kmbilliken Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This team is the legacy of 3 bad years of recruiting in a row. There is no doubt the last one was the result of RM's illness. Maybe the other two were as well. He started out with 3 good years of recruiting the last of those being the 2010 freshmen class. He had some misses with players but he brought in good players each year. Beginning with 2011 recruiting fell off the cliff. The end result of that is this: 2011- Manning & Glaze. Two marginal role players. 2012- McBroom. A decent role player at worst. A capable 3rd or 4th player in a guard rotation at best. 2013 Yacoubo, Lancona, Agbeko and Crawford. Yacoubo should be a capable guard in the guard rotation. The other three would ride the pines on any decent team. The reason Crews relied so heavily on his five seniors last year and didn't play these guys was they weren't good enough. They are showing that this year. End result is out of 3 years of recruiting we end up with two marginal role players, two players for the back end of a guard rotation and three bench warmers. Not a star or top flight player in the bunch. Thankfully, Crews has brought 6 guys with potential to give us hope for improvement, but this is going to be a three year rebuilding project. Next years recruits sound like they have potential too. He needs to follow up with another good year and we should be good when the freshmen are juniors. My only question is what do you do with the sophomores? Can we afford to carry 3 non-contributors from the same class for 4 years? At the level we recruit there are going to be misses, but we can't afford 3 out of 4 the same year. We need those spots to try to find needed contributors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Last two classes Crews had something good to sell and was unable to sell it to anyone that could come in and make an impact from the start. He had multiple NCAA tourney bids and immediate playing time to sell and he couldn't find a point guard to run the offense right away or a consistent outside shooter that could step in right away. That is on Jim Crews. This isn't just a bad Billiken team right now. This team is in a battle with 91-92 as the worst team in 30 years. There is no excuse for that. Not coming off advancing 3 straight years in the tournament, not with the facilities we now have, and not with the budget the program operates with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Brian. I'm calling you out now. To throw the freshman class under the bus because they aren't able to contribute right now is ridiculous. The class of Yacoubo, Lancona, Agbeko and Crawford is not where it needs to be but also too early to be written off. Maybe if Rick had retired instead of died suddenly and the transition wasn't so f'ed up and the freshman and sophmores were truely awfull, you'd have more of point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Brian. I'm calling you out now. To throw the freshman class under the bus because they aren't able to contribute right now is ridiculous. The class of Yacoubo, Lancona, Agbeko and Crawford is not where it needs to be but also too early to be written off. Maybe if Rick had retired instead of died suddenly and the transition wasn't so f'ed up and the freshman and sophmores were truely awfull, you'd have more of point. I am not throwing the freshman class under the bus. I am throwing the fact that Crews put a class together that only consisted of freshman under the bus. If there was ever a season to add a couple juco players this was the one. Not landing any is on Jim Crews. He didn't get the players he needed to be competive this year. I am not asking for good, just competive. This is an awful basketball team. That is on Jim Crews. I think the freshman class is going to turn out ok. Not as good as 10-11 or 09-10, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This FR class looks very decent. Size, length, athletic. Grooming and growing is what they need. The upperclassmen right now adding very little. Can't really blame JC for SO class, since he was still the interim coach for most of that year. They are going to have the program forward. Here's hoping they last all 4 years as a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I am not throwing the freshman class under the bus. I am throwing the fact that Crews put a class together that only consisted of freshman under the bus. If there was ever a season to add a couple juco players this was the one. Not landing any is on Jim Crews. He didn't get the players he needed to be competive this year. I am not asking for good, just competive. This is an awful basketball team. That is on Jim Crews. I think the freshman class is going to turn out ok. Not as good as 10-11 or 09-10, but ok. I'd rather build from scratch as our luck with jucos has never been great. Even with jucos or transfers this year was going to suck. Look at Ash: they always seem to come in rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'd rather build from scratch as our luck with jucos has never been great. Even with jucos or transfers this year was going to suck. Look at Ash: they always seem to come in rusty. There is a difference between sucking and being truly awful. This team is truly awful. The last time we had a team this bad they were thinking about dropping the program to division 3. That is how bad this team is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This group of freshmen can absolutely lead us to multiple tournament appearances (although we may not reach the level of success of the last graduating class). I can't fault Crews much for the sophomore class, but we've landed plenty of solid late signing period recruits before. I guess I kind of question the idea of bringing in 6 freshmen. A JUCO could've helped more this year and evened out the classes. Even a transfer that wouldn't have been eligible this year could've even out the classes. I just don't know if graduating 5 or 6 major contributors every four years is a recipe for long term success. Chances are someone out of this class transfers out in search of more playing time, but unless you're Kentucky, Duke, etc, I'm not sure you want to be above 4 guys in any given class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Backhand has been out front saying "we suck" since starting 2-0 and a grade A- from the Wiz. We suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Everyone craps on Keith Carter, but I wouldn't mind having a seasoned PG right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 There is a difference between sucking and being truly awful. This team is truly awful. The last time we had a team this bad they were thinking about dropping the program to division 3. That is how bad this team is. I don't even think I can argue with you anymore because we lack a common frame of reference........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shempie Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Everyone craps on Keith Carter, but I wouldn't mind having a seasoned PG right now. This in hindsight was a huge miss. He would be the man right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This group of freshmen can absolutely lead us to multiple tournament appearances (although we may not reach the level of success of the last graduating class). I can't fault Crews much for the sophomore class, but we've landed plenty of solid late signing period recruits before. I guess I kind of question the idea of bringing in 6 freshmen. A JUCO could've helped more this year and evened out the classes. Even a transfer that wouldn't have been eligible this year could've even out the classes. I just don't know if graduating 5 or 6 major contributors every four years is a recipe for long term success. Chances are someone out of this class transfers out in search of more playing time, but unless you're Kentucky, Duke, etc, I'm not sure you want to be above 4 guys in any given class. We tried to get Jucos. Now people are just making up. No it's not ideal to have 6 man recruiting classes, but what did you want him to do? A transfer would have saved everything! Just like Ash has dominated this year. Wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We tried to get Jucos. Now people are just making ###### up. No ###### it's not ideal to have 6 man recruiting classes, but what did you want him to do? A transfer would have saved everything! Just like Ash has dominated this year. Wait.... Alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This in hindsight was a huge miss. He would be the man right now. He would be the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlhoops Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This team can't be judge on how we are playing now. Yes, we suck right now. I'm confident as the year goes on we will improve. The problem is not Jim Crews coaching ability to me. It's his ability to recruit. He has coached and recruited for 30 years. The record speaks for itself. I'm not confident he can't get high quality 3 star and occasional 4 star kids in here to build the program. Why would anyone think he could? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This team can't be judge on how we are playing now. Yes, we suck right now. I'm confident as the year goes on we will improve. The problem is not Jim Crews coaching ability to me. It's his ability to recruit. He has coached and recruited for 30 years. The record speaks for itself. I'm not confident he can't get high quality 3 star and occasional 4 star kids in here to build the program. Why would anyone think he could? Like Matt Neufeld? Or Malik? Or Jolly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Everyone craps on Keith Carter, but I wouldn't mind having a seasoned PG right now. Agreed. This season is where the loss of Keith Carter is evident. He was a pretty high level recruit coming from a traditional Illinois high school power in Proviso East in the Chicago suburbs. Had Carter stayed at SLU, he would be a Senior this season. The recruiting issues in the Junior and Sophomore classes, especially the Junior class, can be traced directly to the illness of Coach Majerus. Let's not throw Coach Crews under the bus, please. He did an admirable job in maintaining the program after the loss of Coach Majerus, going 55-14, with 2 NCAA Tournament appearances. The current freshmen are going to be ok. They are going to get better. A point guard will be developed, and if not one can be recruited for next season. But I think both Bartley and Miles Reynolds will eventually stabilize as the primary point guards. Both have already shown moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We tried to get Jucos. Now people are just making ###### up. No ###### it's not ideal to have 6 man recruiting classes, but what did you want him to do? A transfer would have saved everything! Just like Ash has dominated this year. Wait.... Nobody his saying we didn't try to recruit Jucos. It was his job to land some that could contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlhoops Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Like Matt Neufeld? Or Malik? Or Jolly? I don't know much about Neufeld. Malik seems to be trending up and Jolly has flashes. I think most agree that Malik seems to have the most upside (maybe even more than Ash) but no one knows if this group will work out. I'm not bashing Crews (not yet anyway) but I'm certainly questioning his ability to recruit at SLU and the previous coaching jobs he has had. I think that's more than fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Agreed. This season is where the loss of Keith Carter is evident. He was a pretty high level recruit coming from a traditional Illinois high school power in Proviso East in the Chicago suburbs. Had Carter stayed at SLU, he would be a Senior this season. The recruiting issues in the Junior and Sophomore classes, especially the Junior class, can be traced directly to the illness of Coach Majerus. Let's not throw Coach Crews under the bus, please. He did an admirable job in maintaining the program after the loss of Coach Majerus, going 55-14, with 2 NCAA Tournament appearances. The current freshmen are going to be ok. They are going to get better. A point guard will be developed, and if not one can be recruited for next season. But I think both Bartley and Miles Reynolds will eventually stabilize as the primary point guards. Both have already shown moments. Carter would still only be a junior if he had stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Carter would still only be a junior if he had stayed. Right, since he was a mid-year transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 If Carter had stayed, which current player wouldn't we have now? Milik was the last one to commit. There are a plethora of reasons why we aren't playing well. I'm not willing to throw in the towel quite yet on our Sophomores, but they sure are frustrating to watch. I think the most frustrating aspect of the way we are playing is that our 'leaders' Manning, Yacoubou, and McBroom completely disappear for games. They need to be the ones who hit a drought-ending three or a run sparking drive. As many of us said at the outset of the season, we are looking for IMPROVEMENT as the season progresses. Well, I sure haven't seen much. In fact, it's been the opposite. We are only about a third done so there's still time, but some of this sloppiness should fall on Crews. As should not having a better option at PG. But let's not go overboard...it's still early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Carter would still only be a junior if he had stayed. I'm sorry, you are right. Keith Carter would be a Junior at SLU now had he stayed. Carter was runner-up for Illinois Mr. Basketball and 1st Team All-State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgbilliken Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I asked a friend whom I've forced to watch all the games with me what he thought of everyone on the boards being so low on our team and on our coach. If anyone is interested in a big college basketball fan--but not a bills fan--thinks of where our team is right now: "I get it. I mean SLU was good the last couple of years and people got used to that level of play. But those classes are gone and you are left with a bunch of players that came in during a coaching transition or are the first class that is Crews alone When freshmen who aren't McD AA type talent or 1-2 and done types are getting 60% of the minutes there is going to be a lot of growing pains BUT on the flip side they are getting the chance to play high level basketball in actual games together and they will for 3.5 more years. It is a trial by fire and I would bet a decent amount of money that by the spring of 2016 nobody is going to want to play them and by spring of 2017 they are going to be a force Add in to that, they seem to be in the mix for some decent mid level talent next year and I would guess that will be the norm now. So you are constantly restocking with a few new talented guys. That will play with the now freshmen as they get better. Crews really took over a rebuilding situation but it was delayed. They missed out on a couple of years of recruiting and its just showing now, but this was a good year for them and it sounds like next year will be too. Yeah it sucks going from going to the NCAA 3 years in a row and being a top 10 top 25 team pretty consistently but they are in a position to build a consistently strong program." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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