SLU Soccer 2017

[Tilkowsky]

12 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

There's been a paradigm shift in youth sports over the last 20 years where soccer is dominating and is more mainstream than football, baseball, basketball. It's also taking hold in socioeconomic soft points because soccer is, financially, a less-exerting sport to play - equipment is leaps and bounds cheaper than football for sure and with the spotlight on concussions, etc., the sport is trending upwards in major cities across the country. The ACC (8 NCAA men's titles since 2001) has been so dominating because youth soccer is flourishing in the mid-Atlantic and southeastern United States population centers like the D.C. Metro, Richmond, the Research Triangle of Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Birmingham, Ala. These guys don't have to leave the region to play for an annual national championship contender.

Coincidentally, on the professional side, you're seeing MLS reach expansion cater to these thriving and expanding markets (which also include transplants from the Midwest - Chicago, St. Louis, etc). Don't forget about Texas -- the Lone Star state is still (American) football crazy, but Texas is also a state where soccer is huge - first time I ever saw an EPL game advertised in America was at a pub in Dallas, Trinity Hall, that was opening up just a few hours after I exited bar left to host some rabid Hotspur supporters. 

So it's not so much SLU having to compete for talent locally, it's that the country is evolving into a soccer-crazed nation, which is great if you are a soccer fan - but SLU can't rest on it's local/Midwest laurels anymore. We have to compete at a national level (even dipping into an international pool) to secure top talent. Does it sting to see our local guys leave for IU, UvA, Stanford, etc? Sure. But that doesn't mean we can't raid the Atlanta metro or the Raleigh/Durham area of its top talent and bring them to SLU. 

 

All of what you say is true.

Unfortunately I think it is SLU can't compete with P5 schools anymore.

There have been 3 schools that have gone on to win the NCAADivision I Men's title that are similar to SLU in size in the last 30 years.

Santa Clara, UCSB, Akron.

Most of the other titles are from schools like ND, IU (which has won II since SLU won their last), Virginia.

SLU just can't get kids to compete with those types of schools any longer. Needless to say dipping into the international pool hasn't been successful either. The problem is if a kid is coming here from Europe he probably isn't any good - otherwise he would be playing professionally.

 

[Bobby Metzinger]

20 hours ago, Tilkowsky said:

All of what you say is true.

Unfortunately I think it is SLU can't compete with P5 schools anymore.

There have been 3 schools that have gone on to win the NCAADivision I Men's title that are similar to SLU in size in the last 30 years.

Santa Clara, UCSB, Akron.

Most of the other titles are from schools like ND, IU (which has won II since SLU won their last), Virginia.

SLU just can't get kids to compete with those types of schools any longer. Needless to say dipping into the international pool hasn't been successful either. The problem is if a kid is coming here from Europe he probably isn't any good - otherwise he would be playing professionally.

 

That might not hold anymore, especially if the family of said kid wants him to receive an education in the United States. I don't know (or even pretend to know) the circumstances in which a European player opts out of a development program or a national U-21 squad to fly across the pond to play here - but maybe we should say "more power to him" for continuing his intellectual advancement while also continuing to play sports. Maybe? 

[Tilkowsky]

40 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

That might not hold anymore, especially if the family of said kid wants him to receive an education in the United States. I don't know (or even pretend to know) the circumstances in which a European player opts out of a development program or a national U-21 squad to fly across the pond to play here - but maybe we should say "more power to him" for continuing his intellectual advancement while also continuing to play sports. Maybe? 

How has that worked out for SLU? No offense to the kids from overseas who have come to SLU, but that really hasn't worked out has it? Just look at the results SLU has had, not very good.

 

I guess Kylian Mbappe who is 18 years old would be better off coming to SLU instead of starting for Paris St. Germain in Ligue 1?

How do you explain a kid like Josh Sargent? A star on the U-20 and U-17 USMNT 

Josh Sargent will sign with Werder Bremen. You don't see talented kids like that going to college, especially SLU.

Does that mean Mr. and Mrs. Sargent don't want their son to be intellectually advanced?

 

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 hour ago, Tilkowsky said:

How has that worked out for SLU? No offense to the kids from overseas who have come to SLU, but that really hasn't worked out has it? Just look at the results SLU has had, not very good.

 

I guess Kylian Mbappe who is 18 years old would be better off coming to SLU instead of starting for Paris St. Germain in Ligue 1?

How do you explain a kid like Josh Sargent? A star on the U-20 and U-17 USMNT 

Josh Sargent will sign with Werder Bremen. You don't see talented kids like that going to college, especially SLU.

Does that mean Mr. and Mrs. Sargent don't want their son to be intellectually advanced?

 

These are one-off examples; the .0001% - that's a bit unfair, don't you think? I can't explain them, or script October, but maybe it was just written in the stars for these kids. They have more fast-twitch muscle fiber, etc. 

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

These are one-off examples; the .0001% - that's a bit unfair, don't you think? I can't explain them, or script October, but maybe it was just written in the stars for these kids. They have more fast-twitch muscle fiber, etc. 

I would argue they aren't one off examples. More kids who have the option are going to MLS Academies or going overseas.

My point is that college soccer isn't attracting the top talent like it used to.

Robbie Kristo was probably the best player at SLU in recent years. He is 24 years old and playing in the Third Division in Germany. He will NEVER make it as a top flight player anywhere. 

Look at the rosters of the USMNT U-20 team that competed this past summer.

i think there was one kid who played college soccer. The rest were already professionals.

The US Under 17's play India at 9:20 AM this Friday in their opening game at the U-17 World Cup.

You will be hard pressed to find any kids on that team going to college in their future.

https://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-mens-national-team/latest-roster

Just one player who is unattached. Sargent is listed with his Academy team because he can't sign yet with Werder Bremen.

[Bobby Metzinger]

28 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

I would argue they aren't one off examples. More kids who have the option are going to MLS Academies or going overseas.

My point is that college soccer isn't attracting the top talent like it used to.

Robbie Kristo was probably the best player at SLU in recent years. He is 24 years old and playing in the Third Division in Germany. He will NEVER make it as a top flight player anywhere. 

Look at the rosters of the USMNT U-20 team that competed this past summer.

i think there was one kid who played college soccer. The rest were already professionals.

The US Under 17's play India at 9:20 AM this Friday in their opening game at the U-17 World Cup.

You will be hard pressed to find any kids on that team going to college in their future.

https://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-mens-national-team/latest-roster

Just one player who is unattached. Sargent is listed with his Academy team because he can't sign yet with Werder Bremen.

That's the strongest point you've made, Til - you're probably more than right on that -- money talks, and these kids can come back and get an education whenever they want, or online with probably any university in the country. 

So then, to further the discussion, what can Saint Louis University do to recruit and sign the top tier of the next level of player? If these aren't the A-students going to the Ivies of Pro Soccer, what's the next flight down and how can we attract them to don Billiken blue?

[Tilkowsky]

11 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

That's the strongest point you've made, Til - you're probably more than right on that -- money talks, and these kids can come back and get an education whenever they want, or online with probably any university in the country. 

So then, to further the discussion, what can Saint Louis University do to recruit and sign the top tier of the next level of player? If these aren't the A-students going to the Ivies of Pro Soccer, what's the next flight down and how can we attract them to don Billiken blue?

Get out of the A-10 into a power 5 conference.

The A-10 is a terrible soccer conference.

In the last thirty years only three schools similar in size to SLU have won the NCAA Division I Men's title.

Akron, UCSB, Santa Clara.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, Tilkowsky said:

Get out of the A-10 into a power 5 conference.

The A-10 is a terrible soccer conference.

In the last thirty years only three schools similar in size to SLU have won the NCAA Division I Men's title.

Akron, UCSB, Santa Clara.

The whole single-NCAA Tournament bid is cumbersome for everyone in the A-10 that has a good season, yet stumbles and falls in the A-10 Tournament. 

How would that process go? I know that many schools have done the multiple conferences route - like ND just opted out of Hockey East to join the B1G in hockey - leaving behind all the New England hockey schools in its wake. Could we join the B1G in soccer, knowing not all the B1G schools (like Iowa and Illinois, for example) have men's soccer? Is that a viable option? Anything like that on the table? 

[billikenfan05]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

The whole single-NCAA Tournament bid is cumbersome for everyone in the A-10 that has a good season, yet stumbles and falls in the A-10 Tournament. 

How would that process go? I know that many schools have done the multiple conferences route - like ND just opted out of Hockey East to join the B1G in hockey - leaving behind all the New England hockey schools in its wake. Could we join the B1G in soccer, knowing not all the B1G schools (like Iowa and Illinois, for example) have men's soccer? Is that a viable option? Anything like that on the table? 

The conference tournament champion auto bid is a Bad model for soccer. 

[Tilkowsky]

31 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

The whole single-NCAA Tournament bid is cumbersome for everyone in the A-10 that has a good season, yet stumbles and falls in the A-10 Tournament. 

How would that process go? I know that many schools have done the multiple conferences route - like ND just opted out of Hockey East to join the B1G in hockey - leaving behind all the New England hockey schools in its wake. Could we join the B1G in soccer, knowing not all the B1G schools (like Iowa and Illinois, for example) have men's soccer? Is that a viable option? Anything like that on the table? 

No.

SLU isn't Notre Dame.

Their only path to a P5 Conference is the Big East.

I don't know that the Big East would add SLU though.

There is talk UCONN wants back in the Big East. UCONN gets the nod before SLU.

Dayton is usually mentioned before SLU.

Then there is the question does the Big East even want to expand? Haven't heard much positive in that direction.

[Tilkowsky]

Why does the A-10 have a problem with a single bid for the NCAA tournament?

The ACC doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

[615Billiken]

Well, 3-0 win for the Billikens over Duquesne two days ago. Heres to hoping they will win the rest of their conference game.

[SLUBALLS]

David Graydon, Calum, Kyle Patterson, German right back we recently had, Sasha Otte, Lennart Hein..... those guys all came from overseas and have or did contribute.  I think it's been a mixed bag at best in terms of the foreign player influence.  If you look at through the prism of "if we have foreigners, we should win more" then yes, it doesn't look that good.  But I don't think we can say it hasn't worked out.

SLU needs to regroup and stop thinking about competing with IU, UCLA, Akron, etc.  We have slipped hard through self-inflicted wounds and evolution of the game here in the states. We have to compete with those schools no one thought of as a decent soccer school no less than ten years ago.  It's fun to bring in all these Top 25 teams to see quality soccer but consistently losing simply puts SLU in the penalty box for recruits.  We need to take the underdog mentality and stop harkening back to yesteryear when we won nat'l championships.  They don't matter today....at all.  Especially to today's recruits.  We have tradition, professional connections, good facilities, good school but we simply need to win whether that be top 25 or top 50 teams

[Guest Tilkowsky]

10 minutes ago, SLUBALLS said:

David Graydon, Calum, Kyle Patterson, German right back we recently had, Sasha Otte, Lennart Hein..... those guys all came from overseas and have or did contribute.  I think it's been a mixed bag at best in terms of the foreign player influence.  If you look at through the prism of "if we have foreigners, we should win more" then yes, it doesn't look that good.  But I don't think we can say it hasn't worked out.

SLU needs to regroup and stop thinking about competing with IU, UCLA, Akron, etc.  We have slipped hard through self-inflicted wounds and evolution of the game here in the states. We have to compete with those schools no one thought of as a decent soccer school no less than ten years ago.  It's fun to bring in all these Top 25 teams to see quality soccer but consistently losing simply puts SLU in the penalty box for recruits.  We need to take the underdog mentality and stop harkening back to yesteryear when we won nat'l championships.  They don't matter today....at all.  Especially to today's recruits.  We have tradition, professional connections, good facilities, good school but we simply need to win whether that be top 25 or top 50 teams

So if you say stop competing with the big schools I assume you are giving up on getting back to College Cup then?

Tell the guys who won all of those National Championships that they don't matter.

If it doesn't mean anything to recruits - the take the ten stars off of the jersey..

Unfortunately the foreigners contribution hasn't amounted to much.

Isn't winning the most important thing! Is there anything else?

[615Billiken]

9 minutes ago, SLUBALLS said:

David Graydon, Calum, Kyle Patterson, German right back we recently had, Sasha Otte, Lennart Hein..... those guys all came from overseas and have or did contribute.  I think it's been a mixed bag at best in terms of the foreign player influence.  If you look at through the prism of "if we have foreigners, we should win more" then yes, it doesn't look that good.  But I don't think we can say it hasn't worked out.

SLU needs to regroup and stop thinking about competing with IU, UCLA, Akron, etc.  We have slipped hard through self-inflicted wounds and evolution of the game here in the states. We have to compete with those schools no one thought of as a decent soccer school no less than ten years ago.  It's fun to bring in all these Top 25 teams to see quality soccer but consistently losing simply puts SLU in the penalty box for recruits.  We need to take the underdog mentality and stop harkening back to yesteryear when we won nat'l championships.  They don't matter today....at all.  Especially to today's recruits.  We have tradition, professional connections, good facilities, good school but we simply need to win whether that be top 25 or top 50 teams

I agree. European and Latin American countries for the most part have huge and well developed youth systems and by the time that a kid is 16-18, they know if they have a chance of going pro. Usually youth academies in foreign countries are attached to professional teams (they're like farm teams), so they have a good sense of where their future lies. I would say that the assumption that more foreigners =success is wrong because foreigners that choose to come to play college soccer in the U.S essentially is the crop who knew wouldn't make it pro and are at around the same level as American college soccer players. 

The U.S college to pro system is unique because it sort of delays the player's professional debut. It is standard for a pro soccer player across the world to make their debut at at around 17-18 (heck, I even saw my favorite Mexican team debut a 14 year old player in a friendly a few years back), while here it is in the early 20's. 

[SLUBALLS]

 

21 minutes ago, Guest Tilkowsky said:

So if you say stop competing with the big schools I assume you are giving up on getting back to College Cup then?

Tell the guys who won all of those National Championships that they don't matter.

If it doesn't mean anything to recruits - the take the ten stars off of the jersey..

Unfortunately the foreigners contribution hasn't amounted to much.

Isn't winning the most important thing! Is there anything else?

The St. Louis soccer "Mafia" comes out.....if we don't have local kids, if we don't have College Cup dreams, we won 10 championships 40 years ago, back in my day, blah blah blah.....Look, the point is SLU soccer has to reset period.  We have to lower our expectations on winning......it's painful to realize because we do have so much of a winning tradition but we need to get back to exactly what you said....WINNING.  Beat Pacific, Western Michigan, Air Force, Kentucky, Omaha.....all schools in the top 30 (collegesoccernews).  Beat the freakin A10 at minimum.  We will sink more if we continue to hope (based on traditional expectations) to beat the Top 10 convincingly but lose badly.  We use to mean something when we came to town.  We don't today.  Win and get some swagger in our step.  Be the underdog and own it.  Rebuild that SLU of old but don't have any illusions that it will be as easy as it was when ten championships were rolling in.

[Tilkowsky]

28 minutes ago, 615Billiken said:

I agree. European and Latin American countries for the most part have huge and well developed youth systems and by the time that a kid is 16-18, they know if they have a chance of going pro. Usually youth academies in foreign countries are attached to professional teams (they're like farm teams), so they have a good sense of where their future lies. I would say that the assumption that more foreigners =success is wrong because foreigners that choose to come to play college soccer in the U.S essentially is the crop who knew wouldn't make it pro and are at around the same level as American college soccer players. 

The U.S college to pro system is unique because it sort of delays the player's professional debut. It is standard for a pro soccer player across the world to make their debut at at around 17-18 (heck, I even saw my favorite Mexican team debut a 14 year old player in a friendly a few years back), while here it is in the early 20's. 

Except fewer college kids in the US are turning pro. Most kids turning pro have been in the Academy system as almost all MLS teams have academies.

So I would suggest most US kids who choose college know they're not professional material. 

Just like in Europe.

[Tilkowsky]

1 minute ago, SLUBALLS said:

 

The St. Louis soccer "Mafia" comes out.....if we don't have local kids, if we don't have College Cup dreams, we won 10 championships 40 years ago, back in my day, blah blah blah.....Look, the point is SLU soccer has to reset period.  We have to lower our expectations on winning......it's painful to realize because we do have so much of a winning tradition but we need to get back to exactly what you said....WINNING.  Beat Pacific, Western Michigan, Air Force, Kentucky, Omaha.....all schools in the top 30 (collegesoccernews).  Beat the freakin A10 at minimum.  We will sink more if we continue to hope (based on traditional expectations) to beat the Top 10 convincingly but lose badly.  We use to mean something when we came to town.  We don't today.  Win and get some swagger in our step.  Be the underdog and own it.  Rebuild that SLU of old but don't have any illusions that it will be as easy as it was when ten championships were rolling in.

Agree.

Part of the reset has to be to get rid of Mike McGinty.

His calling card supposedly was recruiting. He hasn't been able todo it here.

SLu isn't even getting the best that Saint Louis has to offer. If they are, then the quality of Saint Louis players has gone down drastically.

[HoosierPal]

45 minutes ago, Guest Tilkowsky said:

So if you say stop competing with the big schools I assume you are giving up on getting back to College Cup then?

Tell the guys who won all of those National Championships that they don't matter.

If it doesn't mean anything to recruits - the take the ten stars off of the jersey..

Unfortunately the foreigners contribution hasn't amounted to much.

Isn't winning the most important thing! Is there anything else?

MODERATORS, please.  What the heck is this?  I have TrollPants on Ignore because he is still intensely bitter about getting cut as the soccer manager.  Now he is coming through as a Guest?  Please tell me you didn't create a loophole for TrollPants?

[Tilkowsky]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

MODERATORS, please.  What the heck is this?  I have TrollPants on Ignore because he is still intensely bitter about getting cut as the soccer manager.  Now he is coming through as a Guest?  Please tell me you didn't create a loophole for TrollPants?

HoosierPal - What do you think about this year's SLU soccer team?

 

i am interested in your thoughts.

[billikenfan05]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

MODERATORS, please.  What the heck is this?  I have TrollPants on Ignore because he is still intensely bitter about getting cut as the soccer manager.  Now he is coming through as a Guest?  Please tell me you didn't create a loophole for TrollPants?

Yeah this is a bannable offense. It’s been done to Bobby before. Time to do it to someone who isn’t actually a fan @SluSignGuy @davidnark

[Billikenbooster]

Yes! Cut the manager/Tilkowsky again!

mhg

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

Yeah this is a bannable offense. It’s been done to Bobby before. Time to do it to someone who isn’t actually a fan @SluSignGuy @davidnark

How am I not a SLU fan?

[Clock_Tower]

Sluballs. What do you recommend?  

Do we have a local St Louis guy who would want to be SLUs coach and be good at it?  Would a local coach be able to keep the better kids in town and away fro IU etc?  

Or do we need to go get another Bob Warming type?  A proven winning head coach? Bob immediately changed everything about the soccer program and not only won, but won big. Warming also got local guys who had already left to transfer back as well as kept local high school kids from leaving. But more than recruiting, he could really coach the kids and made his teams overachieve. Personally, he is my blueprint for returning SLU soccer to being a top 20 program. 

Again, personally I prefer hiring a proven Majerus or Spoonhour or T Ford type instead of some up and coming assistant...even though I fully recognize that every great head coach was an assistant at one time. 

[Tilkowsky]

31 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Sluballs. What do you recommend?  

Do we have a local St Louis guy who would want to be SLUs coach and be good at it?  Would a local coach be able to keep the better kids in town and away fro IU etc?  

Or do we need to go get another Bob Warming type?  A proven winning head coach? Bob immediately changed everything about the soccer program and not only won, but won big. Warming also got local guys who had already left to transfer back as well as kept local high school kids from leaving. But more than recruiting, he could really coach the kids and made his teams overachieve. Personally, he is my blueprint for returning SLU soccer to being a top 20 program. 

Again, personally I prefer hiring a proven Majerus or Spoonhour or T Ford type instead of some up and coming assistant...even though I fully recognize that every great head coach was an assistant at one time. 

Is SLU even willing to pay a top soccer coach?

How much does McGinty make?

Does anybody know?