thetorch Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 SLU is a top 100 program and nothing more. Occasional postseason berths are all that Billiken fans are going to get. Brad is just the latest victim of the SLU administrations refusal to build an elite program. Really with a recruiting budget in the bottom 1/3 Soderberg had very little chance of making this program a success. The next coach will have the same problems. I believe Brad could have been a success, he did well with some inferior teams but the well has gone dry. He made a few mistakes and he didn't have the money and time to correct them. Until Biondi wants to pony up the money the cycle will continue. Don't tell me about the arena. It looks nice for the University, and it is a huge ego trip for Biondi. Without a competitive budget for the athletic department SLU could play in the Taj Mahal and still not win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 The budget is a big issue, but it didn't impact how drastically Brad was outcoached tonight. The Duq coach basically looked at the SLU tapes, knew that Brad wouldn't make any adjustments to his lineup or strategy, and figured out a coaching strategy to take advantage of SLU's weaknesses. All the money in the world isn't going to change the result in that circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken75 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 If you have no bench - Brad's fault in recruiting - how are you supposed to adjust your lineup?? Our flaw is the lack of a bench....yes, Brad's fault - so we can't adjust nor can we fill in for a player having a bad shooting night. Two players who need to take some accountability are Danny Brown and Ian. Ian has not taken on the senior leadership or dominating play we all thought was coming this year. He looked totally intimidated in the Texam A&M game - and did not respond at Carbondale. It seems as if the NBA camp had an effect on him - too bad for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satrap Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 100 basketball programs in the NCAA are pretty good. I think over these last two games, we are showing that we may be in the 250-275 range right now. Of course, the blame should be apportioned as it has been by far more vivid observers than I am. It's just that it doesn't appear that our lack of players can be attributed to the athletic department budget - JJ,DB, BH, etc. scholarships cost as much as far better players would.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenbilly Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 couuld someone please provide a link or citation to info re: the slu budget and its inferiority to others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Billiken Billy - look at the threads that have been posted already the past 2 days there are several websites related to this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 And thre are other winning basketball schools with strong academics as well....Georgetwon has smaller recruiting budget, Creighton's is similar, B.C. and Gonzaga have smaller hoops budgets...etc... SLU needs more of an admin commitment to winning ball, and until then they need a coach good enough to overcome those shortcomings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 If SLU is top 100, what is St. Bonavanture and Duquesne? Why didnt this top 100 program make at least the NIT the last 2 seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I agree. This isn't about a budget issue. There is enough of a budget to perform at a level higher than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 i have seen you write plenty of times here how you dont know what soderberg has to change to the other teams strengths and weaknesses why cant he set tempo and game style blah blah blah. the truth is that there is no way that he should have to change anything to beat duquesne. sure duquesne presse the right buttons, but the real reason we lost the game wasnt coaching imo. our players sucked. soderberg didnt shoot 1-10 overall and 1-7 from the three point line that was our supposed best shooter, kevin lisch. soderberg didnt get out played badly at both ends of the floor in every aspect of the post by some stiff named archachi or something like that, that was our supposed nba wanna be center ian vouyoukas. our players choked against that weak ass press like 5th graders. and then when soderberg gave the board their wish and pressed back, as i predicted, it was an avalanche. our deficit went from 3 to 10 in less than 2 minutes. mainly because our players have become extremely lazy against the press. if you want to point blame at soderberg the two things i would have done is sit lisch and vouyoukas out and played maguire and knollmeyer. first off there is no way they would have been overshadowed by that team and second maybe their thirst for more time would have evolved and they might have been the spark. we didnt deserve to win and sure soderberg as the head coach deserves blame for not having them ready to play, but the players sucked. right now our players besides luke meyer and tommie liddell are not very good. period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 For all the naysayers, run a small test. Take some of the top 40 programs, and the "attractive" coaches that are assistants you may want. When has SLU ever had an up and coming assistant coach? Once. The top 40 programs all have dynamic asst. coaches/recruiters that are quality. You won't find too many head coaches that are rising through SLU's ranks, because we don't have/spend the money to maintain an excellent staff. Derek Thomas was the ONLY asst. coach I have ever seen at SLU who covered all three bases you need from an assistant. He coached with great success at the lower ranks, had great contacts and recruited well, and has a very good grasp on the entire coaching gamut. Our bench is lame, but the falloff is almost as steep on the coaching side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 ... and this post is not meant to detract from anyone on this thread, but I really don't understand just who the administration is and what they should be doing to rectify the situation we are bemoaning here. Many times, you hear things like "They are in control" yet no one ever identifies just who "they" is. Are we talking about Biondi here when we mention the "SLU Administration?" I know he's kind of a powerful guy and all organizations have that one key lead figurehead, but who is "the administration?" Is it Cheryl? Sometimes I get the feeling that some of those bashing the administration are NOT talking about Cheryl, but some backroom, cigar-smoking elite ala the government-wthin-the-government conspiracy stuff weel-known by the X-Files. Who are they? And then, if you'd please, indulge me and tell me just what it is "they" should do. It seems to me, albeit it late, that "they" are building an on-campus facility but what else should "they" be doing? Upgrading the facilities? Getting better media contracts for TV and radio? Advertisign more on Highway 40 billboards? Because "they" or for that matter you and me, could do all that and if you still ain't got a bench, or a strategy, or the talent, you still aren't going to win. Losing to BOTH St. Bonavneture AND Duquesne makes for a pretty putrid main dish, who's the real chef here? With another piece of crap on the horizon in Rhode Island, wouldn't a third straight loss be quite suicidal? Amazing how quickly the high hopes and expectations for a season can go into the crapper so quickly. What was Lisch? One for ten? We got another stellar two points off the bench. Knollmeyer got one minute. A team with four guards on the floor can't handle pressure ... FROM DUQUESNE AT HOME? We are a two man team ... but its now Tommie and Luke, not Tommie and Kevin? I'd write a Season on the Brink but the title's been taken all ready. If we can't play with these slug programs, the Temples and UMass'es of the league will kill us .... the Xaviers and Daytons will romp. What are we proposing here instead of blame on some unknown group of "they?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzah Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I don't believe the budget is a big issue in our recruiting. If we can afford to send Romar to LAX to recruit a center, than we can afford to send Brad to CHI, to Peoria, to KC, and to other points in the midwest to recruit. And very good players come out of this area. KC has one player going to Stanford and is somewhat under recruited since Kansas recruits a lot out of California and is a national player. You can drive Peoria and CHI and KC can be flown to for about $100, well within the SLU budget. Peoria, KC, and CHI have produced a lot of talent as a group over the past 4 years. How many of these players do we have. The floor coaching is a problem, but so is recruiting, and so is team conditioning. I don't see the budget as a problem, unless we are denying this coach access to the midwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 they are all over the place on campus, in their cubicles waiting to cut more and more spending. They I am sure know who you are!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have been clamoring for months for Brad to analyze his opponent's weaknesses and exploit his team's strengths (as opposed to always reacting to the other team's strengths). How is this any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Bennett at St Mary's has had some good success. He got a program that only won 2 or 3 games and made them competitive in the WCAC. I believe the Gaels beat Gonzaga either last year or the year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Nice post. That explains everything. I take it by the silence then that this is just another smoke-screen? Another attempt to pass the blame to some unknown entity. Baltimore Orioles. State-of-the-art facility. Massive annul advertising campaigns. New manager every two years. Even hire dreaded "Yankee" guys. Questionable signings. Never get the big name. Little talent. Eight/nine straight fourth place finishes in five-team American League East Division. Thank gawd for the Tampa Bay Devils Rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Taj, sometimes I am a little slow, but I do believe Cheryl is cut from the same cloth as Debbie Yow. She is a pretty fair mover and shaker, and the pace of change at SLU is close to glacial. The two achievements that will increase Cheryl's AD stock are a new bball arena, and getting either the men's basketball or soccer team back to national prominence. The arena is pretty much a done deal, as she has an extremely competent project manager with an ironclad contract hammering weekly progress at LaClede. Cheryl's stumbling block for getting a BCS AD position are the two coaches in bball and soccer. A combination of very tight AD budgets, poor timing, poor luck, and less than stellar recruiting has consigned both teams to chumming at the edges of where we want them to be. Cheryl(rightfully so) is leading the charge to get better funding, team success, and national prominence for all the athletic programs. Ladies programs in volleyball and soccer have hit the big time. With Shimmy, basketball is not far behind. On the men's side, baseball caught lightning in a bottle last year. Soccer and basketball need to buck up, or the coaches need to go. At the same time, Biondi needs to turn his attention to kicking some cash into the programs. The arena is nice, but arenas do not win games, teams do. We need to be floating at the 150 - 200 level in AD budgets, not at the 220 - 250 level. There is no easier way to hold a high maintenance set of programs down then to fund them at a 60% level, and expect miracles. You cut too many corners, and you find out all the fat is gone, along with muscle and bone. If recruiting is the lifeblood for a strong program, then fund that part of the budget at a level that states you are successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 sheltie dave said, "At the same time, Biondi needs to turn his attention to kicking some cash into the programs. The arena is nice, but arenas do not win games, teams do. We need to be floating at the 150 - 200 level in AD budgets, not at the 220 - 250 level. There is no easier way to hold a high maintenance set of programs down then to fund them at a 60% level, and expect miracles. You cut too many corners, and you find out all the fat is gone, along with muscle and bone. If recruiting is the lifeblood for a strong program, then fund that part of the budget at a level that states you are successful." if he promises a top 50 program and we should be funded like a top 50 program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Roy....who recruited these players that "sucked"? Oh, let me guess, it was the recruiting budget that caused Soderberg to settle for these players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 .. doesn't work, trust me, I work for the world's greatest believer in that philosphy, the United States Government! But let's say you are both on the right path ... that we are not funded to be a top 50 program. We give Brad and his staff an at-call jet. We fund recruting trips and visits to the maximum allowable limit set by the NCAAs. Heck we even hire a totally seperate staff that focuses solely on recruiting while the other staff focuses on solely game prep. We get the arena of everyone's dreams. You name it and we get it. Based on what appears to be an inability or stubbornness to change coaching tactics, based on what appears an inability to motivate and get his charges pumped and ready to perform at each opening tip. Based on a less-than-stellar track record in talent evaluation. Based on a distinct disdain for playing only the most "proven" of his roster. And based on being outcoached (as some have said) by the scourges and bottom feeders of this conference ... based on all this we are going to give this leadeship group an open checkbook to spend even more money? Wow ... that is certainly a show of faith if you ask me. Five years and counting with nothing to show for it. I am leaning big time towards the sinking side of the ship. I was extremely high post Ole Miss comeback. The rock bottom has to be a loss to Rhodey. It is that close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 It's not a question of whether or not we are funded to be a top 50 program ... we are not. Period, it's not debateable. You can't be below 225 out of 330 teams in recruiting bidget and expect to recruit like the top 50. It is hard for me to believe that so many smart people on this board believe it is no big deal, or is it maybe that you are so focused on the fire the coach campaign that you can't look at it realistically. I'm not saying Brad should stay ... I think we need to evaluate the situation at the end of the year and make a decision ... but until just very recently the arena was all talk, and many on this board questioned whether it would ever get done. So all anyone had to sell for facilities was West Pine. We haven't been able to get any real TV exposure for as long as I have been a fan which is 17 years. Our recruiting budget is in the bottom 25% of all D1 basketball programs. None of those things alone is a death wish in recruiting, but when you add them all up, there is no question it puts whomever the SLU coach is at a serious disadvantage. So if the decision is made to fire UB ... and we keep everything else at stautus quo ... we are still in trouble. We average 8000 fans a game in a bad year and we fund recruiting with the schools that average 1500 ... it is sad. Regarding UB ... I'm up in the air on what should be done. On one hand he IS at a serious disadvantage in recruiting and I question whether he has been given a fair shot in that regard, actually, I don't question it, I know he hasn't. I wonder if he should be given that shot. On the other hand ... he doesn't seem to be able to get through to his players, and we have lost to teams over the years that have no business beating us. I consider these last 2 loses unacceptable regardless of recruiting (as we clearly had the better players in both games) it is also not the only 2 times we have played very poorly against teams we should beat. His absolute reliance on the pack defense, which imo sucks. We have no 4 and he continues to tout LM as the answer ... he isn't. For every reason given that he should be on the floor ... I agree with them all, but why isn't he doing those same things from the 3, not the 4. Adam needs to play, let him play and lets take our lumps. I guess it boils down to the fact that I think we are at a severe disadvantage with recruiting, but even with that said, we continue to lose to teams who do not have better players than us ... and that is unacceptable. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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