more on scheduling

[p diddy]

AJ,

If you look at slu's schedule over the years, it shows that not only can they attract the high-profile schools to home and home, but they will also play the same series with top mid-major programs as well.

per example, we just finished a series with uw-milwaukee (they made it to the Sweet 16 last year and they are probably bound for the tournament again this year with almost their entire team back.

we played butler in brad's first year in INdy. the same butler that also went to the sweet 16 after beating Mississippi STate and Louisville.

we played oral roberts (won 25 games last year)

Southern illinois almost every year (we all know about the great success they've enjoyed).

we played valpo the year they went to the sweet 16.

we continued our long-standing series non-conference series with dayton.

those are tough, tough games, not to mention very dangerous games. that is in addition to playing the high major nonconference games and the brutal c-usa slate.

i love the slu-mo. state series because of the regional action and i wish they played every year, despite our lack of success against the bears. it's a great game to play because msu has a solid tradition to success and they recruit locally as well. but when we don't play, you can visibly see that we're not replacing them with some scrubs. even with a young team this year, the scheduled isn't littered with a bunch of bums. (which i wouldn't have minded this year).

so, don't try to say that slu is afraid to play msu. they took a break for awhile and now they are apparently back. did you also know that msu and slu did not play in '98 when larry hughes was a freshman when the bills were slated to host. we played at carbondale that year.

Hmmmm...

finally, this also illustrates why the MVC (despite being a tremendous basketball conference that's raising its profile), wasn't the move for slu to make. there would be no gonzagas, iowas, north carolinas, illinois', arizonas, kansas' or georgia techs, coming to the savvis on a home and home basis. as a member of the c-usa and now A-10, we are able to continue to play those teams and still play top-fligh mid-majors as well. the really good MVC schools have trouble getting top schools to come to their place, unless it's an instate power that is obligated to do so (see the situation in iowa).

[TheGoat]

Very well said.

[ACE]

Excellent post pdiddy. The only one saying SLU is afraid to play Missouri State is AJ. Consider the source. He has no credibility. He's just desperate to try to deflect some of the criticism from his beloved Quin. Looks like SLU is going to play Southwest again like they have more often than not for the last 20 years. AJ is wrong again.

[cheeseman]

Playing SMS really does not gain us anything - I am not talking about not wanting to play them - what I am talking about is how many MVC or Ohio Valley teams do you put on the schedule? - one from each is fine and how you rotate them is your choice. Them problem with SMS is that they do not travel well - they do not bring that many fans to the game so if you choose to play SIU then SMS is out - you could go the other way and play SMS and then SIU is out - your call but no advantage to playing both each year. I still advocate a balanced schedule - 2-3 gimmes, 5-6 tough ones, and 2-3 good teams that are a toss up. This will give you a respectable RPI and prepares you for the upcoming conf. period without beating yourself to death and creating a losing psyche with the players. If you can come out of the preconf period 9-3 or 10-2 or even 8-4 (depending on who you played) then you will be well positioned for the conf play and can still get up to the 20 win total. Coming out 6-6 will not cut it.

[billiken_roy]

i think playing against missouri state will always be better for us than playing jackson state.

[aj_arete]

Coach Soderberg is behind the move to playing SIUC and MO State on a less regular basis. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought SLU was contemplating playing BOTH SIUC and MO State every OTHER year. That is a CHANGE in policy. Now what's the motivating factor, that's all CONJECTURE. Is it fear of losing to a lesser-resourced rival, like SIUC or MO State or other factors? Who knows?

I do know many fans on here raked Quin over the coals for ending the SLU series and many on here speculated that it was because he was afraid. That may or may not be the case, but I do know that Mizzou played CHALLENGING schedules over the last few years. Of course, this year is an anomaly, but it makes sense. He's got a young team and he needs a winning record to KEEP his job. If Mizzou enjoys success this year and has a veteran squad in future years, there is no doubt in my mind he'll toughen up the schedule.

What's funny is that pdiddy is using the SAME argument that Quin and his supporters used a few years ago. Yes, we're not playing SLU, but we're playing really tough teams, such as Syracuse, Gonzaga and others in replacements.

You can't argue both sides of the coin. If you're going to knock Mizzou for ducking SLU to play TOUGHER teams, don't complain when the same retort is given to SLU for replacing MO State and SIUC to play 'tougher' teams.

[slu72]

We have 12 non com games:

3 cupcakes: +230 rpi

3 mid majors: +100-150 rpi (SMS, SoCon type schools)

3 50-99 (Hawaii, SIU, DePaul, Marquette's etc)

3 Top 25 teams (UNC, Zags, UL, etc)because we can get home and homes and they are money makers, recruit games, etc.

That's pretty representative to find out where we fit and not bad for our RPI. Also not bad for the record: 3 w's from the cakes, hopefully 3 w's from the mid's, 2 w's from the 50-99ers, and a home upset against a top 25. That would be 9-3 or 8-4 going into conference. You pick up 11 or 12 wins in conference your at 20/21 wins, good showing in the conf tournament, you're dancing.

Face it we don't have any real rivalry games. Those that think we are Missouri State, SEMO we don't think they're good enough, much like Mizzery thinks of us, although we're wrong based on recent results. I'd love to see us have Mizzery and Illini every other year.

[aj_arete]

He quite frankly favors a team playing as few cupcakes as possible. He stated that Mizzou should reduce their number of cupcakes from four to three and use that fourth game to play SLU. While SLU has their share of tough games on their schedule, they still have Eastern Illinois, Jackson State, Oakland and Kennesaw State. What's so tough about replacing one of those games with Missouri State?

Remember that's what many SLU fans were advocating when Mizzou played FOUR cupcakes. Let's look back at Mizzou's 2003-2004 schedule. I'm not using last year because they played in the Guardian Classic.

In 2003-2004, Mizzou played FOUR cupcakes just like SLU: Coppin State, Oakland, UNC-Greensboro and Belmont. However look who else they played: Indiana, Gonzaga, Memphis and Iowa. Please tell me the difference with SLU's philosophy. With the exception of Billiken Roy, you're hypocritical if you don't see that SLU is using a similar tactic as Mizzou, which is to replace a regional rival with a stronger out of state opponent.

http://mutigers.collegesports.com/sports/m...sched-2003.html

[Billiken Law]

The MVC, now considered above a mid-major (with attendence higher than the A10+4) would attract the same programs to St. Louis (the key is the market) as is done currently. Teams are coming to St. Louis because of the market, the arena size and the competition offered by the Bills (or, in the case of UNC, a local kid on the team). It makes no difference that we're in the A-10+4 and not the MVC. The biggest impediment MVC programs have to getting high profile teams to do home and homes is the size of their markets. At the same time, the same troubles dog programs like St. Bona, Duquense, Richmond, and other low profile A-10+4 teams.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9033499

Also, wasn't it explained that when it came to playing SIU and MSU that an adjustment was made so that one would be at home and one away every year, as opposed to the previous arrangment that led to playing each one the road or each at home every year?

[Billikan]

There is no way an MVC team could have the schedule we have in the next two weeks. We play North Carolina--ranked 23rd on the road, Gonzaga ranked 9th and Iowa ranked 11th. This has to be one of the toughest stretches of games for any team in the country.

The A 10 schools are much more well known nationally--Xavier, Temple, U Mass, St Joseph's, Dayton and now with Charlotte and the emergence of GW gives the conference much more national publicity, particularly in the northeast where most the major media is located.

I cannot understand why we are even having this MVC debate any longer! We are in the A 10 and we are not going to move to the MVC.

[ACE]

>Coach Soderberg is behind the move to playing SIUC and MO

>State on a less regular basis. Now correct me if I'm wrong,

>but I thought SLU was contemplating playing BOTH SIUC and MO

>State every OTHER year. That is a CHANGE in policy. Now

>what's the motivating factor, that's all CONJECTURE. Is it

>fear of losing to a lesser-resourced rival, like SIUC or MO

>State or other factors? Who knows?

>

>I do know many fans on here raked Quin over the coals for

>ending the SLU series and many on here speculated that it

>was because he was afraid. That may or may not be the case,

>but I do know that Mizzou played CHALLENGING schedules over

>the last few years. Of course, this year is an anomaly, but

>it makes sense. He's got a young team and he needs a

>winning record to KEEP his job. If Mizzou enjoys success

>this year and has a veteran squad in future years, there is

>no doubt in my mind he'll toughen up the schedule.

>

>What's funny is that pdiddy is using the SAME argument that

>Quin and his supporters used a few years ago. Yes, we're

>not playing SLU, but we're playing really tough teams, such

>as Syracuse, Gonzaga and others in replacements.

>

>You can't argue both sides of the coin. If you're going to

>knock Mizzou for ducking SLU to play TOUGHER teams, don't

>complain when the same retort is given to SLU for replacing

>MO State and SIUC to play 'tougher' teams.

There's a difference betwen playing on a "less regular basis" compared to not playing at all. Look at how many times SLU has played SMS and SIU over the last 20 years. Now, look at the same period at how many times Mizzou has played SLU and SMS.

It would be one thing if Mizzou replaced SLU with Syracuse, but after `01 Quin replaced SLU with Valpo. He got scared sh!tless after playing that three game series and wanted out - even though they were all three hotly contested games that were decided in the final minute.

Here's another big difference. SLU IS still planning on playing SMS in the future. What is Mizzou's plan to play SLU or SMS in the future? Put down the Mizzou pom poms AJ and get into reality.

[aj_arete]

because SLU fans are having selective memory. This is not a question of moving to the MVC. The question is whether to schedule four low profile teams or three low profile teams and add both MO State and SIUC EVERY year.

If you want Mizzou to play TWO regional rivals every year, Illinois and SLU. Then why can't SLU play two regional rivals every year, MO State and SIUC.

[aj_arete]

that when they add Missouri State, they will DROP SIUC. You still have the SAME scenario where they only play ONE regional rival. Explain how that is different than Mizzou?

[ACE]

>The MVC, now considered above a mid-major (with attendence

>higher than the A10+4) would attract the same programs to

>St. Louis (the key is the market) as is done currently.

>Teams are coming to St. Louis because of the market, the

>arena size and the competition offered by the Bills (or, in

>the case of UNC, a local kid on the team). It makes no

>difference that we're in the A-10+4 and not the MVC. The

>biggest impediment MVC programs have to getting high profile

>teams to do home and homes is the size of their markets. At

>the same time, the same troubles dog programs like St. Bona,

>Duquense, Richmond, and other low profile A-10+4 teams.

>

>http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9033499

>

>Also, wasn't it explained that when it came to playing SIU

>and MSU that an adjustment was made so that one would be at

>home and one away every year, as opposed to the previous

>arrangment that led to playing each one the road or each at

>home every year?

Looks like they play Virginia, Seton Hall and Wake Forest at home this year. I'm not sure there is an MVC team that would have three comparable home games.

Virginia goes on the road and plays in-state Richmond? Imagine that. Not every state school is gutless.

[Billiken Rich]

Are you honestly comparing SMS to Illinois? You truely are delusional if that's the case.

PS Bubba. Last time I checked SIUC and Eastern Il. are both Il. Teams. If the Tigers get to count IL as a regional team we can count Eastern IL. I wish you were working for Missouri. It'd be less work...for us.

[kshoe]

SIU next year? During Brad's pregame on the big screen at the Savvis he truly enjoys this game and hopes to continue playing it. Didnd't sound like a guy looking to drop them next year.

[kshoe]

and played them last year.

[Box and Won]

Where did you hear that?

[aj_arete]

the St. Louis METRO area which includes small portions of Illinois, has a strong base of University of Illinois alumni. The same can be said for SIUC and Missouri State.

I think it's a huge stretch to say there is ANY local interest in Eastern Illinois. However if that makes you feel better, go ahead and call Eastern Illinois a 'regional' rival.

[aj_arete]

but Coach Soderberg this offseason discussed the possibility of playing Missouri State and SIUC on a rotating basis. Now let me know if there's an agreement on the table saying that SLU has a home and home series signed with SIUC. I am not aware of any agreement. P Diddy, you know the answer to that. Rather than do your hit and runs, confirm to us that SLU has SIGNED a home and home series with SIUC.

If that is the case, I stand corrected. Otherwise, I see nothing but hypocrisy here.

[kshoe]

Springfield is 215 miles away. Simple geography tells me which is more "regional."

[Box and Won]

I believe the thinking is that we want to play both teams, but just not both on the road in the same season.

[kshoe]

play SIU next year. Talk about hit and runs.

[3star_recruit]

Oakland is not a cupcake, so we really only have three cupcakes. Xavier, who's level I hope we reach someday, truly has four cupcakes on the schedule and they go to the tournament virtually every year. There's nothing wrong with the schedule. As for not wanting to play SMS every year, that's just self-preservation. SMS has owned us over the last 7-8 years. Who wants to keep losing to the same mid-major 2 out of 3 years just to prove they're not afraid? That's like Superman intentionally boxing an opponent with kryptonite gloves. Mizzou, on the other hand, won 2 of the 3 matchups.

[boomerang]

what 2 regional rivals will Sms be playing? Why Sms cancel the series against Semo? Could it have been the 2 losses in 3 years? What 2 regional rivals will Sms be playing from here on out?