Should this Rivalry End?

[Cowboy]

A must-schedule, IMO. They should have been on the schedule this year.

we can even play siue there and go to fast eddie's before and/or after

or we can play them at Chaifetz and go to fast eddies before and/or after

either way is good

[billiken_roy]

imo our schedule should be loaded with all the area d-1 schools. no way i would cut out siu. cut out the 6 buy games and only schedule from mi$$ouri, Illinois, semo, missouri state, siu, siu-E, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois only after going through those options should we consider the likes of our upcoming games.

[Box and Won]

imo our schedule should be loaded with all the area d-1 schools. no way i would cut out siu. cut out the 6 buy games and only schedule from mi$$ouri, Illinois, semo, missouri state, siu, siu-E, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois only after going through those options should we consider the likes of our upcoming games.

I'd like to see the UMKC Roos back on the schedule as well. I think we even played home-and-home with them when I was in school.

[Cowboy]

imo our schedule should be loaded with all the area d-1 schools. no way i would cut out siu. cut out the 6 buy games and only schedule from mi$$ouri, Illinois, semo, missouri state, siu, siu-E, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois only after going through those options should we consider the likes of our upcoming games.

-i wonder do you have to pay a WILL or EILL to play them? i guess if all the games are in stl we would

-but setting up 2 or 3 for 1's with a few these seems a way to go, staggered away games of course

-then get the Gtwn, Marq, Memphis, Lvlle's to wrap it up

-not sure the rpi of local schedule would be much different than this yr's, but the opponents would be semi-local

[billiken_roy]

-i wonder do you have to pay a WILL or EILL to play them? i guess if all the games are in stl we would

-but setting up 2 or 3 for 1's with a few these seems a way to go, staggered away games of course

-then get the Gtwn, Marq, Memphis, Lvlle's to wrap it up

-not sure the rpi of local schedule would be much different than this yr's, but the opponents would be semi-local

that isnt a bad thought. play 2 for 1's in lieu of buy fees with the likes of western ill, umkc, eastern illinois and semo. if i was the ad at those programs i would consider that because we would likely be their super bowl non conference home game. i would think not having to pay buy fees would likely be a huge boost to the slu athletic dept checking acct.

[rchif0]

Did it occur to anybody that Valley teams would always lose on away games if they played such horrible basketball that was always so full of fouls? As in.. for example, SIU would never do well in exempt tournaments because they'd always foul out. Some teams play physical games. That's just how it is. It should be part of the SLU game plan to counter that physicality, not blame it. Other teams have beat SIU at home before. Other teams have beat MVC teams at home, too.

[kshoe]

Did it occur to anybody that Valley teams would always lose on away games if they played such horrible basketball that was always so full of fouls? As in.. for example, SIU would never do well in exempt tournaments because they'd always foul out. Some teams play physical games. That's just how it is. It should be part of the SLU game plan to counter that physicality, not blame it. Other teams have beat SIU at home before. Other teams have beat MVC teams at home, too.

I think the premise of this whole thread is pretty silly. Of course the rivalry should continue. SIU will get their asses handed to them next year in St. Louis just like we always get our asses handed to us down there. You can count on it.

That being said, there may be something to the foul theory that many have on here. Last night during the telecast they said only 6 teams have won down there in the past 100 games. Thats 6% and is much lower than a team of SIU's quality should have...if the refs let everything go when they are at home then naturally they are going to win a higher percentage of the games then they otherwise would.

[troutangler]

It is junk basketball. Basketball is a non contact sport. The way the valley plays it is wrong and I don't like watching it.

Refs do work for conferences. There are refs who primarily do valley games. I would term these as valley refs.

You think it's junk because your team just got beat by 16 in Carbondale last night.

Referees are not employed by conferences. They are independent contractors. Just because they officiate numerous games in a given conference doesn't mean they "work for" that conference, no matter how you "term" them.

I would bet quite a bit of money that 99% of you have never refereed a real basketball game in your lives. Blaming referees is what parents of 6th grade teams do....You guys are in good company.

[billiken_roy]

Blaming referees is what parents of 6th grade teams do....You guys are in good company.

that's pretty easy to say when you root for a team that gets away with the crap that the saluki's do.

[saluki762]

that's pretty easy to say when you root for a team that gets away with the crap that the saluki's do.

I may be wrong but I believe troutangler is a Missouri State fan.

[ColProd]

You guys need to stop blaming the refs. Watch the game again from a unbiased point of view. It was called just as ###### both ways. If you want to get picky about every call that went in SIU's favor, then I'll start listing off just as many calls that went in SLU's favor, including going out of bounds numerous times and walking 2-3 steps right underneath the basket next to an official. Overall the game was called fairly. It just wasn't called well. I'm telling you not as a SIU fan, but as a basketball fan, if every foul was called, it would have been the same ratio of SLU to SIU fouls.

For whoever was commenting about the Arena. The renovations are supposed to be done around 2010 if I remember correctly. Personally, I like the "old school" feel that the Arena has, but I'm excited for the renovations.

As far as your freshman go, whoever is saying that SLU's frosh. class is better than SIU's needs a reality check. Our young guys have so much talent, it's crazy. If you don't believe me, well, just watch the game again. Sure they still have a lot to learn, but their level of talent is through the roof. Now, SLU's recruitment class is decent by SLU standards. But that's just it, by SLU standards. Where scoring 20+ points a game is an accomplishment.

For those of you wanting to end the "rivalry" because of this one game, I think your own fan base would agree with me that this has to be a horrible idea. Not only does it fill in a spot on the schedule, but it allows for a bit of a recruiting battle in the St. Louis area, which is always fun to follow. But in the end, we both know where the good players are going though. SIU BABY!

With all that said, good luck the rest of the year. Keep the games over 20 points and you should be fine. See you next year!

[jimbofive]

You guys need to stop blaming the refs. Watch the game again from a unbiased point of view. It was called just as ###### both ways. If you want to get picky about every call that went in SIU's favor, then I'll start listing off just as many calls that went in SLU's favor, including going out of bounds numerous times and walking 2-3 steps right underneath the basket next to an official. Overall the game was called fairly. It just wasn't called well. I'm telling you not as a SIU fan, but as a basketball fan, if every foul was called, it would have been the same ratio of SLU to SIU fouls.

For whoever was commenting about the Arena. The renovations are supposed to be done around 2010 if I remember correctly. Personally, I like the "old school" feel that the Arena has, but I'm excited for the renovations.

As far as your freshman go, whoever is saying that SLU's frosh. class is better than SIU's needs a reality check. Our young guys have so much talent, it's crazy. If you don't believe me, well, just watch the game again. Sure they still have a lot to learn, but their level of talent is through the roof. Now, SLU's recruitment class is decent by SLU standards. But that's just it, by SLU standards. Where scoring 20+ points a game is an accomplishment.

For those of you wanting to end the "rivalry" because of this one game, I think your own fan base would agree with me that this has to be a horrible idea. Not only does it fill in a spot on the schedule, but it allows for a bit of a recruiting battle in the St. Louis area, which is always fun to follow. But in the end, we both know where the good players are going though. SIU BABY!

With all that said, good luck the rest of the year. Keep the games over 20 points and you should be fine. See you next year!

Dammit.

[jjray]

The funny thing to me about this thread is that other teams used to complain about SLU's physical play not too far in the distant past when we were less skilled and more of a grit team. Oh, the days of Chris Heinrick planted in the middle of the defensive lane like Lurch the Butler. Keep the SIU game.

[ACE]

You guys need to stop blaming the refs. Watch the game again from a unbiased point of view. It was called just as ###### both ways. If you want to get picky about every call that went in SIU's favor, then I'll start listing off just as many calls that went in SLU's favor, including going out of bounds numerous times and walking 2-3 steps right underneath the basket next to an official. Overall the game was called fairly. It just wasn't called well. I'm telling you not as a SIU fan, but as a basketball fan, if every foul was called, it would have been the same ratio of SLU to SIU fouls.

For whoever was commenting about the Arena. The renovations are supposed to be done around 2010 if I remember correctly. Personally, I like the "old school" feel that the Arena has, but I'm excited for the renovations.

As far as your freshman go, whoever is saying that SLU's frosh. class is better than SIU's needs a reality check. Our young guys have so much talent, it's crazy. If you don't believe me, well, just watch the game again. Sure they still have a lot to learn, but their level of talent is through the roof. Now, SLU's recruitment class is decent by SLU standards. But that's just it, by SLU standards. Where scoring 20+ points a game is an accomplishment.

For those of you wanting to end the "rivalry" because of this one game, I think your own fan base would agree with me that this has to be a horrible idea. Not only does it fill in a spot on the schedule, but it allows for a bit of a recruiting battle in the St. Louis area, which is always fun to follow. But in the end, we both know where the good players are going though. SIU BABY!

With all that said, good luck the rest of the year. Keep the games over 20 points and you should be fine. See you next year!

And your team lost last year to the team that scored 20 points With Majerus on board, I'm not worried about recruitng battles with the likes of SIU.

[MusicCityBilliken]

The funny thing to me about this thread is that other teams used to complain about SLU's physical play not too far in the distant past when we were less skilled and more of a grit team. Oh, the days of Chris Heinrick planted in the middle of the defensive lane like Lurch the Butler. Keep the SIU game.

When we had Heinrich and Tatem guarding the middle we OWNED the paint . Even against other physical teams like Cincy and Marquette. That what got us in the NCAA's in 2000.

[GOSLU68]

The rivalry has been a home-court dominated series because of the way the games are called. In C-Dale, the Salukis and rough and tumble the Bills without worrying about too many whistles. Back in St. Lou, it's been hard to stop Tommie, Kevin, Marquee when you cannot clutch and grab them for 40 minutes. Fouls are actually called. That's why the home team wins most of the time. I suspect the Billikens will win next year at Chaifetz.

bad boyz for life

I always look forward to the games in St. Louis and dread what our kids are going to get in the way of a

mugging in Carbondale. The refs usually mask what they have do by evening the fouls after the game is

bent in favor of the home team at Carbondale. That being said we seem to have lost any semblance of

refs we can even recognize when we play at the Chaifetz. I remember the old Hightower crews and we

knew what the refs would call and what they would let us get away with it is much like establishing the

strike zone by the homeplate umpire in baseball if all other things are equal for both teams

[Clock_Tower]

The refs are bad at Cardondale. So what. Muggings go on in the Big 10 every game and elsewhere in the major conferences - some, though, more than others. We know that. Here's anothing thing we know, or should know, our recent teams have played very soft. Finesse is nice but we lack power and strength - 2 qualities you don't get from Freshmen. On top of it, KL is tough but b/c of his size/position, cannot play the role of Chris Heinrich. TL is still thin and not really that strong (remember this is his 5th year post high school) although he has excellent athletic ability and skills. BE, so far, has been a bust. Also, without Junior and Sophomore (PE doesn't count IMO) classes, we will be quite dependent upon a other team matchups and the refs.

To me, as bad as our recruiting has been under Romar and Brad, the real disappointment for me has been the lack of toughness. Spoon recruited tough guys who seemed to enjoy the weight room -- Jeff Harris, Chris Heinrich, J. Tatum, Eric Jones ... even Carlos McCaulley. Since then, our guys have not increased in muscle size and strength. Don't get me wrong, not every player on basketball team should be muscle bound (Marquee Perry) but I do think IV, BH ... were both soft. Chris Sloan and Luke Meyer were tough and strong for their size and themselves but neither was a real stong presence for the team. I sure hope things work out (no pun intended) with our new strength coach and that the freshmen really buy into it so that our team becomes a physically strong and tough that can win - requires both strength and finesse.

[billiken_roy]

The refs are bad at Cardondale. So what. Muggings go on in the Big 10 every game and elsewhere in the major conferences - some, though, more than others. We know that. Here's anothing thing we know, or should know, our recent teams have played very soft. Finesse is nice but we lack power and strength - 2 qualities you don't get from Freshmen. On top of it, KL is tough but b/c of his size/position, cannot play the role of Chris Heinrich. TL is still thin and not really that strong (remember this is his 5th year post high school) although he has excellent athletic ability and skills. BE, so far, has been a bust. Also, without Junior and Sophomore (PE doesn't count IMO) classes, we will be quite dependent upon a other team matchups and the refs.

To me, as bad as our recruiting has been under Romar and Brad, the real disappointment for me has been the lack of toughness. Spoon recruited tough guys who seemed to enjoy the weight room -- Jeff Harris, Chris Heinrich, J. Tatum, Eric Jones ... even Carlos McCaulley. Since then, our guys have not increased in muscle size and strength. Don't get me wrong, not every player on basketball team should be muscle bound (Marquee Perry) but I do think IV, BH ... were both soft. Chris Sloan and Luke Meyer were tough and strong for their size and themselves but neither was a real stong presence for the team. I sure hope things work out (no pun intended) with our new strength coach and that the freshmen really buy into it so that our team becomes a physically strong and tough that can win - requires both strength and finesse.

good post clock, however i would say that lisch, meyer and liddell have been big weight room clients. but three kids out of the last five seasons, isnt much to brag about you are correct.

what intrigues me about the freshmen is the potential ASSUMING they hit the weights. especially thompson and reed.

[Westy03]

good post clock, however i would say that lisch, meyer and liddell have been big weight room clients. but three kids out of the last five seasons, isnt much to brag about you are correct.

what intrigues me about the freshmen is the potential ASSUMING they hit the weights. especially thompson and reed.

If they dont then Majerus will find players that will. I cant imagine what kind of player Willie will be if he puts on 30-40 lbs by his junior/senior year.

[jimbofive]

good post clock, however i would say that lisch, meyer and liddell have been big weight room clients. but three kids out of the last five seasons, isnt much to brag about you are correct.

what intrigues me about the freshmen is the potential ASSUMING they hit the weights. especially thompson and reed.

Eckerle looks a bit swole these days. He and Kevin used to be about the same size, but Paul is definitely bigger now.

[ColProd]

And your team lost last year to the team that scored 20 points With Majerus on board, I'm not worried about recruitng battles with the likes of SIU.

Just because our guys couldn't finish worth a crap last year. We lost so many games in the closing minutes! Talking about frustrating! Still can't match your frustration for having a record like that.

As for recruiting battles, they could be a little more interesting with Majerus as a coach, but I don't see much of a battle for the top recruits in the area right now. SLU has a lot of improving to do before true recruiting battles can start. A conference title and a couple of NCAA appearances would do wonders for your recruitment, it's just a matter of getting there. Your current batch of freshman are a decent start considering SLU's history, but there is still a ways to go. I wasn't too impressed with Thompson or Cassity though. Were they having off nights or is that average for them? I know Thompson has yet to have a good/big game.

[kevinfootes]

good post clock, however i would say that lisch, meyer and liddell have been big weight room clients. but three kids out of the last five seasons, isnt much to brag about you are correct.

what intrigues me about the freshmen is the potential ASSUMING they hit the weights. especially thompson and reed.

BH actually worked pretty hard in the weight room. I just don't think he has the body type that's going to look like Lou Ferrigno (or Justin Tatum for that matter) no matter how much he lifted. Our program was so pathetic that Husack was working out at Hammer Bodies on his own dime. I'd call that a pretty good commitment.

[KC Billikens Fan]

Someone said SIU basketball was "junk". It's such junk they make the NCAA tourney 2 out of every 3 years.

What about SLU basketball? We have been talking about these boring Billikens 50 point games for several years now. Even that 46-45 win over Charlotte a few years ago was boring.

Keep the series alive.

[GoBills]

Just because our guys couldn't finish worth a crap last year. We lost so many games in the closing minutes! Talking about frustrating! Still can't match your frustration for having a record like that.

As for recruiting battles, they could be a little more interesting with Majerus as a coach, but I don't see much of a battle for the top recruits in the area right now. SLU has a lot of improving to do before true recruiting battles can start. A conference title and a couple of NCAA appearances would do wonders for your recruitment, it's just a matter of getting there. Your current batch of freshman are a decent start considering SLU's history, but there is still a ways to go. I wasn't too impressed with Thompson or Cassity though. Were they having off nights or is that average for them? I know Thompson has yet to have a good/big game.

Coach Majerus is not worried about SIU. His sights are set much higher, like having SLU become the next Xavier or Gonzaga, not Carbondale. Carbondale has done a nice job considering their less than ideal location and facilities, but Coach Majerus is finding players from all over. A second top Australian will likely sign in the spring. We got it handed to us this year, but I am confident the Bills will beat the dogs again at home next year.

[davidnark]

A second top Australian will likely sign in the spring.

Is he still visiting this month? Can you provide the kid's name?