted some time ago about the number of bcs teams he thought was appropriate in the schedule, we beat that number this year, what is the definition of a "marque game"? and if you submit UNC from 2 or 3 yrs ago without identifying the reason we got that game i think the ability for rational thought and discussion on this topic may be passed us

[Scoop]

-i don't feel insulted with this yr's schedule, i hope for more for next season, we'll see

-i predict roy will blow a gasket if our marque game(s) for next season is/are in cancun

-a question, are there top 150 programs (that is where i think we are ) that do not have buy games? not saying if they do it we should also

-there was a post earlier this week (by me) with the thought to eliminate the buy games not for the competition of it but to use that money for charters

-roy posted some time ago about the number of bcs teams he thought was appropriate in the schedule, we beat that number this year, what is the definition of a "marque game"? and if you submit UNC from 2 or 3 yrs ago without identifying the reason we got that game i think the ability for rational thought and discussion on this topic may be passed us

I think next years schedule will be interesting. Playing SIU and MO State on the road will be tough but a chance to build a solid foundation in terms of RPI.

However, I've been to Carbondale the last two visits and watched some ugly basketball.

Side note for Roy...I think we sat together for the last SIU game. Did you go to the game with big Ed?

[Clock_Tower]

-i don't feel insulted with this yr's schedule, i hope for more for next season, we'll see

-i predict roy will blow a gasket if our marque game(s) for next season is/are in cancun

-a question, are there top 150 programs (that is where i think we are ) that do not have buy games? not saying if they do it we should also

-there was a post earlier this week (by me) with the thought to eliminate the buy games not for the competition of it but to use that money for charters

-roy posted some time ago about the number of bcs teams he thought was appropriate in the schedule, we beat that number this year, what is the definition of a "marque game"? and if you submit UNC from 2 or 3 yrs ago without identifying the reason we got that game i think the ability for rational thought and discussion on this topic may be passed us

Cowboy. With all due respect, your expectations for SLU must be quite low. This year's OOC schedule is aweful.

What is a marque game? Well, to quote J. Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." And this year, I don't see it.

Here's a good way to define a marque game: Act like you are giving away (there is no second hand market for SLU tickets) 2 tickets to a SLU OOC game. Or, act you are considering donating two (2) tickets to a SLU OOC game to a charity auction. You know these tickets are not likely to necessarily be going to a hard-care SLU fan or a SLU student or alumni. Instead, you know they are likely to go to a "general St. Louis sports fan." Then, when this general St. Louis Sports fan, responds, "Who is SLU playing?" you then fill in the names of our OOC teams this year. My take is that there would be little interest.

The only saving grace for this year is that we played both MO State and SIUC here at home. Add to that, Nebraska which, of course, is more known for its football than its basketball - but at least it is a BCS school that general sports fans are aware of. Other than that, there are no other OOC home games anywhere close to a "marque game" - and frankly - I wouldn't consider any of them to be a marque game anyway. Is UNC a marque game? Of course. Other teams would be Marquette, ND, GTown, Cincy, Louisville and most of the other Big East teams, Indiana, Purdue, Illini or most of the other Big 10, UCLA, USC, Washington and most other PAC 10 schools. While Gonzaga would be a marque game, schools of interest would include the likes St. Mary's, Santa Clara, Butler, Creighton or Tulsa. I am not expecting UNC every year. Instead of a neutral court, had we played ND and Iowa State at home, it would be a really good home OOC schedule.

Maybe next year things will be different. Maybe RM believes he needed these teams for the youngest team in the NCAA. When you consider we play the better A10 teams at home, when you consider we played both MO State and SIUC at home. When you consider NE at least is a BCS team. When you consider we played a marque team - ND - on a neutral court along with Iowa State (similar but better than NE), this season is tolerable. Next year - and the years after - we need to play AT HOME teams like Boston College, ND, etc.

[willie]

I think next years schedule will be interesting. Playing SIU and MO State on the road will be tough but a chance to build a solid foundation in terms of RPI.

However, I've been to Carbondale the last two visits and watched some ugly basketball.

Side note for Roy...I think we sat together for the last SIU game. Did you go to the game with big Ed?

I hate to say this but I think Roy will become president of the Rick M fan club before we win a game in Carbondale. Maybe Hughes will come back and use up his eligibilty.

[billiken_roy]

-i don't feel insulted with this yr's schedule, i hope for more for next season, we'll see

-i predict roy will blow a gasket if our marque game(s) for next season is/are in cancun

-a question, are there top 150 programs (that is where i think we are ) that do not have buy games? not saying if they do it we should also

-there was a post earlier this week (by me) with the thought to eliminate the buy games not for the competition of it but to use that money for charters

-roy posted some time ago about the number of bcs teams he thought was appropriate in the schedule, we beat that number this year, what is the definition of a "marque game"? and if you submit UNC from 2 or 3 yrs ago without identifying the reason we got that game i think the ability for rational thought and discussion on this topic may be passed us

only if we have to play two duds at home to play in cancun. otherwise i am fine and encouraged by any high level tourney we play in. the format these last two seasons of two duds and then fly out to somewhere else to play the good games i did not appreciate.

i dont care what other top 150 programs do. i just dont like the fact we have the second worst schedule in our conference according to realrpi.com this morning.

every season has a "marque" game of sorts. i want ours to get back to the point where we were playing a home and away series every year with at least one national program. this season i guess our "marque games were nebraska and our MVC matchups. next year i guess it will be georgia and our mvc matchups. while nebraska and georgia are at least bcs schools, they have little basketball glory to give.

as to the "reason" we got to play carolina, that is one instance. it doesnt explain why we have had ucla, iowa, gonzaga, arizona, illinois, mi$$ouri, georgia tech, Purdue, USC, UMass (pre our a-10 days and when umass was on top of the world), vanderbilt, washington, west virginia, kansas, california, washington, kansas state, etc, in the last 20 years.

and if the likes of a tyler hansborough wanting to play a game close to home is the reason to get such a series, then why arent we using scott suggs to solicit a washington game or why didnt we solicit kentucky to get us a harrelson game, or swopshire to get a louisville game, or alex tyus to get a florida game?

dont give our program a pass on this. we pay a lot of money for our season tix and billiken club membership and the quality of schedule should be maintained year after year.

[billiken_roy]

I think next years schedule will be interesting. Playing SIU and MO State on the road will be tough but a chance to build a solid foundation in terms of RPI.

However, I've been to Carbondale the last two visits and watched some ugly basketball.

Side note for Roy...I think we sat together for the last SIU game. Did you go to the game with big Ed?

if you mean the last game at siu, i did sit with "ed". how do you know ed?

[Pick and Roll]

no one is advocating a top 10 schedule. i never said that. i just detest buy games. i think they are an insult to the fans and i really dont see where they accomplish anything with the team beyond an air of overconfidence and false sense of reality.

it you want to play a tune up or two fine. play a regional rival lesser school like semo or eastern illinois, but then fill in the other games with other mid majors in the 100-200 rpi range. those are games that can be won and will be challenging.

strive to get at least one marque game each year. i dont buy the "no one will play us line." we have been getting marque teams to play us for years and we are supposed to believe that rickma with all his connections and coach relationships cant get any of them to play now? whatever. we as fans deserve better and the players deserve competition to ready them for a good a-10 schedule. i dont believe 6 buy games accomplishes either.

Looking at the schedule post-Chicago we played seven games. Two games (one of them not counting here is Rockhurst as a DII which doesn't register) we played opponents that have less than a 200 RPI with EIU being one of them with a 214 RPI (which you name above as an approved regional tune-up game) and UMKC having an RPI of 301. We played BG away which boasts an RPI of 172; we lost this game by 9 points and was not pretty. So, I am deducting from this that you have a problem with us playing Rockhurst and UMKC. Rockhurst is obvious - DII team which no Billiken fan likes; however, it was finals week and probably finals week for alot of other schools who are unwilling to travel at this time due to academics. For this, you probably take what you can get in order to stay home. That leaves UMKC, we didn't exactly smoke them with only a 7 point win. I agree these games are not exciting as fans but we aren't that good and we are really young.

I liken this to starting out academically in college. You don't take organic chemistry your first semester freshman year to endure a challenge. You need to warm up to the pace of college rigors. This may not be very exciting as a student but you aren't doing this for the immediacy of the semester but rather the long-term career of the student. Same thing with basketball. You have to look at the big picture. I am sure RM doesn't care if you are excited as a fan by this schedule but rather is trying to accomplish something more long-term which the team will build on.

I hope we get a game with Duke, UNC, Villanova, or the likes of one of these teams but I don't bank my happiness as a Billiken fan on this.

[Scoop]

if you mean the last game at siu, i did sit with "ed". how do you know ed?

My mother, who knows him through work, introduced us a few years ago. Great guy. We all ate 17th street BBQ pregame. I was the guy who was sick.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Okay, the past two games have been disappointing. But I am still very optimistic about the future. I like this team. Heck it is the youngest in DI this year!

I like the recruits we have but think we really need to get Rob Loe. With him and the other two recruits I think the Bills will be VERY dangerous next year. Yeah, I know that means someone will have to leave. I don't like that but feel someone will look at the situatioin and see they will be the 12th or 13th player on the bench. I do want to see Jeff Reid back. So who leaves to make room for Loe?

Yea, Loe would be a huge add. However, I still have faith in us reaching the elite 8 this year.

[billiken_roy]

Looking at the schedule post-Chicago we played seven games. Two games (one of them not counting here is Rockhurst as a DII which doesn't register) we played opponents that have less than a 200 RPI with EIU being one of them with a 214 RPI (which you name above as an approved regional tune-up game) and UMKC having an RPI of 301. We played BG away which boasts an RPI of 172; we lost this game by 9 points and was not pretty. So, I am deducting from this that you have a problem with us playing Rockhurst and UMKC. Rockhurst is obvious - DII team which no Billiken fan likes; however, it was finals week and probably finals week for alot of other schools who are unwilling to travel at this time due to academics. For this, you probably take what you can get in order to stay home. That leaves UMKC, we didn't exactly smoke them with only a 7 point win. I agree these games are not exciting as fans but we aren't that good and we are really young.

I liken this to starting out academically in college. You don't take organic chemistry your first semester freshman year to endure a challenge. You need to warm up to the pace of college rigors. This may not be very exciting as a student but you aren't doing this for the immediacy of the semester but rather the long-term career of the student. Same thing with basketball. You have to look at the big picture. I am sure RM doesn't care if you are excited as a fan by this schedule but rather is trying to accomplish something more long-term which the team will build on.

I hope we get a game with Duke, UNC, Villanova, or the likes of one of these teams but I don't bank my happiness as a Billiken fan on this.

arkansas fort smith, st ambrose, semo, kennesaw state, mississippi valley state, rockhurst, umkc, eastern. 8 games. of course three are "exhibitions" (most programs only play 2). two more of these eight would have been sufficient. and i would prefer area teams. so we should have picked say st ambrose and rockhurst as our exhibitions, and then played two of semo, umkc and eastern illinois.

sure mississippi valley delta state college and judge kennesaw landis state school were part of the "tourney". but one or the other, play the stupid tourney set up to get your buys or play a couple of buy games. we dont need all of them.

had we taken four of these games and played 4 more 120ish rpi games and won all four, it would be interesting to know where our rpi and sos would be in comparison to what we got now. and for those of you worried we might have lost a game or two then, i say first, i guess i got more confidence in my billikens and second even so, a good game vs the likes of belmont or siu or missouri state is worth a hell of a lot more in evaluating what we got then those buy game opponents and a hell of a lot more entertaining imo.

[billiken_roy]

My mother, who knows him through work, introduced us a few years ago. Great guy. We all ate 17th street BBQ pregame. I was the guy who was sick.

oh ok, i remember. god i love 17th street BBQ.

[Billikenbooster]

I think next years schedule will be interesting. Playing SIU and MO State on the road will be tough but a chance to build a solid foundation in terms of RPI.

However, I've been to Carbondale the last two visits and watched some ugly basketball.

Side note for Roy...I think we sat together for the last SIU game. Did you go to the game with big Ed?

I believe one of the SIU/MoState games will be at home again next year. Adm does not want to play both home/away each year.

Also, don't be surprised if we play one of the Busch Beer Braggin' Rights Game next year, and I don't mean the hoosiers of the hinterland. Apparently the team from the state east of us doesn't seem to mind playing in St Louis twice in one year.

mhg

[billiken_roy]

I believe one of the SIU/MoState games will be at home again next year. Adm does not want to play both home/away each year.

Also, don't be surprised if we play one of the Busch Beer Braggin' Rights Game next year, and I don't mean the hoosiers of the hinterland. Apparently the team from the state east of us doesn't seem to mind playing in St Louis twice in one year.

mhg

that is a great move getting the siu and missouri state games alternating.

bruce weber actually has balls and some integrity so that doesnt surprise me.

[Scoop]

oh ok, i remember. god i love 17th street BBQ.

I know and I couldn't even eat mine.

[willie]

I believe one of the SIU/MoState games will be at home again next year. Adm does not want to play both home/away each year.

Also, don't be surprised if we play one of the Busch Beer Braggin' Rights Game next year, and I don't mean the hoosiers of the hinterland. Apparently the team from the state east of us doesn't seem to mind playing in St Louis twice in one year.

mhg

Would this be our game or a Scottrade game?

[Scoop]

I believe one of the SIU/MoState games will be at home again next year. Adm does not want to play both home/away each year.

Also, don't be surprised if we play one of the Busch Beer Braggin' Rights Game next year, and I don't mean the hoosiers of the hinterland. Apparently the team from the state east of us doesn't seem to mind playing in St Louis twice in one year.

mhg

That would be great!

[Quality Is Job 1]

as to the "reason" we got to play carolina, that is one instance. it doesnt explain why we have had ucla, iowa, gonzaga, arizona, illinois, missouri, georgia tech, Purdue, USC, UMass (pre our a-10 days and when umass was on top of the world), vanderbilt, washington, west virginia, kansas, california, washington, kansas state, etc, in the last 20 years.

and if the likes of a tyler hansbrough wanting to play a game close to home is the reason to get such a series, then why arent we using scott suggs to solicit a washington game or why didnt we solicit kentucky to get us a harrelson game, or swopshire to get a louisville game, or alex tyus to get a florida game?

Not every coach promises recruits that they'll schedule a series against a team in or near their home towns.

(How did you manage to capitalize Purdue?)

[kshoe]

Not every coach promises recruits that they'll schedule a series against a team in or near their home towns.

(How did you manage to capitalize Purdue?)

I'm still trying to figure out why Roy thinks our non-conference record led to false expectations for people. If anything, our 3-3 record in the A-10 has been better than what people thought we'd be given 4 of the first 6 were on the road.

As to the alternating of MSU and SIU....that may sound great but there is no way either of them will agree because it would effectively be skipping one of their home games so it seems unlikely to me unless we plan on not playing one of them next year.

I think Roy's constant harping on the scheduling is tiring and I realy don't have a huge problem the last two years given the youth of this team. I also think his belief that all we have to do is call up the Kentuckys of the world and they'll gladly accept a home and home is ridiculous.

That being said, I do believe that next year we need to challenge ourselves much more during the non-con. If you want to be an at-large candidate we need to play a tough schedule that can't be solely based on a couple games in Cancun. If you lose those you are up a creek. We can still have 5 or so buy games but we need to play about 9 games against BCS or mid-major teams. This year we played only 7 of those and went 2-5. Next year we need to go 7-2 to be in position for an at-large.