Mobile-iken Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/3853018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 With all due respect, I offer FoxSports a big middle finger. From the article: "In 2005-2006, the A-10 — which last had 10 teams in 1991 — adds Charlotte and St. Louis, formerly of Conference USA. But while bigger may or may not be inherently better, 14 teams should make for a more stable league than did 12. The 49ers, NCAA tournament participants in seven of the last nine seasons, show no signs of slowing down under coach Bobby Lutz. Similarly, St. Louis, having missed five consecutive editions of March Madness, is unlikely to speed up under coach Brad Soderberg." We are going to surprise a boatload of eastcoast losers in the next few years....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 This is the second national publication that has suggested that Brad is on the hot seat. I wonder where thet get that since most people I know think he is secure with his new contract and all.I would think he would have to have a terrible year,[5 or 6 wins] with turmoil for the hot seat to begin. I think we will surprise a lot of people next year. Our expectations are quite low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I wish the schedule would come out so we can start making some predictions. It's got to be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I'll agree with Rich on the last half of this statement .... "in a few years." I think the publication is right on at this point ... a whole lot of questions going on. Th eonly things they said about us were slow down offense, tough defense, and Tommie Liddell. As for the hot seat .. show me a coach who ain't. Sure, the Coach K's of the world are all okey-dokey but they're the exception rather than the rule. Hugs is even on the hot seat. Its cylical. Brad adnthe program are on a down right now .... the only way is up. To me, we are at the same point we were at the start of Claggs sophomore year. While not all the circumstances are the same (coaching change, five wins, etc.) the feel, to me, is the same. Any further down and the sting of rock bottom will be as real as it was in the Ekker years. But at least we are consdiered better than Richmond, Rhode Island and St. Bonnies. Or so they say .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Vegas always offers an over/under wins for the season proposition bet. I think this year would be a good year to take the over on that one. It'll be a low number. It may be as low as 9 1/2. I can't wait to see what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 The article seems to suggest we should fire Brad now because we won't get any better with him as a coach. This writer will be shocked in the not too distant future, along with most of the east coast press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Taj - I disagree that we are now at the same point as when Highmark and Claggett were here. We are better off - here is why: 1. KL and TL are better players coming out of h.s. then where Highmark and Claggett - this is not a diss on those two just a statement of facts. Highmark was not being recruited by any D1 major school and Claggett was basically a mid major recruit. They both were great players for SLU but not at the same level of KL and TL when they came into the program. 2. Spoon - and I am generally a supporter of him - never put two consecutive years of good recruiting together. Brad has done that already - DP, LM, and DB along with KL and TL the next year. If he can get another good recruit or two then he will have 3 good years in a row - only something Spoon could dream of. 3. We won more games last year and were more competitive than Highmark and Clags first year at SLU. We have more to build on and with. Now all that being said, I am anxiously awaiting to see how this coming year turns out. As far as Brad on the hot seat - any coach who has a losing record after 3 years and only won 9 games is going to be considered on the hot seat by those not close to the program. After all, some of the posters have said he is in trouble. I think he would have to really screw up again for him to be let go this year - I did not think it would happen last year but it did so I guess anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Taj, you stated that "Brad and the program are on a down right now".... I can only assume in your mind that Brad's going 16-14 (9-7 C-USA), then 19-13 (9-7 C-USA) and then a 9-21 (6-10 C-USA) in 2004-5 is a downward spiral. Apparently, no value is attached to his first two season and the only thing that matters is the most recent season. btw, I think that is exactly how some of the national publications view SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 >btw, I think that is exactly how some of the >national publications view SLU. And they'd be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 .... while I can agree with your points as singular entities ... some of your answer to mine is based on misreading my post. I said "we are at the same point we were at the start of Claggs SOPHOMORE year." In other words, not when they were recruits but after the disastrous year that was 5 and 23 and showed Grawer the door. I beleive they went something like 12 and 17 that second year and then went rocketing skyward their junior and senior years. I believe nine wins from last year is rock bottom and simialr to the summer of five. I don't believe that we can go any lower and that is based on what you and others are relaying about TL and KL. But excuse me for not being any more excited at this point because I believe it is not wise to entrust the mail to untested rookies. Hughes was an unbelievable exception and, in my belief, a never-to-be-repeated event at good ol' Saint Louie Ewey. Brad putting together good recruiting years is purely subjective. I've seen too many saviors and highly ranked recruiting classes in my 30 or so years. Johnnie Parker, Sr. JUCOs David Burns and Willie Wittenburg. Douglas and Gray. JUCO nirvana in Manuel, Tadysak & Ivester. Jim Roder and Ted Mimlitz' transfers "home." Julian Winfield et. al., Tyrone Caswell. Larry Hughes. Ricky Cranford. Now Liddell, Lisch and Obi. Maybe it wil be true ala some of the above. Maybe it will suck ala some of the above. In my book, a great recruiting class could never have a nine win season. Not a GOOD class anyway. And again, you're third point is based on a missed interpretation. And I don't think the Claggs and Hmark that came in their freshman year mattered as much as some think in the long run. I would argue that that team got where it did based on the engine ... which to me was the eventual eligibility of H Waldman. Without H, I don't think those teams go as far as they did. H's penetration, court sense, ability to make a jumper, and distribution skills are highly overlooked IMO. Hughes' talent may have carried his day, but H was the ultimate team player in my book -- probably the best that's ever played out his eligibility at SLU in the modern era. I'm sorry ... I do not like putting the mortgage in the hands of freshman like we must this year. But I will do so because there is no other option available. And I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised. Fox Sports reviewed this tema and put it rightly where it belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 ... you pulled my quote exactly as I said and I still stand by it. Can you counter by saying a nine win season is an "up?" Now, as for "spiral" please note that I never said that .. you did. My "down" is a snapshot in time ... not a picture painted over time. Because I would agree with your dispute that the two previous seasons added to the last, do not plot a pattern .... a spiral to me would be 14 losses follwed by 19 losses followed by 22 and so on. A continuation downward. I am looking at last year as more of an aberration (I hope) and not a trend. But it is still a "down" moment in the overall program, yes? Do I think he is on the hot seat? No I do not. And I agree that most publications, looking from the "what have you done for me lately" perch, would write this as such. But us in the know know better, right? But given that even the most local reporter doesn't bother to check facts, is this report any more surprising? Again .. a team that won nine games, lost both its leading scorers, and has a freshman class with two knee injuries and a prep player .... I'd have to write the same thing as they did and with that I am not disputing. I welcome disputes, but please quote me directly and use what I say. Adding spiral was not my intent and if it was, I, ask those who know me, would have written it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I think it's safe to say no one is content with the state of our program or has been since the legend left. Granted we had the miracle in Memphis but that was it. Two trips to the NIT, while it's amazing UB pulled that off, is not going to get the national hoops press excited about our program. Hell, it doesn't even get the local boys fired up. So they are going to rely on past performance, recuiting guru talk, and other national pubs for their research about SLU. This is evident when you read about the new A-10. Charlotte, because they've made the dance 7 out of 9 years and have Withers, is getting all the ink and we're treated like the red headed stepchild. This upcoming season when all is said and done is going to be looked at in two ways: 1.) A rebuilding year in which we make great strides and the light at the end of the tunnel is not another train. 2.) SLU is sliding down the slippery pole of being a perennial loser. I hope it's the former, if not, some of our prized frosh may start looking elsewhere and the whole process starts all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Highmark had no other D1 offers? I seem to recall that Norm wanted him, and I just don't buy that we were the only program to see what he could be. In regard to Claggs, U of IL was on probation then; otherwise they would have been all over him. That was what Grawer told us - that they thought he was the gem of the class. Turned out to be, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Taj - sorry if I misread any of your post. The point still is that in my opinion we are better off than at the start of Highmark and Clags second year. Also, you can not expect 3 freshmen by themselves to turn a team around when the coach won't play them. Had Brad played them more and earlier, the record might have been as good as the second year of Highmark and Clags. I do agree that H was a key component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Grawer can say what he wants to fans - pr spin - but when Clags was thinking about leaving when Spoon was hired, he said he was looking to go to Northen Iowa - not a high major - so what happened to IL? Also, Norm was not looking seriously at Highmark - he could have gotten him if he wanted him. Thankfully both came to SLU and stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Good points - but unless Brad really screws up, I can not help but to think that we can not be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 cheeseman, I think I have to disagree with you and agree with Taj on this point. The Billikens this year do somewhat resemble the team at the beginning of the 1992-93 season. The nucleus of the team is young and coming off of a rock-bottom season. I will grant you that the 2005-06 squad has a better center and better freshmen than the 1992-93 squad (though it remains to be seen if those players will improve the Bills' shooting and rebounding enough to be significantly better than the '92-93 squad), but the '92-93 squad's sophomores provided significantly production than I feel we can expect from the '05-06 sophomores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Taj, we agree....your word was "down" and my word was "spiral". 2004-5 was indeed a down season after going 16-14 and 19-13 the previous two years. I'm not sure some fans, and certainly the media, feels as good about SLU after a 19 win season, as they feel as bad about SLU after a 9 win season. Hopefully, SLU will get a few opponents looking past them this winter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 .. to cheese, tseug, 72 and thicks. I appreciate the intelligent banter. Right now, if I had to pick an arrow, I'd say mine on the program is pointing up. It has to be when you're a Bills fan. But it is up because right now, I'm believing the stuff coming from all the posters ... that TL, Kl and Obi will be as good as projected and that Ian will be more Ian the Terrible than Ian the kid that starred on 90210. Call me skeptical because I have heard talk like this before. And more times than not, I've been disappointed. Rather than doom and gloom, call me extremely well-guarded optimistic fool praying on bent knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Face it when you're a Bills fan the first two purchases you make are royal blue knee pads and rosary beads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 My alcohol purchases increased... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 mine too, but can't blame it all on the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 there is nothing to add to what cheeseman said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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