Pistol Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 In your post above in this thread, you draw attention to yourself as having concerns at the time about recruiting specifically. I don't see that. What would I have done in April 2013? I don't know; not hire Crews, probably. This argument is so dull. We're wasting everyone's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Clearly Crews is not developing the players as there seems to be little individual improvement, but the primary problem is a lack of talent. It is a poorly constructed team. It all goes back to recruiting. I had my concerns at the time... Crews did a poor job of capitalizing on the team's previous success. We should have been recruiting at a higher level. He recruited a bunch of role players - some could have been decent contributors IF surrounded by players like KM, JJ, CE, DE - the problem is there are no players of that caliber on this roster. From the moment Carter left the program, Crews should have made getting a PG or even two THE top priority - that's what RM would have done. Also, the idea of getting some taller 2/3 type players made some sense, but the problem is these guys aren't quick. RM valued quickness over size - it was a pretty good recipe for success. huh???? http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25702&hl=%20recruiting%20%202014&page=3 Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:15 AM On the Illinois State board they were speculating why MY didn't get around to taking an official visit there - MY's dad was a good player there back in the day. Some speculation/excuses like maybe he didn't want to compete for playing time (at Ill State???) or he didn't want to play in his dad's shadow. Finally, a guy chimed in with an answer which I used to give on this board when we would miss recruits - "Maybe he wants to play for a program that has been to the NCAA Tournament within the last 15 years." It's nice that we are now a program that has that to sell. It seems like the staff has done a good job capitalizing on our recent success. Recruits commit very quickly after visiting. DR, AB, MR and now MY all recent examples. The recruiting process is not dragging on like it used to and we are not regarded as a back-up option for recruits. DR commits to us early rather than continuing to explore SEC options. MB commits shortly after his visit and cancels his planned visit to Creighton (where his parents attended), MR commits after his visit to LSU. MY commits after an offer from UNLV. In the past, it would seeme we were almost always on the losing end of those recruiting situations. Great job by JC and staff. I don't think we're going to be complaining about not having big guards and wings for a long time. We'll find new things to complain about. http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24423&hl=%20davell%20%20roby%20%20commits&page=4 I was hoping we would have one 2014 commit by the end of the summer, but maybe we wind up getting one or two more. This seemed to come together very quickly. Big athletic guard with multiple quality BCS offers... sounds good. From what I have researched on Roby, it sounds like he projects more as a 2, even though he is sometimes listed as a 1. I expect that we will land a good point guard in the Class of 2014 to pair up with Roby. I like the idea of having good guard pairings every two years - McBroom and Ash and nowRoby and yet to be named point guard. That's why I didn't think the likes of Randy or Saintil were big priorities for 2013. We will get better quality guards in 2014 and Roby appears to be a great first start. Nice job by Crews and staff. http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24582&hl=+marcus%20+commit&page=2 This is great news. I liked the video and the list of schools. When I first heard about him and he had an offer from Okie State, plus his parents went to Creighton, I figured it was an uphill battle. Great to win this recruiting battle. The next collection of guards is taking shape. Roby, Bartley and Yacoubou... for those who have been clamoring for big guards, you got it. And if you like the quick little guys in the mold of KM and MM, we will still have McBroom. I wonder if the bigger guards is a shift in philosophy or if it has just worked out that way? I was never really that hung up on the size of guards as I saw MM and KM run circles around plenty of bigger guards. I can dig through the 2014 recruiting thread if you'd like. You left glowing remarks on all the recruits and praised Crews recruiting skills at every opportunity. You made numerous mentions that our backcourt would be like Temple's. Not saying you were different than anyone else, I also did. Anyone can see it, just do a search. The revisionist history is old. No one else on the board does it. Why do you have to portray yourself as the smartest guy in the room when you are clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 huh???? http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25702&hl=%20recruiting%20%202014&page=3 http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24423&hl=%20davell%20%20roby%20%20commits&page=4 http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24582&hl=+marcus%20+commit&page=2 I can dig through the 2014 recruiting thread if you'd like. You left glowing remarks on all the recruits and praised Crews recruiting skills at every opportunity. You made numerous mentions that our backcourt would be like Temple's. Not saying you were different than anyone else, I also did. Anyone can see it, just do a search. The revisionist history is old. No one else on the board does it. Why do you have to portray yourself as the smartest guy in the room when you are clearly not. I hardly said I was right about everything. I clearly was wrong that we would have more big wings like Temple, although that clearly appeared to be what JC was trying to build. I thought we would be better at the 2/3 - we're not even good there. And to say I "praised Crews recruiting skills at every opportunity" is a gross mischaracterization. My analysis of his recruiting was a mixed bag. I certainly had my reservations about AG and BJ, plus the lack of a point guard. I correctly pointed out that DR was NOT a pg as some had envisioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Selective memory is a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Sounds to me like you praised the recruits and the job done by our staff. I did that too for most our recruits. I questioned the positions we brought in a little bit, but I honestly thought they would be pretty good. I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I hardly said I was right about everything. I clearly was wrong that we would have more big wings like Temple, although that clearly appeared to be what JC was trying to build. I thought we would be better at the 2/3 - we're not even good there. And to say I "praised Crews recruiting skills at every opportunity" is a gross mischaracterization. My analysis of his recruiting was a mixed bag. I certainly had my reservations about AG and BJ, plus the lack of a point guard. I correctly pointed out that DR was NOT a pg as some had envisioned. I held out long enough. I put MB on ignore last week. Now it is your turn. Much easier than dredging up old posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Interesting stuff here... http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23771&hl=crews&page=1 Honestly, I remember most on the board being pretty tentative about the hire. Roy, to his credit, was adamant that Crews was the wrong guy, but I think many of us felt similarly, or at least, had our doubts (except Next Year Bill). Post below is from Roy and my response to him, which would suggest many were in the same camp as him. Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:33 PM billiken_roy, on 01 Mar 2013 - 2:15 PM, said: +0.5 It's very interesting that outside perception is to give him the job, no questions asked, while many on this board (whom I consider to be the voice of the die-hard base) are generally opposed to it, or at least have significant reservations. Ahh, memories. I cringe looking back at some of these. While I could say I was right in stating that the job was Crews' no matter what, seeing me practically endorse him pains me now. Also, I love how near the end of the thread, ACE says Tanner Bronson could potentially be SLU's Brad Stevens. (I'm sure we all have dozens of posts we'd like to not be dug up.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 99% of this board was drunk off koolaid 2 or 3 years ago. Recruiting is great, we're definitely going to be in the BE, we're definitely going to win 20+ games every year, etc. No one in 2013 could have predicted that it would be such a disaster now. I definitely would have given the job to Crews, given what we knew then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 99% of this board was drunk off koolaid 2 or 3 years ago. Recruiting is great, we're definitely going to be in the BE, we're definitely going to win 20+ games every year, etc. No one in 2013 could have predicted that it would be such a disaster now. I definitely would have given the job to Crews, given what we knew then. Since Jett, Evans, McCall, and Loe stepped off the court - everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. I feel bad for those guys along with Conklin, Cassity, etc. who helped build a foundation for the program and reached unprecedented heights. All it took were a bunch of no talent ass clowns and Jim Crews to completely destroy it in under 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I held out long enough. I put MB on ignore last week. Now it is your turn. Much easier than dredging up old posts. Well, you've already lied once by saying you had me on ignore previously... which was clearly false. Probably best for you for you to stay out of debates. Usually doesn't go well for you. I almost felt sorry for you over the debacle that was your Larry Hughes thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Sounds to me like you praised the recruits and the job done by our staff. I did that too for most our recruits. I questioned the positions we brought in a little bit, but I honestly thought they would be pretty good. I was wrong. I was encouraged that we seemed to lock up some of our main targets quickly and it did appear we were getting bigger and more athletic at the 2/3 (something people complained about even when we had good teams). Problem is our primary targets were not good. I did question the lack of a true point guard and the bigs we were recruiting. Yes, the results of the recruiting has been far worse than myself or anybody else on the board imagined. I think it was at least fair to actually "see the kids" play for SLU before drawing conclusions. Well it is pretty obvious now what we are stuck with. Certainly not the first time I have been wrong. I really thought Sodie was the answer after signing Lisch and Liddell and that more recruiting success was likely to follow... boy was I wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 In your post above in this thread, you draw attention to yourself as having concerns at the time about recruiting specifically. I don't see that. What would I have done in April 2013? I don't know; not hire Crews, probably. This argument is so dull. We're wasting everyone's time. Well, you were the one attempting to make an issue out of my rather simple, consistent stance - Crews was fine for interim, not the right choice as permanent head coach. Probably best you bow out after your attempts at "gotch ya" moment failed. Plenty of other quotes from 2013 to back it up. Here is "another instance" where I was looking for a HC other than JC from late Jan. 2013, although my "when we get in the Big East" comment regrettably never materialized - http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23442 Somebody has mentioned that Jamal Walker was recruiting for Illinois at a local game. Jamal is currently the 3rd assistant at Illinois. After we get in the Big East and get our new coach, Walker might be a good hire as our top assistant and hire Justin Tatum as our 3rd assistant or DOB. For another one of our assistants, get a guy with strong East Coast connections - that will help when we are in the Big East. Get the best x's and o's head coach Dr. Chaifetz can buy and we are set up to win a national championship. Easy stuff. And regarding who you would have hired in April 2013... a bit surprised you are now saying anybody but JC, because at the time you were on record saying JC was your choice as 2013 A-10 Coach of the Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I was encouraged that we seemed to lock up some of our main targets quickly and it did appear we were getting bigger and more athletic at the 2/3 (something people complained about even when we had good teams). Problem is our primary targets were not good. I did question the lack of a true point guard and the bigs we were recruiting. Yes, the results of the recruiting has been far worse than myself or anybody else on the board imagined. I think it was at least fair to actually "see the kids" play for SLU before drawing conclusions. Well it is pretty obvious now what we are stuck with. Certainly not the first time I have been wrong. I really thought Sodie was the answer after signing Lisch and Liddell and that more recruiting success was likely to follow... boy was I wrong. The problem was we lost out on all our primary targets. Guys like Patterson, Martin, Austin Jr., Omara, Martin and Macura all went elsewhere. Our top targets were actually good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 As I recall, the general consensus when Crews was named HC was, because being awarded the national COY, that the school was in between a rock and a hard place. We would be chastised or mocked by the national and local media if we didn't give him the job. Also, since we had a good team returning was it worth the risk of bringing in a new guy, since the team did play well under him. We all thought he had little to do with that, since they were Rick's boys. I don't recall anyone being a 100% behind him as the man to take us forward, instead, most felt the ridicule and the. risk of missing the dance in 13-14 was worth his promotion. Now we are paying the price, so it's time to make the nightmare end. He needs to go and today is already too late., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Sad how a group of posters revel in the fact that they blurted out they did not want Crews and now the team is doing poorly. Some like that we keep losing, it makes them feel smart in their little 24/7 billikens.com world. And everyone piles on Jolly, he is a safe PC target, whereas there are several others, more talented, who have underachieved more significantly. Just one facet: 4 for 31 first half last night, a few that we made were layups, I saw the first half they had a lot of open shots. Is Crews a poor shooting coach? Tell me. Is Chaeney a poor shooting coach? 4-31? The talent is there, though we sorely lack BIGS. A few of our sophs were offered schollies to big schools I believe, like Yarbough (Iowa, Illinois), and the 9 sophs and freshmen we have are all 3* and 2* (except for our Canadian). Our talent is much better than the one-obsessed-poster's-famous-'83-team. Our three young 5's are not strong enough to compete with maulers like Moe Alie Cox.. could he get in SLU? Could he make it one semester? Three of our core high potential sophs sat the whole second half, so it is apparent Crews is not effective in managing and / or they are not dealing with his leadership. That problem's responsibility defaults to the coach. Sure, if things do not change soon, we should look at the head coach as being responsible, and depending on the truth of what is going on here, move to another head coach next year. However, a lot of the proposed coaches on other threads will not have any real big time positive impact, and a few that were mentioned would not come here, no way. And I doubt our new President is one to be aggressive in our search. There is my update... again, sure, there are big problems, but to say our coach sucks, that he has mental issues (etcetera), and to pretty much single out Jolly in a hurtful personal manner all the time is pathetic. Stop it. I hope somehow they gel, they are still very young, they are not looking good, but I hope they become competitive, now. Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 The problem was we lost out on all our primary targets. Guys like Patterson, Martin, Austin Jr., Omara, Martin and Macura all went elsewhere. Our top targets were actually good. Good point. I didn't mean to suggest we got all of our top targets. Martin and Patterson would have been very good, but we did land a lot of guys early in the process who were clearly very high on our list - Gillman, Roby & Bartley committed several months prior to the Nov. signing period and I believe Reynolds was about a month earlier - we generally were not scrambling late in the spring to fill roster spots. Our list wasn't good enough. With the benefit of hindsight, the staff probably would have been better served to keep back a couple of those spots and try to land better quality in the spring (although that is a difficult strategy usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Sad how a group of posters revel in the fact that they blurted out they did not want Crews and now the team is doing poorly. Some like that we keep losing, it makes them feel smart in their little 24/7 billikens.com world. And everyone piles on Jolly, he is a safe PC target, whereas there are several others, more talented, who have underachieved more significantly. Just one facet: 4 for 31 first half last night, a few that we made were layups, I saw the first half they had a lot of open shots. Is Crews a poor shooting coach? Tell me. Is Chaeney a poor shooting coach? 4-31? The talent is there, though we sorely lack BIGS. A few of our sophs were offered schollies to big schools I believe, like Yarbough (Iowa, Illinois), and the 9 sophs and freshmen we have are all 3* and 2* (except for our Canadian). Our talent is much better than the one-obsessed-poster's-famous-'83-team. Our three young 5's are not strong enough to compete with maulers like Moe Alie Cox.. could he get in SLU? Could he make it one semester? Three of our core high potential sophs sat the whole second half, so it is apparent Crews is not effective in managing and / or they are not dealing with his leadership. That problem responsibility defaults to the coach. Sure, if this does not change, we should look at the head coach as being responsible, and depending on the truth of what is going on here, move to another head coach next year. Though a lot of the proposed coaches on other threads will not have any real positive impact, and a lot that were mentioned would not come here, no way. And I doubt our new President is one to be aggressive in our search. There is my update... again, sure, there is problems, but to say our coach sucks, that he has mental issues (etcetera), and to pretty much single out Jolly is pathetic. Stop it. I hope somehow they gel, they are still very young, they are not looking good, but I hope they become competitive, now. Do you? Are you seriously suggesting Jolly gets targeted around here because of his race? And you think we're the ones in our own little world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 For the record, I was the first one on the #hireskip bandwagon. See post #107. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Box. http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23771&p=348777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Are you seriously suggesting Jolly gets targeted around here because of his race? And you think we're the ones in our own little world? The ignorant attacks made on Jolly, the language, have not, can not, be used regarding an AA player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Are you seriously suggesting Jolly gets targeted around here because of his race? And you think we're the ones in our own little world? The ignorant attacks made on Jolly, the language, have not, can not, be used regarding an AA player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Are you seriously suggesting Jolly gets targeted around here because of his race? And you think we're the ones in our own little world? Maybe PC means "pretty crappy"? That would be a safe PC target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Wait a minute...the guy who says it's mean and "hurtful" to make fun of shots like this is accusing others of being politically correct? Truly bizarro world, through the looking glass logic at work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 The ignorant attacks made on Jolly, the language, have not, can not, be used regarding an AA player. Are you Jollys dad? Uncle? Lover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 The ignorant attacks made on Jolly, the language, have not, can not, be used regarding an AA player. Could you give an example of something said about Jolly that can't/hasn't ever been said about a black player on this board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 The ignorant attacks made on Jolly, the language, have not, can not, be used regarding an AA player. I agree. I don't think anyone on this board would lob ignorant attacks at a player in Alcoholics Anonymous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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