Hines

[Box and Won]

The official roster lists him as a junior.

Yesterday's article in the Post-Dispatch, however, included this nugget:

Unable to get into a game last season, Crews said he opted to redshirt Hines.

Seems strange to redshirt a walk on, but whatever.

Also, Avis Meyer would not approve of that sentence.

[TheChosenOne]

So does Hines just have one more season left? What a night for the local kid. You have to love when the hungry walk-on gets his chance and makes the best of it.

[ACE]

Hines is listed on the website as a junior, but it doesn't quite make sense. He played one year at juco, then last year I thought he redshirted, so that would make him a sophomore this season, correct? Great to see the kid play like that, although I'm not sure he can continue to hit some of those circus shots. I probably underestimated him and he certainly looks likes a player worthy of a scholarship.

[Pistol]

You have to apply for a redshirt; it's not just granted if a kid doesn't play all season. His bio doesn't say anything about taking a redshirt last season, just that he didn't play. And he's listed as a junior. He would be a redshirt sophomore if what Crews says is true.

[White Pelican]

You have to apply for a redshirt; it's not just granted if a kid doesn't play all season. His bio doesn't say anything about taking a redshirt last season, just that he didn't play. And he's listed as a junior. He would be a redshirt sophomore if what Crews says is true.

Not intending to start an argument but are sure about having to apply for a redshirt? A college kid has 4 years of eligibility in a 5 year period. My understanding is that if he/she doesn't play in any of those years, that 5th year is available. I can easily find all kinds of articles explaining what a redshirt is, but none that say anything about specifically applying for one.

I remember when Kwamain came back mid-season and didn't play at all. Nothing was said about him having to apply for a redshirt, just that if he played even a minute he'd burn the whole season.

[johnbj14]

I thought if you transferred in the ncaa it isn't called a redshirt, but that you still have the 5 years to do 4. In other words, I believe academically he is a junior but eligibility is a sophomore based simply on transfer policies.

[Pistol]

Maybe not "apply" but there has to be some paperwork - right?

Now I can't find anything on it, either. But it's the freaking NCAA. They don't give players anything for free. Just because Hines never got in a game last season, does that mean he gets an ex post facto redshirt? I never thought that was the case. I thought it had to be submitted by a certain point in the season.

[Box and Won]

Maybe not "apply" but there has to be some paperwork - right?

Now I can't find anything on it, either. But it's the freaking NCAA. They don't give players anything for free. Just because Hines never got in a game last season, does that mean he gets an ex post facto redshirt? I never thought that was the case. I thought it had to be submitted by a certain point in the season.

One would certainly think there has to be some sort of application. Otherwise, how would the NCAA know that Hines didn't play in any games unless the university informed them in some fashion, presumably through a process involving paperwork?

[White Pelican]

One would certainly think there has to be some sort of application. Otherwise, how would the NCAA know that Hines didn't play in any games unless the university informed them in some fashion, presumably through a process involving paperwork?

Well, that's why I'm questioning the use of the word 'apply'. It sounds like a request for a decision. As in, maybe we'll grant it, maybe we won't. I'm assuming there is some kind of paperwork every year that shows who is on the roster. It may be that paperwork always shows how many years he has played and/or how many he has left.

[Pistol]

Well, that's why I'm questioning the use of the word 'apply'. It sounds like a request for a decision. As in, maybe we'll grant it, maybe we won't. I'm assuming there is some kind of paperwork every year that shows who is on the roster. It may be that paperwork always shows how many years he has played and/or how many he has left.

That's a weird semantic hang-up.

I'm 100% certain there is paperwork of some kind. The question is whether after the season SLU can say, "Aaron Hines didn't play one minute last season. We'll take one redshirt, please." I seriously doubt it. There has to be a cut-off date by which you inform the NCAA - and yes, I'd say "apply" because the NCAA has the right to disallow a redshirt request, because they've done it before.

So there's something screwy about Crews' statement - either he thinks Hines redshirted and is wrong, or he's making it sound like they casually decided to redshirt him after he didn't get into any games. I don't see how either of those can be correct; it's probably the latter, and that statement probably would make perfect sense if he replaced the words "last season" with "in November" or something like that.

EDIT: Completion forms after the fact are apparently accepted; the paperwork (participation roster) is submitted to the NCAA for approval.

[JMM28]

I believe the only redshirt you have to apply for is a medical one. The first is usually pretty no-nonsense. If you go for a 2nd medical, there is more of a review.

If you didn't play in any games, technically you don't use any eligibility. I'd assume he is really a redshirt sophomore with 2 years left after this.

[hsmith19]

You don't have to do anything other than not play for a full season. If you don't play, you haven't used up a year of your eligibility. The only time you have to apply for anything is for a medical hardship, which is technically not a "redshirt" at all:

http://www.jsutigers...DB_OEM_ID=29000

[White Pelican]

Like I said, I don't want to start an argument. I had too much fun at the unexpected win last night. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Pistol]

You don't have to do anything other than not play for a full season. If you don't play, you haven't used up a year of your eligibility. The only time you have to apply for anything is for a medical hardship, which is technically not a "redshirt" at all:

http://www.jsutigers...DB_OEM_ID=29000

So there isn't an application, but a "completion form" -

"There is no official form to complete regarding a redshirt student-athlete. A student-athlete’s participation in competition should be recorded on the competition forms (e.g., participation rosters)."

So it looks like you really can get one after the fact, and that Hines should be listed as a sophomore.

That said, this still is paperwork that has to be submitted to the NCAA for approval.

[hsmith19]

I'm not sure what "competition forms" or "participation rosters" are, exactly, but I take that to mean they are compliance forms you have to file for all athletes who compete. There's nothing special you have to file to preserve Hines' eligibility; you just have to record whether he competes or not (and he didn't last year).

[brianstl]

It doesn't look like a student or school actually has to do anything.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/bc/genrel/auto_pdf/waivers.pdf

The absence of a definition notwithstanding, a student-athlete redshirts when they do not participate in any intercollegiate competition during a given academic year. The main reason for purposely redshirting a student-athlete is to preserve a year of their eligibility. The moment a student-athlete competes for a single second of time or a single play, they will use up one of their four years of eligibility. “Intercollegiate competition” includes any contests against outside competition, regardless of how the competition is classified (e.g., scrimmages, exhibitions, etc.). (NCAA Bylaw 14.02.6)

[Box and Won]

Interesting. And surprisingly casual on the part of the NCAA.

It will also be interested to see if Hines' scholarship is extended beyond this year. If he winds up being a contributor, it might be nice to have him around for an extra season. If he's not on scholarship, he could very easily just choose to graduate and not incur any more debt.

[Cowboy]

That's a weird semantic hang-up.

I'm 100% certain there is paperwork of some kind. The question is whether after the season SLU can say, "Aaron Hines didn't play one minute last season. We'll take one redshirt, please." I seriously doubt it. There has to be a cut-off date by which you inform the NCAA - and yes, I'd say "apply" because the NCAA has the right to disallow a redshirt request, because they've done it before.

So there's something screwy about Crews' statement - either he thinks Hines redshirted and is wrong, or he's making it sound like they casually decided to redshirt him after he didn't get into any games. I don't see how either of those can be correct; it's probably the latter, and that statement probably would make perfect sense if he replaced the words "last season" with "in November" or something like that.

EDIT: Completion forms after the fact are apparently accepted; the paperwork (participation roster) is submitted to the NCAA for approval.

-this redshirt business is all crazy talk, SLU is on top of it, the same folks that had a Tatum visit scheduled for a dead recruiting period

[brianstl]

So there isn't an application, but a "completion form" -

"There is no official form to complete regarding a redshirt student-athlete. A student-athlete’s participation in competition should be recorded on the competition forms (e.g., participation rosters)."

So it looks like you really can get one after the fact, and that Hines should be listed as a sophomore.

That said, this still is paperwork that has to be submitted to the NCAA for approval.

I assume those forms are the official score book from the game that automatically gets sent to the NCAA after every game.

[billikenfan05]

I'm not sure what "competition forms" or "participation rosters" are, exactly, but I take that to mean they are compliance forms you have to file for all athletes who compete. There's nothing special you have to file to preserve Hines' eligibility; you just have to record whether he competes or not (and he didn't last year).

Participation? Sounds foo foo to me

[Billiken Law]

So there isn't an application, but a "completion form" -

"There is no official form to complete regarding a redshirt student-athlete. A student-athlete’s participation in competition should be recorded on the competition forms (e.g., participation rosters)."

So it looks like you really can get one after the fact, and that Hines should be listed as a sophomore.

That said, this still is paperwork that has to be submitted to the NCAA for approval.

if you don't play in a game, whether you're injured or healthy, you do not use a year of eligibility and there is no "application" to gain back a year of eligibility. One can travel and practice every day and still not use a year of eligibility if they don't play in a competition. If you are seeking a medical hardship (played in a game within the NCAA's time limits and suffered a documented season ending injury) the conference is the body that approves a medical hardship. The only time a school goes to the NCAA to get a year back is 1) if the conference denies the medical hardship waiver or 2) to get a sixth year of eligibility (extension of the eligibility clock).

As for how eligibility is listed, that is up to the school. Some will list based on academic standing, others on eligibility.

[Pistol]

Interesting. And surprisingly casual on the part of the NCAA.

This is my main takeaway from this discussion. The organization that will boot someone for accepting a $5 meal basically says, "We'll take your word for it!" for an entire season of eligibility, and after the fact.

[hsmith19]

I agree the lack of an official definition seems casual, but it doesn't strike me as a matter of taking you at your word. How exactly would you be able to use Aaron Hines in an official game and not have anybody realize it? Have him wear Miles Reynolds' jersey? Pay off the official scorer, espn.com, and everybody else to falsify the box scores broadcast to the public?

[Pistol]

It was a joke, a slight exaggeration.

It's the NCAA equivalent of taking you at your word. It's really unusual.

[HoosierPal]

All game logs are sent into the NCAA. So it wouldn't take too much effort for the NCAA to insure that our potential NBA superstar in fact only took up bench space last year.