SLU Soccer 2017

[Pistol]

Looking at the roster, I see maybe 7 players I'd want to see for the next round of qualifying. Not a total blowup - we obviously need to build around Pulisic - but Arena's whole aim with this roster was experience to get through the rest of qualifying and it blew up in his dumb face. I see 14 guys who are 30 or older - gone, all of them. Gonzalez was as bad as a player could possibly be last night. Villafana is useless. I'm not sure how many more chances Altidore deserves; he also sucked last night. I'm borderline there.

Arena should be fired today.

Sunil Gulati has to go, as well. I'd like to see him resign today. If he doesn't step down, what does it take to get him fired? A vote? I think I remember seeing his term was up in February for the next vote? Surely he won't be reelected if so, right?

[johnbj14]

Many thoughts running through my head today about last night, but my biggest ones are these. Pulisic, Yedlin, Wood, and Acosta are the only 4 guys who saw the pitch last night who should be around the next time qualifiers happen. Jesse Gonzalez or Ethan Horvath need to be in net going forward. Tim Howard is not a realistic option in the next cycle. The defense really missed John Brooks, who is arguably the national team's best player. 

Overall this is an absolute embarrassment for a nation with the population and resources of the United States. Developing a top flight soccer system here is not out of the question, but it must be re-thought. If we don't begin a shift towards academy development, as top flight European countries do, we should at the very least be sending our youngest stars abroad and be trained by the world's best. My hope is that this embarrassment begins the change. An elite USMNT is not an impossible feat, but it is far-fetched if the same approach is tried. 

[Pistol]

18 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Many thoughts running through my head today about last night, but my biggest ones are these. Pulisic, Yedlin, Wood, and Acosta are the only 4 guys who saw the pitch last night who should be around the next time qualifiers happen. Jesse Gonzalez or Ethan Horvath need to be in net going forward. Tim Howard is not a realistic option in the next cycle. The defense really missed John Brooks, who is arguably the national team's best player. 

Overall this is an absolute embarrassment for a nation with the population and resources of the United States. Developing a top flight soccer system here is not out of the question, but it must be re-thought. If we don't begin a shift towards academy development, as top flight European countries do, we should at the very least be sending our youngest stars abroad and be trained by the world's best. My hope is that this embarrassment begins the change. An elite USMNT is not an impossible feat, but it is far-fetched if the same approach is tried. 

The goalies are 38, 38, and 33. None of them should be in the mix again. Horvath and Gonzalez are both 22.

Brooks (24) was a glaring omission. I agree on those four being the ones who should still be around, although I like what Nagbe (27) brings. I'd probably keep Bradley (30) around for a while. Fabian Johnson is 29 and another guy I'd consider for continuity and leadership. I haven't been impressed with Arriola, but he's 22, like Acosta. Jordan Morris is another 22-year-old in the mix but not on last night's roster.

Twellman made the point last night that this team has missed the last two Olympics, and when you look at that sort of 24-to-29 range, it's a pretty big hole. That generation has been bad. The 20-24 range looks strong, and the U-17 team is making noise internationally right now.

[Littlebill]

5 minutes ago, Pistol said:

The goalies are 38, 38, and 33. None of them should be in the mix again. Horvath and Gonzalez are both 22.

Brooks (24) was a glaring omission. I agree on those four being the ones who should still be around, although I like what Nagbe (27) brings. I'd probably keep Bradley (30) around for a while. Fabian Johnson is 29 and another guy I'd consider for continuity and leadership. I haven't been impressed with Arriola, but he's 22, like Acosta. Jordan Morris is another 22-year-old in the mix but not on last night's roster.

Twellman made the point last night that this team has missed the last two Olympics, and when you look at that sort of 24-to-29 range, it's a pretty big hole. That generation has been bad. The 20-24 range looks strong, and the U-17 team is making noise internationally right now.

Brooks is injured

[Pistol]

Just now, Littlebill said:

Brooks is injured

Yeah, I guess I should have worded that differently. Glaring absence, perhaps.

[WUH]

16 hours ago, Spoon-Balls said:

What about a guy like Jason Mims up at University of Nebraska Omaha? A Billiken soccer alum who's built up a top 25 program pretty much from nothing. 

http://www.omavs.com/coaches.aspx?rc=196&path=msoc

I like this way of thinking.

Coach Mims did start with a regional university that just moved to Division II and had (almost) no soccer tradition whatsoever, but Omaha is a nice soccer city and the university decided to invest heavily in the program to take advantage of that.  Key to the effort was the renovation of Caniglia Field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_F._Caniglia_Field

Hermann could look like that...

[Bobby Metzinger]

42 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Many thoughts running through my head today about last night, but my biggest ones are these. Pulisic, Yedlin, Wood, and Acosta are the only 4 guys who saw the pitch last night who should be around the next time qualifiers happen. Jesse Gonzalez or Ethan Horvath need to be in net going forward. Tim Howard is not a realistic option in the next cycle. The defense really missed John Brooks, who is arguably the national team's best player. 

Overall this is an absolute embarrassment for a nation with the population and resources of the United States. Developing a top flight soccer system here is not out of the question, but it must be re-thought. If we don't begin a shift towards academy development, as top flight European countries do, we should at the very least be sending our youngest stars abroad and be trained by the world's best. My hope is that this embarrassment begins the change. An elite USMNT is not an impossible feat, but it is far-fetched if the same approach is tried. 

With limited international/MLS knowledge, I pose this question - is conditioning/fresh legs/grueling travel schedule an issue? I mean, I guess that can be said for other players representing their home countries, but how much is left in the tank for these guys after international/MLS play? Asking them to dial it up for Uncle Sam seems logical, but how does a possible lack of R&R factor in? 

[Littlebill]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

With limited international/MLS knowledge, I pose this question - is conditioning/fresh legs/grueling travel schedule an issue? I mean, I guess that can be said for other players representing their home countries, but how much is left in the tank for these guys after international/MLS play? Asking them to dial it up for Uncle Sam seems logical, but how does a possible lack of R&R factor in? 

No

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, Littlebill said:

No

Ok, is there any way you could elaborate on this for me? Kind of hard to just accept a yes/no answer when the question is valid. I appreciate it. 

[Littlebill]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Ok, is there any way you could elaborate on this for me? Kind of hard to just accept a yes/no answer when the question is valid. I appreciate it. 

Because they don't lose their legs in MLS games. And neither do the players who play in Germany or England. 

[billikenfan05]

 

8 minutes ago, WUH said:

I like this way of thinking.

Coach Mims did start with a regional university that just moved to Division II and had (almost) no soccer tradition whatsoever, but Omaha is a nice soccer city and the university decided to invest heavily in the program to take advantage of that.  Key to the effort was the renovation of Caniglia Field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_F._Caniglia_Field

Hermann could look like that...

Looking at that stadium makes me and should make every slu soccer fan furious with the SLU Athletic Department. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 minute ago, Littlebill said:

Because they don't lose their legs in MLS games. And neither do the players who play in Germany or England. 

It just appeared to me that T&T was the better-conditioned team last night. They enforced their will on us. 

[wgstl]

13 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

It just appeared to me that T&T was the better-conditioned team last night. They enforced their will on us. 

This is an overused term in pro soccer. 

We had no tactical plan. conditioned or not, we were out of form and had no real game plan. 

[Littlebill]

13 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

It just appeared to me that T&T was the better-conditioned team last night. They enforced their will on us. 

Okay well you asked a question and I answered it, which you obviously already had an opinion on. Good to have you back 

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, Littlebill said:

Okay well you asked a question and I answered it, which you obviously already had an opinion on. Good to have you back 

Just seems like our guys logged a lot of miles this year; I don't know the logistics of getting guys to get to Trinidad from wherever they are playing professionally, but it seems they like they just got off the plane and went to the stadium. That's what I was curious about - NFL guys (normally) get Monday - Saturday of light practice and recuperation time. Not knowing what the calendar/schedule is for these guys is often frustrating. It's more of a puzzling conundrum, rather than an opinion. 

[slu06]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Looking at the roster, I see maybe 7 players I'd want to see for the next round of qualifying. Not a total blowup - we obviously need to build around Pulisic - but Arena's whole aim with this roster was experience to get through the rest of qualifying and it blew up in his dumb face. I see 14 guys who are 30 or older - gone, all of them. Gonzalez was as bad as a player could possibly be last night. Villafana is useless. I'm not sure how many more chances Altidore deserves; he also sucked last night. I'm borderline there.

 

 

Curious -  which 7?

With an eye to the future, I would say Wood, Pulisic, Yedlin, Arriola, , Acosta, are the only ones I'd care to see back from the squad last night (Jordan Morris wasn't on the roster last night, but is in that boat, too).

El Guzano, who will no doubt be the "elder" goal keeper going forward as we mix in younger guys (not saying he will automatically start). 

Bradley and Cameron will continue to get call ups b/c they are veterans, but are both on the wrong side of 30 to be part of the plan, in my book, going foward.

(Side note: Bradley is SO inconsistent and doesn't cover ground/provide bite like he used too; Cameron at center back over either of those scrubs last night, please).

Altidore should be done with the USMNT (de facto starter since he was 18 and... well...).

Also, why didn't we have Fabian Johnson on our bench instead of about everyone else?

[slu06]

5 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Just seems like our guys logged a lot of miles this year; I don't know the logistics of getting guys to get to Trinidad from wherever they are playing professionally, but it seems they like they just got off the plane and went to the stadium. That's what I was curious about - NFL guys (normally) get Monday - Saturday of light practice and recuperation time. Not knowing what the calendar/schedule is for these guys is often frustrating. It's more of a puzzling conundrum, rather than an opinion. 

Orlando to T&T is not bad at all (plus they fly chartered planes).  Also, this group is almost exclusively made up of MLS players who are in season/shape and on a WC break right now to focus on these games.  Also also, every other team in CONCACAF (minus Costa Rica) had the same turn around time in between games this week.  

I don't see any excuse for the lack of energy/effort (my opinion, at least) in that game last night.

 

[wgstl]

Pending how well he adjusts to euro football, Josh Sargent would be 19-20 by the time we start playing for 2022 WC.

 

 

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, 615Billiken said:

How are you defining 'top flight'?

Look at the best players the US has produced since 1985.  Make a top 50 list of them.  How many had their 18th birthday after 2004 and came up through the US system?  3 or 4 maybe.  We should have have a whole team in the prime of their soccer playing career right now benefiting from the changes made to US Soccer over the years, but that isn't the case.  Players that were 12 years old when Gulati took charge are now 23 and entering the prime years for soccer players. They should be showing results around the world due to the changes that were implemented under Gulati's watch.  It isn't happening.  It isn't like the younger US national teams are setting the world on fire, either.

[Littlebill]

6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Look at the best players the US has produced since 1985.  Make a top 50 list of them.  How many had their 18th birthday after 2004 and came up through the US system?  3 or 4 maybe.  We should have have a whole team in the prime of their soccer playing career right now benefiting from the changes made to US Soccer over the years, but that isn't the case.  Players that were 12 years old when Gulati took charge are now 23 and entering the prime years for soccer players. They should be showing results around the world due to the changes that were implemented under Gulati's watch.  It isn't happening.  It isn't like the younger US national teams are setting the world on fire, either.

That was Twellman's big argument - Wood and Yedlin are the only two that age that contribute.

[3star_recruit]

I get the impression that other than Pulisic, none of our other players would even make the roster of the top 20 teams in the world.

[Tilkowsky]

26 minutes ago, slu06 said:

 

Curious -  which 7?

With an eye to the future, I would say Wood, Pulisic, Yedlin, Arriola, , Acosta, are the only ones I'd care to see back from the squad last night (Jordan Morris wasn't on the roster last night, but is in that boat, too).

El Guzano, who will no doubt be the "elder" goal keeper going forward as we mix in younger guys (not saying he will automatically start). 

Bradley and Cameron will continue to get call ups b/c they are veterans, but are both on the wrong side of 30 to be part of the plan, in my book, going foward.

(Side note: Bradley is SO inconsistent and doesn't cover ground/provide bite like he used too; Cameron at center back over either of those scrubs last night, please).

Altidore should be done with the USMNT (de facto starter since he was 18 and... well...).

Also, why didn't we have Fabian Johnson on our bench instead of about everyone else?

Arena was not a fan of the German Americans - he and Johnson disagreed where he should play.

Arena wanted him at left fullback - Johnson wanted to be in the mid-field.

Johnson said he was going to retire from National team duty after 2018.

He didn't  like the travel.

 

[Tilkowsky]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

The biggest problem is way MLS ownership is structured.  Their is no incentive for MLS clubs to spend money to develop players.  They can't sell their rights to European clubs because their rights are owned by the league.  

We have moved to a system were the Gallagher's of the world control the development of players.  If your family isn't willing to pay thousand of dollars you are frozen out.  Less costly high schools and church programs have been completely marginalized.

MLS is single entity - which won't change anytime soon.

Most if not all MLS teams have academies. 

So MLS is spending money on developing players.

High schools and church programs are not how the rest of the world develops players. The Academy system is how it is done.

If someone is good enough and has the money I bet they would find a  spot for you.

When you look at the U-17 USMNT team each one belongs to a professional club. That is a good thing.

There is not one player associated with a high school.

How many WC's did the high school church program system win? None.

The rest of the world uses the Academy system - it has just started in this country.

Not all academies charge like Scott Gallagher.

 

[Littlebill]

15 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I get the impression that other than Pulisic, none of our other players would even make the roster of the top 20 teams in the world.

Top 10, yes that's he case. But once you look at it - Peru, Poland, Mexico, etc. Plenty more would start.

[johnbj14]

If you want a good look at two MLS teams with good academy blueprints for other teams (yes I know MLS teams have academies already) look at FC Dallas and Atlanta United. They brought in sporting directors from large European clubs, with Atlanta bringing in Darren Eales, a former higher up at Tottenham. There is a reason the European academy model works. When competing with other countries where soccer is life, you have to adopt the same mentality.