FromGreeceWithLove Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I am a long time reader and first time poster. I am a big fan and excited about the prospects of the SLU program in the future. However, I have left Savvis Center with a biter taste in my mouth the past couple games. I am glad to see SLU compete with some of the elite teams in the country, but there comes a point when you need to go beyond just playing teams close and pulling one of those games off. I think its important to not become comlacent with keeping games close. SLU seems to be lacking that killer instinct. I would agree that the games against UNC and Gonzaga were a step in the right direction, eventhough they were still loses. However, the Iowa game was a game the Billikens should have won. Iowa is a good team and a team that is very beatable, especially when playing them at home. My friends and I discussed the game at length and came to some common thoughts: Why does Dwayne Polk play so much? All I ever see Polk do is rush the ball down the court and then pull back. I never see Polk make plays or create shots for his other teamates. I think he is solid, but his complete lack of a shot hurts us. I think Tommie and Lisch should get more time at the point and they need to get Luke Meyer into the game. Against Iowa we had nobody who could hit an outside shot and who is sitting on the bench, but your best shooter. He needs to get some time. Danny Brown is overmatched and should not be playing over anyone. We also need to make it a rule that Ian Vouyoukas touch the ball everytime down the court. He is our best offensive threat and getting the ball into him will get shots for everyone else. When he gets the ball down low; if teams play him straight up let him go to work and if they double down he is a great passer for a big. We need the offense to go thru him. JJ has benefited from these open looks and has been knocking them down. Ian and Tommie are our only true offensive threats right now. Tommie is a great playmaker and I see him as really prospering in roles where he has the ball and creates for others. Thats all I got for now. I really enjoy the site and reading what people have to say about the team and program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 The stated intent of Brad at the beginning of the year was to run the offense through Ian, let him touch the ball on every offensive possession. This has not been as easy as it should be because of the lack of a perimeter game to open up the interior for Ian. He is double and tripled teamed because of that lack of shooting. However, he is still doing well with all the attention and I really hope the shooter's touch fairy will visit one of our players this year. (Am I really goint to say this?) Diener would have been a help to this team as a zone buster. If we aren't able to free up Ian more in the future it will be a tragedy. You thought I was going to say it didn't you? Wait I got some more, this board is full of Billiken Homers Welcome to the board let me be the first to extend the olive branch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 i second the "welcome to the board". please post often. you seem to grasp the team very well imo. i do think you are wrong implying that the offense doesnt go through ian now. he pretty much does get the ball every half court possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I wouldnt mind seeing this lineup more often IV JJ LM KL TL Polk is a true Vashon player. He's not worried about stats or minutes, he just wants to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 vtime, i like that lineup as well. i would like to see meyer playing more and i think he is the type of player that would be more effective starting. and polk with his speed might be more effective picking spots and matchups to sub in and give us a spark off the bench. this also would allow liddell to maybe handle the point more. i want the ball in liddell's hands as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Liddell is a pg and should have the ball in his hands. He scores more as a pg and gets more assists and he rebounds better so he can push. He's been doing a great job playing out of position, but he wont be at his best until he's allowed to run pg on a regular basis. Maybe Polk will start playing better off the bench as an off guard so he can be free and not have so much ballhandling responsibility and can focus on simply getting open and knocking down jumpers which is what he always did at the other levels. He never had to do anything but get open let his offense set up his assists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Two things - Luke has not shown anything in games to prove he should be starting. He has to earn his time and apparently he has not done so in practice - not saying he is not trying but trying and doing are two different things. Secondly - it really does not matter who is running the point. Once the ball is thrown inbounds, any of the guards can handle that responsibility so I am not sure why some are so worried about that issue. I would say, that the best ball handler we have on the team is Polk - he protects the ball best and can beat the press best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 He kept us alive in the first half of the Kennesaw State game that was horrible and hit two HUGE jumpers. He had two HUGE baskets against Gonzaga. He's been HUGE. Give him a start. Plus I'm tired of the Ross Varner's of the world working hard in practice and starting over the Izik Ohanon's of the world. FREE LUKE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaleJarr Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 "It really does not matter who is running the point. Once the ball is thrown inbounds, any of the guards can handle that responsibility so I am not sure why some are so worried about that issue". Actually it does matter who runs the point, especially on this Billiken team that has gone half-court with no real threats from the perimeter. Polk's greatest asset is his speed. Once he crosses half-court his asset is negated as he rarely attacks the rim. Where are the easy baskets his speed should create. "I would say, that the best ball handler we have on the team is Polk - he protects the ball best and can beat the press best". Agreed his is the best ball handler, however he is showing little courage with the ball. He is too cautious with the ball. He won't give it up to streaking teammates, won't throw the oop to Tommie when it's there. Hell in HS, Tommie's teammates were throwing him 35ft oops. Even Lisch said that no matter where you throw it , Tommie will go get it. Give the ball up, I hate seeing Polk get past his man only to pull it out. As far as breaking the press, teams are not really pressing as they seemed to take their chances with the Bills perimeter shooting. Teams have taken the approach of not giving the Bills anything easy. Basically with Polk on the floor teams do not have to account for his presence, because even on kick outs Polk will pump fake,take that little hop, and pass it off with the shot clock running down instead of taking the open shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I agree with Vee. Luke is one of those players who can be aptly named "a winner." I know that is an overused expression, but in his case it applies. As a four year starter in high school, he often carried the team on his back, while being double teamed in most instances--and his team won. He knows what to do and how to do it, including setting up other players, to create victories. If I'm not mistaken, the Bill's fared much better as a team when he finally began to start last year. I know that they only had nine wins, but I wonder how many of those nine wins came when Luke was a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I agree. Besides, somebody has to hit some jump shots. I like LM's intensity on the court, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I agree that Polk has to improve his shot but I am sorry Luke has not shown that he has a shot this year either so to say that Luke should start over Polk at this time is just silly. I disagree that once Polk crosses the half court line then his ball handling skills are negated. The reason he has not been able to drive to the basket more lately is the same reason that Tommie is not slashing more - the paint is clogged up with the defense sagging on IV - no place to go. If KL or DP or even TL could start consistently hitting perimeter shots - not necessarily 3 pters even 12-15' from the basket it would start to open IV up for some passes when they drive the basket. Polk has a good shooting % from that range this year and wish he would take it more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I agree with your comments about Polk on the break. For a team that can't score from the outside I would rather see us attack the basket on the break. Take a chance. Force the issue. Throw the lob to Tommie. Kick the ball to Kevin for a trailing three. Brad is probably reluctant to do this because he wants Ian to touch the ball. Danny Brown would certainly be more valuable in this type of game. Brad says he wants to run,but I think he is afraid to, and can't live, or won't live with the turnovers and occasional bad shot you will get in a more aggressive style. If we won't play this style then I agree with posters who say Dwayne should play less and Luke more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Welcome to the board. I would say ...it isn't a matter of lack of a killer instinct, it is a lack of players and lack of talent....not to be harsh, but that is how it is...the hops it with improvement of the more exciting young players, SLU will develop a player or two with the needed killer instinct to take a game over down the stretch. SLU would have very few wins if not for the improvement of IV. VERY few wins. He also needs help, and won't get it this year inside. I would agree with the notion that Liddell needs to touch the ball more, and even play point more...unfortunately this is out of necessity. He is NOT a point guard. But SLU is lost offensively without Liddell creating for people like IV and himself. The hope was the Dwyane Polk would be better at this point, and be able to get into the lane and create for others and himself much much more often. I was concerned about this...what I didn't expect was Polk to be such a poor shooter. A nice spark plug off the bench increasing the speed of the game, but not a starer imo. Speed is obviously his greatest asset. Obviously SLU needs more players who are great athletes who are also good hoops players like Liddell. In the past and present, SLU has had too many guys who take 3-4 yars to develop, instead of 2. Getting better athletes is a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaleJarr Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 When you are that small and at such a height disadvantage, you better be a lights out shooter or defender. Polk is neither. The Iowa game is a great example of what I mean as far as defending goes. You had a guy (Horner) playing his first game after a serious injury, a 3 week layoff and he comes in and not only score 17 points, but he plays 36 minutes with only 2 TO's against 6 assists. It's as if Polk had a gentlemen agreement with Horner not to test Horner's knee. Polk should have be harassing Horner the moment he stepped off the team bus. Make him test the knee! On the season Polk has 28 fouls, less than 2.5 per game. Too cautious. Needs to start playing with reckless abandon. The team has enough guard to survive Polk sitting due to foul trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Polk did a nice job defending Horner - were you at the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Slu fan for years; I sit behind the guys who fire up the opposing bench's fans with lots of enthusiasm. Too bad some of this doesn't spill on to the floor. I hope we don't lose these guys when the beer is turned off at the on campus arena. And I wish there was a curtain call buzzer so they could get to their seats in time for the game to start in both halves. If Polk doesn't penetrate and only plays half court ball it must be better in Soderberg's game plan than last year when we couldn't get across the time line or play against the press. I remember Claggett and I loved him but he always had a trailer because he knew his little body was not going to do anything but get broken if he went to the middle. Husak has got to play, especially in games that we are expected to win. Why was he not in Chicago State game? He won't be ready when Ian is out of a game, hurt or graduates if he only practiices with the team. Why not try Husak and Ian at the same time.? Having JJ play second string center instead of forward may be a break for Ian but letting Ian land on the floor 5 times against Chicago was asking for the end of the season injury. They just have to throw the ball over Husak's head if they expect him to catch it. And he has to run down the court with the other players not trail by 40 feet. Why Justin Johnson didn't start every game after Depaul two years ago is beyond me; he has the best body on the floor for the Bills with the exception of the new trimmer Ian. I think Ian may be the best true center we have seen in years. Does Soderberg train the defenders that they can only guard or chase their man two feet beyond the 3 point line? Lisch stopped short a number of times when his guy turned and fired 5 feet out and made it. You would think the player and the coach would agree at half that it is okay to go beyond the perimeter if you have an athlete that can hit from 30 feet. This team will get better and Brad is better this year. last year everyone got along well as a team but they seemed to be taking turns in the doghouse. Is that what happened to Luke last week Luke has a nose for the ball. So do a lot of guys but his speed is just not there. He and AJ need to lose weight or get sprint training. They both hold guys shirts instead of running That's it for now; I've been reluctant to do this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewprez Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Don't take this as having a negative tone (it's just honest curiousity), but what is it about Luke that makes everyone think he is amazing? I didn't see him play in high school or anything so my perspective is one-sided, but I didn't think he had a real breakaway rookie season last year. Is it his offensive potential? Is he a big defensive threat? Does he have something that I just haven't seen from my angle (sitting behind the basket one gets a completely different view of the action than if you sit on the sides)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 His bio reads that he can hit an uncontested three point shot, although with a low and somewhat slow release. If he can do that consistantly in a game, he'll be the best outside shooter on the team (right now.) Hence the call for him to play....... Hopefully Lisch and Polk can get it back together from outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 cheeseman, he wasnt torched, but horner did successfully post him up 3x in a row early in the second half that probably changed the tone of the game. i dont think polk is a bad defender, but with that speed, he should be more of a pest than what he is. and if he doesnt use that speed and quickness to make life miserable, he really becomes a disadvantage when the opposing team has two guards the size of iowa's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 >Don't take this as having a negative tone (it's just honest >curiousity), but what is it about Luke that makes everyone >think he is amazing? I didn't see him play in high school or >anything so my perspective is one-sided, but I didn't think >he had a real breakaway rookie season last year. Is it his >offensive potential? Is he a big defensive threat? Does he >have something that I just haven't seen from my angle >(sitting behind the basket one gets a completely different >view of the action than if you sit on the sides)? He's a 6'5 physical specimen who can play 3 positions and shoot lights out when open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 JJ did get suspended last year until after Thanksgiving. I dont know what for, but I know he was in the doghouse because of it. And we also had Ohanon who was our best player with Bryant out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 i have been told beer will be available in the new arena, so quash that concern!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 welcome goslu68! it is always good to see other passionate fans find our site and join in. you present a lot of discussion topics and i would like to comment on some of them. goslu68 said, "Slu fan for years; I sit behind the guys who fire up the opposing bench's fans with lots of enthusiasm. Too bad some of this doesn't spill on to the floor. I hope we don't lose these guys when the beer is turned off at the on campus arena." it is my understanding that we will continue to have beer at our on campus arena when completed. unless something has been announced recently about that. goslu68 said "Why not try Husak and Ian at the same time.?" if we ever face a team with similar physical size, that would make sense. however, i doubt that ian would keep up with most of the power forwards in the league and husak the same with a lot of the centers. now if we would decide to play a zone, maybe it would work. also, if husak and ian are in the game, that would require a different offense as right now we play more or less a 4-1 offense. i just dont see ian being effective 20 feet from the basket and the same for husak. goslu68 said, "Having JJ play second string center instead of forward may be a break for Ian but letting Ian land on the floor 5 times against Chicago was asking for the end of the season injury." i agree that the style of play that chicago state played begged for more fouls. however, if that would have happened, it is quite possible that bob ramsey would have quit. we dont want that to happen. goslu68 said, "Why Justin Johnson didn't start every game after Depaul two years ago is beyond me; he has the best body on the floor for the Bills with the exception of the new trimmer Ian." Coach soderberg has said on a number of occaisons that justin johnson has a high division one body but not the heart and head to go with it. as of late, judging by coach soderberg's comments about justin, that has apparently begun to change. with the exception of the ole miss game which might have been justin's worst performance of his billiken career, justin has really played at a different level imo than in previous season. that comes from his heart not his muscles. goslu68 said, "I think Ian may be the best true center we have seen in years." no argument of that. the transformation that ian has made from last season is nothing short of amazing. goslu68 said, "Does Soderberg train the defenders that they can only guard or chase their man two feet beyond the 3 point line? Lisch stopped short a number of times when his guy turned and fired 5 feet out and made it. You would think the player and the coach would agree at half that it is okay to go beyond the perimeter if you have an athlete that can hit from 30 feet." i wouldnt chase a defender that far out unless i have seen him make it a few times first. making a 30 footer at any level is no small feat! goslu68 said, "This team will get better and Brad is better this year. last year everyone got along well as a team but they seemed to be taking turns in the doghouse. Is that what happened to Luke last week Luke has a nose for the ball." i think as in every year that brad has been here, we are seeing the midseason cut in the rotation. brad has stated each year he prefers to use 8 players. with us having 6 quality guards, that means someone is always going to sit. luke drew the short straw. if not him it would have been brown, or lisch or polk. someone wont play. i am not saying i agree with it, but i just dont think it is a doghouse thing as much as a numbers thing with coach soderberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 broy said "i think as in every year that brad has been here, we are seeing the midseason cut in the rotation. brad has stated each year he prefers to use 8 players. with us having 6 quality guards, that means someone is always going to sit. luke drew the short straw. if not him it would have been brown, or lisch or polk. someone wont play. i am not saying i agree with it, but i just dont think it is a doghouse thing as much as a numbers thing with coach soderberg." i agree with this assessment on the rotation being cut. my questions are why did it happen and will it continue?? i realize there are only 200 minutes, and you want your best players out there, but some possibilities i see are... has this happened in the past b/c there was a severe dropoff in talent from player 8 to players 9-11 (we don't ususally have more players than this)?? is this just the coach's way?? how do you ever get more than 8 quality players on your roster if a player knows someone will have to get hurt or leave for them to play?? how do players 9-xx get better with virtually no game playing time from christmas until the next november?? please help me to understand this method which frustrates me a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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