Join A Grassroots Movement for Change of AD and MBB Coach

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

Have you considered the fact that the BoT and others you are contacting already agree with you and that these efforts are a bit unnecessary?  I would also add that if you are expecting some response to all this, you won't get one.  That's not how these things are handled.  I just feel like you're spinning your wheels trying to get something done that is possibly already in the works.  Maybe patience and a deep breath might be the better path.  I'm rather sure than nothing will happen until the end of the season.

I have. I've also considered that many may not even realize how crazy Ford's salary is relative to like schools and results. So that's why I emailed the entire Athletic Department.

As for your point about the response that's bad management. See my previous post on what the response should be. I learned that at SLU. I have a buddy former mayor of a small town he said his secret to success was just listening to complaints. He'd listen, thank them for being a concerned citizen and tell them he'd look into the issue.

Also, this is an insurgency. They may not respond to me, but my message was read by a lot of people. They know there's issues. They know there's unrest. They see the criticism in black and white. If the AD deals with this internally the way they deal with this externally which is to ignore, it'll only cause deeper fissures. 

When people are unhappy and there's greater pressure things tend to go wrong. Amping up the pressure during what is already a stressful time makes an event leading to change more likely.  Or maybe something already happened and it will come out now.  Here's an excerpt of something I wrote,

"If Coach Ford does not resign is may be possible to fire him for cause. Investigation by SLU may uncover that Coach Ford violated SLU policies regarding COVID-19. It is reported that Coach Ford hosted a 21st birthday for his son with the team. After the party many players contracted COVID-19 and it directly affected the season. This action would be in violation of SLU polices during the time, which forbid public SLU gatherings on or off campus. If any other student or employee of SLU was dismissed/terminated due to violation of protocols and Coach Ford, the highest profile employee is allowed to continue to make millions of dollars, this opens SLU up to lawsuits for inequitable treatment. Much has been made of Coach Ford’s bad luck, but you make your own luck. Ford’s actions, roster construction and lack of ability have led us to this point."

So you read that and you or a close coworker got in trouble for violating the COVID policy. Is it true? I don't know, probably. Would be easy to find out. It's inequitable treatment if you got in trouble and Ford didn't. That's the kinda stuff that brings down organizations.

Insurgency Strategery

[cgeldmacher]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:59 PM, TheA_Bomb said:

I have. I've also considered that many may not even realize how crazy Ford's salary is relative to like schools and results. So that's why I emailed the entire Athletic Department.

As for your point about the response that's bad management. See my previous post on what the response should be. I learned that at SLU. I have a buddy former mayor of a small town he said his secret to success was just listening to complaints. He'd listen, thank them for being a concerned citizen and tell them he'd look into the issue.

Also, this is an insurgency. They may not respond to me, but my message was read by a lot of people. They know there's issues. They know there's unrest. They see the criticism in black and white. If the AD deals with this internally the way they deal with this externally which is to ignore, it'll only cause deeper fissures. 

When people are unhappy and there's greater pressure things tend to go wrong. Amping up the pressure during what is already a stressful time makes an event leading to change more likely.  Or maybe something already happened and it will come out now.  Here's an excerpt of something I wrote,

"If Coach Ford does not resign is may be possible to fire him for cause. Investigation by SLU may uncover that Coach Ford violated SLU policies regarding COVID-19. It is reported that Coach Ford hosted a 21st birthday for his son with the team. After the party many players contracted COVID-19 and it directly affected the season. This action would be in violation of SLU polices during the time, which forbid public SLU gatherings on or off campus. If any other student or employee of SLU was dismissed/terminated due to violation of protocols and Coach Ford, the highest profile employee is allowed to continue to make millions of dollars, this opens SLU up to lawsuits for inequitable treatment. Much has been made of Coach Ford’s bad luck, but you make your own luck. Ford’s actions, roster construction and lack of ability have led us to this point."

So you read that and you or a close coworker got in trouble for violating the COVID policy. Is it true? I don't know, probably. Would be easy to find out. It's inequitable treatment if you got in trouble and Ford didn't. That's the kinda stuff that brings down organizations.

Insurgency Strategery

 

 

"Thanks for being a concerned citizen.  I'll look into the issue." is your politician friend's polite way of saying I'm going to do what I was going to do anyway but thanks for trying educate me on an issue I was already aware of.  I'm pretty sure that the issues with our program will be addressed in some form or another after the season.  The decision makers all have two eyes and two ears and a brain capable of critical thought.  I just think that some things here may be forgone conclusions, but no one who makes these decisions at SLU will be able to tell you that.  No one will be able to give you the response you want which is "Thanks for pointing this out A-Bomb.  We're going to take action and at the end of the season some people won't be here anymore."  That's not how personnel decisions have ever worked.  You can keep getting angrier and angrier and less and less willing to stand for what's happening, but I honestly think that some form of what you want is going to happen regardless of you insurgency.  That's why I was saying to just be patient.

[TheA_Bomb]

15 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

"Thanks for being a concerned citizen.  I'll look into the issue." is your politician friend's polite way of saying I'm going to do what I was going to do anyway but thanks for trying educate me on an issue I was already aware of.  I'm pretty sure that the issues with our program will be addressed in some form or another after the season.  The decision makers all have two eyes and two years and a brain capable of critical thought.  I just think that some things here may be forgone conclusions, but no one who makes these decisions at SLU will be able to tell you that.  No one will be able to give you the response you want which is "Thanks for pointing this out A-Bomb.  We're going to take action and at the end of the season some people won't be here anymore."  That's not how personnel decisions have ever worked.  You can keep getting angrier and angrier and less and less willing to stand for what's happening, but I honestly think that some form of what you want is going to happen regardless of you insurgency.  That's why I was saying to just be patient.

 

My anecdote is simply to point out this organization isn't even doing the bare minimum. It's another data point in the indictment of negligent management. 

Getting that response is not the point.

I do understand your point and you're probably right. However, instead of just complaining, I like to be active. I'll keep going until something happens. What "we" are looking for is an impact, this is a change that is needed but we need to stop being the "Little Engine that Couldn't" and become something else. We need to decide if we're going to compete or not. Things are changing fast and if we don't act we'll be behind. 

[slufan13]

6 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

 

My anecdote is simply to point out this organization isn't even doing the bare minimum. It's another data point in the indictment of negligent management. 

Getting that response is not the point.

I do understand your point and you're probably right. However, instead of just complaining, I like to be active. I'll keep going until something happens. What "we" are looking for is an impact, this is a change that is needed but we need to stop being the "Little Engine that Couldn't" and become something else. We need to decide if we're going to compete or not. Things are changing fast and if we don't act we'll be behind. 

 

Worst case scenario is this is already going to happen you're just annoying them and they auto-delete your emails.

Best case scenario is the AD and boosters actually buy the whole "20 win season" benchmark and you're making it known that that's not acceptable.

Keep on doing what you're doing. There's no harm. 

[gobillsgo]

This is strictly hypothetical, because I haven’t held a sign since my student section days, but would a simple black and white sign saying “Ford Out” be allowed into the arena?  Or would it be confiscated/security involved to prevent it?  I feel like it wouldn’t be allowed to fly.  I’ve only ever seen that one shirt that a guy had made that said Fire Ford on one side and Fire May for not Firing Ford on the other… and what were they gonna make him do, strip down?  Also if you’re on here do you sell those shirts? 

[TheA_Bomb]

4 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

This is strictly hypothetical, because I haven’t held a sign since my student section days, but would a simple black and white sign saying “Ford Out” be allowed into the arena?  Or would it be confiscated/security involved to prevent it?  I feel like it wouldn’t be allowed to fly.  I’ve only ever seen that one shirt that a guy had made that said Fire Ford on one side and Fire May for not Firing Ford on the other… and what were they gonna make him do, strip down?  Also if you’re on here do you sell those shirts? 

Who was that guy with the shirt? We need his enthusiasm.

As for the sign. They probably wouldn't notice. Get a seat that'll be on TV often.  Do it they'll eventually notice. Well need this when we move into the embarrassing the AD phase.

[cgeldmacher]

49 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

 

My anecdote is simply to point out this organization isn't even doing the bare minimum. It's another data point in the indictment of negligent management. 

Getting that response is not the point.

I do understand your point and you're probably right. However, instead of just complaining, I like to be active. I'll keep going until something happens. What "we" are looking for is an impact, this is a change that is needed but we need to stop being the "Little Engine that Couldn't" and become something else. We need to decide if we're going to compete or not. Things are changing fast and if we don't act we'll be behind. 

Well I appreciate your loyalty and commitment to the Billikens (that's why we all come here) even if I don't agree with your methods or think that they are necessary.  I think changes will happen.  The people who the changes are going to happen to might even realize that they will occur.  If these changes are already going to occur, I just think that your actions are adding unnecessary embarrassment to folks who, regardless of the results, were giving their best effort at making a program we love successful. Did it work out? No.  Were they really, truly trying to make it work out?  Yes.  Are their transgressions worthy of the public embarrassment you are attempting to put them through? No.

[Soderball]

34 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Well I appreciate your loyalty and commitment to the Billikens (that's why we all come here) even if I don't agree with your methods or think that they are necessary.  I think changes will happen.  The people who the changes are going to happen to might even realize that they will occur.  If these changes are already going to occur, I just think that your actions are adding unnecessary embarrassment to folks who, regardless of the results, were giving their best effort at making a program we love successful. Did it work out? No.  Were they really, truly trying to make it work out?  Yes.  Are their transgressions worthy of the public embarrassment you are attempting to put them through? No.

The embarrassment happened in Carbondale last weekend. That was plenty of public embarrassment.

This is just pointing out the obvious.

[TheA_Bomb]

19 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Well I appreciate your loyalty and commitment to the Billikens (that's why we all come here) even if I don't agree with your methods or think that they are necessary.  I think changes will happen.  The people who the changes are going to happen to might even realize that they will occur.  If these changes are already going to occur, I just think that your actions are adding unnecessary embarrassment to folks who, regardless of the results, were giving their best effort at making a program we love successful. Did it work out? No.  Were they really, truly trying to make it work out?  Yes.  Are their transgressions worthy of the public embarrassment you are attempting to put them through? No.

I hear what you're saying. But both May and Ford need to go.  Until we know that's for sure going to happen. I'm not stopping, and the pressure/methods will only increase public embarrassment or otherwise. I didn't advocate jumping to protesting at games or billboards. I've posted on this board which is read by a select few and emailed the Athletic Department. If they get embarrassed go ahead and resign, problem solved.  I'm sure this is nothing compared to the Oklahoma State outcry, there's no dead longhorns in his yard. As for May he's been sucking off the teat of easy street SLU AD long enough with mixed results. Time to go run Bellarmine or Drury. To the big money donors that maybe propping up this regime, they need to know the fans aren't happy. It's no fun sitting in the front row, alone watching the team you dropped big money on lose to SIUE, SIUC or the next directional school. So pull the plug, the department is Terry Schaivo and you're the parents just hoping that 1st half against Drake was the sign of life. It's not. Remember despite having a D-K and E in the name that was Drake a MVC team not Duke. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

This is strictly hypothetical, because I haven’t held a sign since my student section days, but would a simple black and white sign saying “Ford Out” be allowed into the arena?  Or would it be confiscated/security involved to prevent it?  I feel like it wouldn’t be allowed to fly.  I’ve only ever seen that one shirt that a guy had made that said Fire Ford on one side and Fire May for not Firing Ford on the other… and what were they gonna make him do, strip down?  Also if you’re on here do you sell those shirts? 

Given the arena is private property they can simply deny entry or ask the person to leave.  

[cheeseman]

20 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I hear what you're saying. But both May and Ford need to go.  Until we know that's for sure going to happen. I'm not stopping, and the pressure/methods will only increase public embarrassment or otherwise. I didn't advocate jumping to protesting at games or billboards. I've posted on this board which is read by a select few and emailed the Athletic Department. If they get embarrassed go ahead and resign, problem solved.  I'm sure this is nothing compared to the Oklahoma State outcry, there's no dead longhorns in his yard. As for May he's been sucking off the teat of easy street SLU AD long enough with mixed results. Time to go run Bellarmine or Drury. To the big money donors that maybe propping up this regime, they need to know the fans aren't happy. It's no fun sitting in the front row, alone watching the team you dropped big money on lose to SIUE, SIUC or the next directional school. So pull the plug, the department is Terry Schaivo and you're the parents just hoping that 1st half against Drake was the sign of life. It's not. Remember despite having a D-K and E in the name that was Drake a MVC team not Duke. 

The problem with getting rid of both that would need May to go first and perhaps even now or certainly after the first of the year.  We need a new AD in place before the coach is hired.  A new coach would have to be picked by the AD if he is to have any support.  When we hire a new coach it has to be quick and can not linger for weeks like May did with Ford.  I think he did that on purpose so he could say all the others were gone so Ford was the best available.  He will do that again.  In fact if he were to stay he would wait to fire Ford well into the hiring season and put us out of the running for effective candidates.

[TheA_Bomb]

Just now, cheeseman said:

The problem with getting rid of both that would need May to go first and perhaps even now or certainly after the first of the year.  We need a new AD in place before the coach is hired.  A new coach would have to be picked by the AD if he is to have any support.  When we hire a new coach it has to be quick and can not linger for weeks like May did with Ford.  I think he did that on purpose so he could say all the others were gone so Ford was the best available.  He will do that again.  In fact if he were to stay he would wait to fire Ford well into the hiring season and put us out of the running for effective candidates.

Yeah see the initial post. May needs to go now-ish so that the next AD can hire the new coach in March. We can't wait and see until the end of the season who still has a job.

[NextYearBill]

https://www.cowboysrideforfree.com/2014/4/3/5546118/travis-ford-fired

[gobillsgo]

23 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

https://www.cowboysrideforfree.com/2014/4/3/5546118/travis-ford-fired

That’s insane. You could change a couple names and you’d think that was an article from this season.  Every criticism of Ford that we currently have is present in that article, down to the team having one (serviceable) big man. 

[gobillsgo]

39 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Given the arena is private property they can simply deny entry or ask the person to leave.  

Obviously they can. I’m asking if people think they would.  Would be a bad look to drag out/deny entry to passionate fans who are protesting for change for betterment of the program. 

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Obviously they can. I’m asking if people think they would.  Would be a bad look to drag out/deny entry to passionate fans who are protesting for change for betterment of the program. 

No telling what they would do - I do think that they may simply bar all signs to get around the bad PR look

[Soderball]

21 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Obviously they can. I’m asking if people think they would.  Would be a bad look to drag out/deny entry to passionate fans who are protesting for change for betterment of the program. 

I think you'll be allowed to as long as you are not doing something offensive, screaming obscenities, or putting profane stuff on anything you bring in. I'll just be yelling my frustration at Travis. Some "boos" and "fire fords" get the message across. The T shirt is unobtrusive and gets the message across. This is still our team and there are still fans in the building who deserve to cheer for the guys when they want to(this includes me, sometimes a guy like Hargrove puts up such an effort i can't help but get excited over it) ... We also deserve to express our dislike of the direction of the team and the coaching staff and AD. Both are equally true.

[slu92]

Whether you like Chris May or Travis Ford or hate them….MBB does not compete at the level it is funded and the building is never full. That alone should tell everyone regardless of what side of the opinion you agree with, what needs to be done after this season…..both gotta go. Time for a change. Keeping one or both is definition of insanity and if any of the donors love one of them, then they can hire them or help find them new jobs. Win/win. 

[slu92]

14 minutes ago, Soderball said:

I think you'll be allowed to as long as you are not doing something offensive, screaming obscenities, or putting profane stuff on anything you bring in. I'll just be yelling my frustration at Travis. Some "boos" and "fire fords" get the message across. The T shirt is unobtrusive and gets the message across. This is still our team and there are still fans in the building who deserve to cheer for the guys when they want to(this includes me, sometimes a guy like Hargrove puts up such an effort i can't help but get excited over it) ... We also deserve to express our dislike of the direction of the team and the coaching staff and AD. Both are equally true.

I agree, if someone loves AD and coach fine, I disagree, but don’t think they are stupid, have every right to opinion 100%. But just because you criticize these people doesn’t mean you hate the program or them personally, if anything it shows you want it to turnaround for the better. Totally not kids fault, it’s the guy who put them in this position and the guy who put him in his position who deserve all the blame. Millions and millions are spent each year and the ROI isn’t there. It’s not at all after 8 years for Ford and even longer for May counting his hire of Crews. He didn’t hire Majerus. It’s reality and results for these two are their and our reality right now. No way to spin it. You can’t. Need to be held accountable because a new coach is probably going to clean house and start over, the kids will definitely be held accountable after this season. AD and coach should as well. 

[cheeseman]

31 minutes ago, slu92 said:

I agree, if someone loves AD and coach fine, I disagree, but don’t think they are stupid, have every right to opinion 100%. But just because you criticize these people doesn’t mean you hate the program or them personally, if anything it shows you want it to turnaround for the better. Totally not kids fault, it’s the guy who put them in this position and the guy who put him in his position who deserve all the blame. Millions and millions are spent each year and the ROI isn’t there. It’s not at all after 8 years for Ford and even longer for May counting his hire of Crews. He didn’t hire Majerus. It’s reality and results for these two are their and our reality right now. No way to spin it. You can’t. Need to be held accountable because a new coach is probably going to clean house and start over, the kids will definitely be held accountable after this season. AD and coach should as well. 

I am not sure if it was May's idea to hire Crews.  I think it was Biondi who wanted him hired because he would be cheaper than RM.  Now I do blame him for not putting together a power point to change Biondi's mind.  I am sure May was OK with Crews simply because it was easy.

I think you could simply put a bag over your head with eye holes cut out.  

[willie]

21 hours ago, slu72 said:

Yeah we were short handed. But, I think he mismanaged the rotation in the final 20. For some reason he went with the small line up during Drake’s run. Made no sense to me. Both Zhang and Bussel should get the 40 minutes at the 5. Curcic needs more minutes. 

 

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

I am not sure if it was May's idea to hire Crews.  I think it was Biondi who wanted him hired because he would be cheaper than RM.  Now I do blame him for not putting together a power point to change Biondi's mind.  I am sure May was OK with Crews simply because it was easy.

I think you could simply put a bag over your head with eye holes cut out.  

I am not sure where you got the Biondi story. Never heard anything like this. Crews was national coach of the year. How do you not hire him? May had no choice. You don’t essentially fire the national coach of the year. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, willie said:

 

I am not sure where you got the Biondi story. Never heard anything like this. Crews was national coach of the year. How do you not hire him? May had no choice. You don’t essentially fire the national coach of the year. 

He would not have been fired.  His contract was up so it would have been just two sides moving on.  There were plenty of reasons to not hire him and there is no reason to rehash them.   I heard the Biondi thing and that was 11 or so years ago so you can believe it or not.  The NC of the year thing was a tip of the hat to RM in my opinion and coaches who win those awards often get fired a year or two later.  

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, willie said:

 

I am not sure where you got the Biondi story. Never heard anything like this. Crews was national coach of the year. How do you not hire him? May had no choice. You don’t essentially fire the national coach of the year. 

I don't disagree with this and don't fault him for the hire. See Texas last season with Rodney Terry (I fear it will turn out the same way).  Did it have to go as bad as it did? Would another AD have made a difference? Unclear, but I think there's enough other problems to warrant a change. Simply paying over $1.2mil more than the conference average is criminal.  He's making more than the Davidson, Duquesne and Fordham coaches combined!

[willie]

31 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

He would not have been fired.  His contract was up so it would have been just two sides moving on.  There were plenty of reasons to not hire him and there is no reason to rehash them.   I heard the Biondi thing and that was 11 or so years ago so you can believe it or not.  The NC of the year thing was a tip of the hat to RM in my opinion and coaches who win those awards often get fired a year or two later.  

Not rehiring someone is the same as firing. Semantics. Biondi fired Rich Grawer and took a lot of crap for it so No I don’t think he was or wanted to be involved with Crews. And no I don’t believe naming Crews was somehow paying homage to Rick. Rick was well respected but we’re not talking John Wooden here. Someone with better skills then me should go back and see what this board was saying. My memory says the board was saying what’s taking May so long. 

[cheeseman]

17 minutes ago, willie said:

Not rehiring someone is the same as firing. Semantics. Biondi fired Rich Grawer and took a lot of crap for it so No I don’t think he was or wanted to be involved with Crews. And no I don’t believe naming Crews was somehow paying homage to Rick. Rick was well respected but we’re not talking John Wooden here. Someone with better skills then me should go back and see what this board was saying. My memory says the board was saying what’s taking May so long. 

As I said you can believe it or not.  Not sure how much you knew about Biondi but catching crap was never something that really bothered him.  He did plenty that caused him to catch crap.   Yes, there was some posting why it was taking so long to hire Crews but there were others who also cited reasons for not hiring him.  You can say not rehiring is the same as firing but once a contract times out neither party has any expectation for any continuation unless both agree - not semantics but a legal explanation.