Fan since 1965. Can't believe the criticism of Majerus

[Dungeon Yankee]

I have been a Billiken basketball fan since 1965. I started to attend games when they were played at the old Kiel Auditorium. Except for a few years here and there, Billiken BB has been a classic example of futility and mediocrity. I can remember when the crouds were numbered in the low hundreds. You could buy a ticket and have your pick of most any midcourt seat. When they hired Rich Grawer, rumor had it that it was either him or Division 3. Grawer literally saved Billiken BB. I hated to see Grawer get fired but Spoonball was something special. Although BS seemed like a nice guy, Billiken BB was headed down hill. And then something miraculous happened, one of the most highly regarded names in college coaching decided to become our coach. It was like a dream when I first heard of the possibility. Here was a guy regarded by his peers as one of the best in the business, who had a reputation of making average players good and good players great and who got the most out of his talent. Here was a guy who took mid major Utah to the championship game and almost won it. Here was a guy who put guys in the pros who weren't highly recruited. Here was Rick Majerus with his .741 win percentage and he had decided to became our coach. This fact is still hard to believe. The magnitude of his hire has yet to sink in. Billiken BB has a chance to became something special. We have a chance to became a player on the big stage, a chance to be relevant in big time college basketball.

And then I started reading some of the posts on this board criticizing him for, among other things, his openess and frankness about the players. Instead of the "same ole same ole" you get from most college coaches, here was a coach who actually gave you honest answers to questions. What a refreshing concept- honest answers to questions. Majerus has been criticized for other things too, and I'm glad that the majority of the knowledgable posters have defended Majerus on these issues.

The bottom line is that we have to give this guy a chance. If he can't do it at SLU, I'm afraid nobody will. This is the last chance many of us will ever have to see Billiken BB rise to the level of elite status. I can't believe I just typed "elite status" and "Billiken BB" in the same sentence. I get goose bumps just thinking about it. If Majerus can stay healthy, we are in for the ride of our lives. Buckle up!

[davidnark]

We feel your pain Yankee. Earlier today, Bernie Miklasz summed up the issue on his forum today when he stated:

Tough, unpleasant work ... but someone has to do it.

the CYC culture is great -- for 8th grade boys and girls teams.

but not for SLU if SLU really wants to compete at a high level.

--B

You can't expect to play with the big boys and get hyper-sensitive about the tough stuff that goes with it. Majerus is here to fix a long-underpeforming program even if the necessary culture change offends some of the long-time fans of the "old way."

[dewey33]

We feel your pain Yankee. Earlier today, Bernie Miklasz summed up the issue on his forum today when he stated:

You can't expect to play with the big boys and get hyper-sensitive about the tough stuff that goes with it. Majerus is here to fix a long-underpeforming program even if the necessary culture change offends some of the long-time fans of the "old way."

When you talk tough about the players, you always have that to fall back on if you aren't successful.

Let's hope SLU acheives the success you are all so certain of...then the end will justify the means.

BTW, Charlie Weis was treated like the next Knute Rockne this time last year.....

[Billiken75]

Majerus has earned all the respect he gets and is due - Weis has not.

[papal]

Majerus has earned all the respect he gets and is due - Weis has not.

[/ In the early 1960's I used to cover the Bills for the U News-days of John Bennington & Buddy Brehmer(ugh!). As Rush Limbaugh would say in response to Dungeon Yankee--multi DITTOS!!

[GOSLU68]

I have been a Billiken basketball fan since 1965.

Me too maybe just a few years longer.

As a kid I would listen to the radio for the Hawks and Bills games and read about the Bills and the best times had to be Ed Mc Cauley's days when he was an All American and the top coaches had to be Eddie Hickey who took us to the NCAA's in Kansas City the year Kansas won with Wilt the Stilt, I think. but I was a grade schooler then so that is pretty far back. I may not be too accurate about dates and circumstance. Next in Line was John Bennington who left us and took a recruit or two to University of Illinois in 1965. Bennington really had us poised to win the MVC but he capitalized for himself when the opening came and he took the best of what Collinsville had to offer later even though he was no longer coaching there. Kids from our area caught on we were not really big time anymore. We didn't completely fold with Buddy Brehmer as head coach. We did become mediocre. After his tenure the school decided to save money and was worse than Divison Three for several years until your Grawer miracle. Fortunately, for us the man who beat Grawer with the same system could be attracted from the Ozarks before MO State had much of a budget Spoon saved us from the embarassing demise of Grawer. Spoon and Romar's recruitment pretty much set us up to be close to the big state money programs.

It is nice to see Rick Majerus has a feel for the Jesuit's and Liberal Arts and Science Colleges.

Men's basketball can be a real attraction for schools with enrollments of 10,000

[bg]

Bennigton was never the head coach at UI. I don't think he was ever an assistant there, either. If I recall correctly (not always the case per my wife), he left SLU for Marquette.

[davidlee]

Bennigton was never the head coach at UI. I don't think he was ever an assistant there, either. If I recall correctly (not always the case per my wife), he left SLU for Marquette.

Bennington went to Michigan State from SLU.

[slufanskip]

Bennigton was never the head coach at UI. I don't think he was ever an assistant there, either. If I recall correctly (not always the case per my wife), he left SLU for Marquette.

seems your wife is right.

[gister]

We feel your pain Yankee. Earlier today, Bernie Miklasz summed up the issue on his forum today when he stated:

You can't expect to play with the big boys and get hyper-sensitive about the tough stuff that goes with it. Majerus is here to fix a long-underpeforming program even if the necessary culture change offends some of the long-time fans of the "old way."

I thought BM, on his radio show a few weeks ago, was lamenting how things had not turned out the way he expected with Majerus's hiring and that the buzz had left the program largely because of the way Majerus treats the press. Has he changed his tune for some reason?

[davidnark]

I thought BM, on his radio show a few weeks ago, was lamenting how things had not turned out the way he expected with Majerus's hiring and that the buzz had left the program largely because of the way Majerus treats the press. Has he changed his tune for some reason?

A few weeks ago I heard Bernie mostly defending Rick on his radio show when Randy K and Strickland were complaining about the lack of buzz and the limited exposure Rick was offering. Bernie was basically saying that it was going to take a little time and all of the complaints about Rick's limited access will become moot once he has the program turned around.

[ACE]

The latest from Bernie on Majerus

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.p...84&start=48

[big al]

I have been a Billiken basketball fan since 1965. I started to attend games when they were played at the old Kiel Auditorium. Except for a few years here and there, Billiken BB has been a classic example of futility and mediocrity. I can remember when the crouds were numbered in the low hundreds. You could buy a ticket and have your pick of most any midcourt seat. When they hired Rich Grawer, rumor had it that it was either him or Division 3. Grawer literally saved Billiken BB. I hated to see Grawer get fired but Spoonball was something special. Although BS seemed like a nice guy, Billiken BB was headed down hill. And then something miraculous happened, one of the most highly regarded names in college coaching decided to become our coach. It was like a dream when I first heard of the possibility. Here was a guy regarded by his peers as one of the best in the business, who had a reputation of making average players good and good players great and who got the most out of his talent. Here was a guy who took mid major Utah to the championship game and almost won it. Here was a guy who put guys in the pros who weren't highly recruited. Here was Rick Majerus with his .741 win percentage and he had decided to became our coach. This fact is still hard to believe. The magnitude of his hire has yet to sink in. Billiken BB has a chance to became something special. We have a chance to became a player on the big stage, a chance to be relevant in big time college basketball.

And then I started reading some of the posts on this board criticizing him for, among other things, his openess and frankness about the players. Instead of the "same ole same ole" you get from most college coaches, here was a coach who actually gave you honest answers to questions. What a refreshing concept- honest answers to questions. Majerus has been criticized for other things too, and I'm glad that the majority of the knowledgable posters have defended Majerus on these issues.

The bottom line is that we have to give this guy a chance. If he can't do it at SLU, I'm afraid nobody will. This is the last chance many of us will ever have to see Billiken BB rise to the level of elite status. I can't believe I just typed "elite status" and "Billiken BB" in the same sentence. I get goose bumps just thinking about it. If Majerus can stay healthy, we are in for the ride of our lives. Buckle up!

[Billikan]

I have been a Billiken basketball fan since 1965. I started to attend games when they were played at the old Kiel Auditorium. Except for a few years here and there, Billiken BB has been a classic example of futility and mediocrity. I can remember when the crouds were numbered in the low hundreds. You could buy a ticket and have your pick of most any midcourt seat. When they hired Rich Grawer, rumor had it that it was either him or Division 3. Grawer literally saved Billiken BB. I hated to see Grawer get fired but Spoonball was something special. Although BS seemed like a nice guy, Billiken BB was headed down hill. And then something miraculous happened, one of the most highly regarded names in college coaching decided to become our coach. It was like a dream when I first heard of the possibility. Here was a guy regarded by his peers as one of the best in the business, who had a reputation of making average players good and good players great and who got the most out of his talent. Here was a guy who took mid major Utah to the championship game and almost won it. Here was a guy who put guys in the pros who weren't highly recruited. Here was Rick Majerus with his .741 win percentage and he had decided to became our coach. This fact is still hard to believe. The magnitude of his hire has yet to sink in. Billiken BB has a chance to became something special. We have a chance to became a player on the big stage, a chance to be relevant in big time college basketball.

And then I started reading some of the posts on this board criticizing him for, among other things, his openess and frankness about the players. Instead of the "same ole same ole" you get from most college coaches, here was a coach who actually gave you honest answers to questions. What a refreshing concept- honest answers to questions. Majerus has been criticized for other things too, and I'm glad that the majority of the knowledgable posters have defended Majerus on these issues.

The bottom line is that we have to give this guy a chance. If he can't do it at SLU, I'm afraid nobody will. This is the last chance many of us will ever have to see Billiken BB rise to the level of elite status. I can't believe I just typed "elite status" and "Billiken BB" in the same sentence. I get goose bumps just thinking about it. If Majerus can stay healthy, we are in for the ride of our lives. Buckle up!

Believe it or not I started as a fan in the 50s when as a kid my dad took me to games. He had played at SLU and he turned me into an avid fan--anybody remember the Nordmanns--huge guys for their time.

The roller coaster of SLU basketball has been exciting, depressing and perplexing. I have said many times that the school denying Upchurch admission when he was qualified set the program back more than anything else that ever happened. If he had come in to play with Bonner, Gray and Douglas this team would have gone to multiple NCAA tournaments and who knows what might have happened with recruiting. As it was, Grawer's last year was a great recruiting year that disintegrated into a mess. Spoon ultimately took the Grawer recruits and gave us some exciting basketball and a top 20 ranking. But Spoon may have been the least interested recruiter we ever had. The Larry team had one great year because we had Larry. Spoon then became disheartened when Larry left early.

We had some highlights with Romar and Soderberg but again it was a roller coaster. of course, every one of those coaches had to deal with very limited resources, a lousy on campus practice facility, a limited use venue for games, etc.

Each one of those coaches was criticized, on this board and in the public, sometimes viciously with incredible insults. Yet they each persevered hoping that they could move forward.

Now we have an incredible committment financially to the Billiken basketball program with a fantastic new arena and a million dollar coach with highly paid assistants. This turnaround is amazing and something I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

So now we have a new big time "hall of fame" coach that everyone was extremely happy to see come to SLU. The future looks very bright. Our recruits look good and there is hope for more even for next year. However, this years team has played terrible on offense in the first half of every game. I, for one, hoped for more this year and we may still play better. I support the coach and the players and the school. I do not like the fact that the coach feels the need to rip his players in the media. Many nationally successful coaches--coaches that have had more success than RM--handle these issues behind closed doors.

Yet some on this board seem to think that it is now heresy to say anything critical about this coach and that we have to accept everything he does even if we do not agree. That is so different every year that this board has been in existance.

[Dungeon Yankee]

Billikan wrote that "yet some...think it is now heresy to say anything critical about the coach and that we have to accept everything he does even if we do not agree"

I understand what you are saying. However, I am not trying to chill your free speech rights or call you a heretic if you don't accept everything Majerus does. I was trying to make the point that we have to give Majerus a chance. It is unrealistic to think he is going to magically and instantaneously turn this listing ship around. It may take time. At Ball State, he went 13-13 his first year before winning 30 games his second year. Majerus himself had said things may not change here until his third year. I had been reading the posts on this board for quite a while before deciding to make a statement. I just felt some of the posters were going overboard and being overly critical in as much as he has only coached the team for 13 games. Plus, nobody is perfect. Majerus has his ways and some of his actions are going to rub some people the wrong way. But his track record speaks for itself. He hasn't been out of coaching that long to have forgotten how to win. We need to give the guy some elbow room.

[davidnark]

Yet some on this board seem to think that it is now heresy to say anything critical about this coach and that we have to accept everything he does even if we do not agree.

Interesting statement, particularly coming from a poster who lived on that soapbox for the last five season.

[brianstl]

I think Billikan is a heretic.

[Billikan]

Interesting statement, particularly coming from a poster who lived on that soapbox for the last five season.

So you, who have been relentlesslly brutal in the criticism of our former coach now say that no one can criticize our coach in any way? Can anyone spell hypocrite?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Peace! Come on, you all, let's bury the hatchet. This argument comes from two different camps of supporters of Billikens basketball; it's not supporters vs. detractors. The season hasn't even reached its halfway point; the jury is out. It could be a lousy team that struggles to win a single conference game (like Charlie Spoonhour's first Billiken squad), or it could be a team that marches to an NCAA Tournament berth (like Lorenzo Romar's first Billiken squad), or it could finish anywhere in between (like Brad Soderberg's first Billiken squad, which played in the NIT -- I haven't followed college basketball long enough to know what Rich Grawer's first Billiken squad did). But half of the season isn't enough data upon which to base an assessment of the 2007-08 season, and not even the entire season will be enough data upon which to base an assessment of Rick Majerus's tenure as SLU's head coach (unless he leaves after this year, which I doubt). Let's just enjoy the season, please!

Sure, there have been some things that have raised some eyebrows, but I doubt ANY situation is perfect, and it's still fair to gather all of the relevant evidence before concluding. Not all of the exhibits have been presented and not all of the statements have been made until December 2008, at the earliest. By then we'll know the decisions of current players (and their coaches) regarding the internal culture of the team, but as of now, no one has publicly expressed a desire to transfer out and there are some respectable recruits on the way.

We certainly should continue to express our opinions, whether pleased or displeased, about how things are going this season, but all of the bickering and posturing and drawing lines in the sand is premature. When you're halfway through a suspenseful book, it's not time to sit down and write the review.

[bg]

almost always.............

[Clock_Tower]

Peace! Come on, you all, let's bury the hatchet. This argument comes from two different camps of supporters of Billikens basketball; it's not supporters vs. detractors. The season hasn't even reached its halfway point; the jury is out. It could be a lousy team that struggles to win a single conference game (like Charlie Spoonhour's first Billiken squad), or it could be a team that marches to an NCAA Tournament berth (like Lorenzo Romar's first Billiken squad), or it could finish anywhere in between (like Brad Soderberg's first Billiken squad, which played in the NIT -- I haven't followed college basketball long enough to know what Rich Grawer's first Billiken squad did). But half of the season isn't enough data upon which to base an assessment of the 2007-08 season, and not even the entire season will be enough data upon which to base an assessment of Rick Majerus's tenure as SLU's head coach (unless he leaves after this year, which I doubt). Let's just enjoy the season, please!

Sure, there have been some things that have raised some eyebrows, but I doubt ANY situation is perfect, and it's still fair to gather all of the relevant evidence before concluding. Not all of the exhibits have been presented and not all of the statements have been made until December 2008, at the earliest. By then we'll know the decisions of current players (and their coaches) regarding the internal culture of the team, but as of now, no one has publicly expressed a desire to transfer out and there are some respectable recruits on the way.

We certainly should continue to express our opinions, whether pleased or displeased, about how things are going this season, but all of the bickering and posturing and drawing lines in the sand is premature. When you're halfway through a suspenseful book, it's not time to sit down and write the review.

Unfortunately for St. Rich (truly the saviour of Billiken basketball), he ended his SLU career the same way it started - both seasons with records of 5-23.

Can anyone remember any more details but I recall listening to a game Rich's first year in which we started the game with only 6 players. Then, a player got hurt and we were down to 5. Then, a player got called for his 5th foul and we actually finished the game with 4 players against their 5. From the radio broadcast, we played a 2-2 in which we packed the lane.

Billikan. Totally agree on the Upchurch fiasco.

[kevinfootes]

I have been a Billiken basketball fan since 1965. I started to attend games when they were played at the old Kiel Auditorium. Except for a few years here and there, Billiken BB has been a classic example of futility and mediocrity. I can remember when the crouds were numbered in the low hundreds. You could buy a ticket and have your pick of most any midcourt seat. When they hired Rich Grawer, rumor had it that it was either him or Division 3. Grawer literally saved Billiken BB. I hated to see Grawer get fired but Spoonball was something special. Although BS seemed like a nice guy, Billiken BB was headed down hill. And then something miraculous happened, one of the most highly regarded names in college coaching decided to become our coach. It was like a dream when I first heard of the possibility. Here was a guy regarded by his peers as one of the best in the business, who had a reputation of making average players good and good players great and who got the most out of his talent. Here was a guy who took mid major Utah to the championship game and almost won it. Here was a guy who put guys in the pros who weren't highly recruited. Here was Rick Majerus with his .741 win percentage and he had decided to became our coach. This fact is still hard to believe. The magnitude of his hire has yet to sink in. Billiken BB has a chance to became something special. We have a chance to became a player on the big stage, a chance to be relevant in big time college basketball.

And then I started reading some of the posts on this board criticizing him for, among other things, his openess and frankness about the players. Instead of the "same ole same ole" you get from most college coaches, here was a coach who actually gave you honest answers to questions. What a refreshing concept- honest answers to questions. Majerus has been criticized for other things too, and I'm glad that the majority of the knowledgable posters have defended Majerus on these issues.

The bottom line is that we have to give this guy a chance. If he can't do it at SLU, I'm afraid nobody will. This is the last chance many of us will ever have to see Billiken BB rise to the level of elite status. I can't believe I just typed "elite status" and "Billiken BB" in the same sentence. I get goose bumps just thinking about it. If Majerus can stay healthy, we are in for the ride of our lives. Buckle up!

The "miracle" is that Biondi decided to pony up and pay for a good coach.

[kevinfootes]

Believe it or not I started as a fan in the 50s when as a kid my dad took me to games. He had played at SLU and he turned me into an avid fan--anybody remember the Nordmanns--huge guys for their time.

The roller coaster of SLU basketball has been exciting, depressing and perplexing. I have said many times that the school denying Upchurch admission when he was qualified set the program back more than anything else that ever happened. If he had come in to play with Bonner, Gray and Douglas this team would have gone to multiple NCAA tournaments and who knows what might have happened with recruiting. As it was, Grawer's last year was a great recruiting year that disintegrated into a mess. Spoon ultimately took the Grawer recruits and gave us some exciting basketball and a top 20 ranking. But Spoon may have been the least interested recruiter we ever had. The Larry team had one great year because we had Larry. Spoon then became disheartened when Larry left early.

We had some highlights with Romar and Soderberg but again it was a roller coaster. of course, every one of those coaches had to deal with very limited resources, a lousy on campus practice facility, a limited use venue for games, etc.

Each one of those coaches was criticized, on this board and in the public, sometimes viciously with incredible insults. Yet they each persevered hoping that they could move forward.

Now we have an incredible committment financially to the Billiken basketball program with a fantastic new arena and a million dollar coach with highly paid assistants. This turnaround is amazing and something I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

So now we have a new big time "hall of fame" coach that everyone was extremely happy to see come to SLU. The future looks very bright. Our recruits look good and there is hope for more even for next year. However, this years team has played terrible on offense in the first half of every game. I, for one, hoped for more this year and we may still play better. I support the coach and the players and the school. I do not like the fact that the coach feels the need to rip his players in the media. Many nationally successful coaches--coaches that have had more success than RM--handle these issues behind closed doors.

Yet some on this board seem to think that it is now heresy to say anything critical about this coach and that we have to accept everything he does even if we do not agree. That is so different every year that this board has been in existance.

I also agree that Upchurch would have put SLU over the top. That said, I know that he qualifed...but did he belong at SLU? I had a class with one basketball player who is among the dumbest human beings I've ever encountered, and he was let into SLU. If Upchurch was denied, did he really belong there?