TheBand Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Bass Pro Shops to Add a Memphis Pyramid to Its Business Empire By RICHARD FAUSSET DEC. 3, 2014 Continue reading the main storySlide Show SLIDE SHOW|6 Photos Future of Memphis Landmark Is a Riddle No More Future of Memphis Landmark Is a Riddle No MoreCreditBrandon Dill for The New York Times Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main storyShare This PageContinue reading the main story MEMPHIS — For years, Memphis has been haunted by its Riddle of the Pyramid: What do you do with an empty 32-story glass-and-steel monument that was supposed to be this city’s answer to the Eiffel Tower or the Gateway Arch? That riddle has now been solved: The Pyramid, once a troubled arena for basketball and concerts, will be reborn as a hunting and fishing superstore hawking duck calls and tackle boxes. The much-maligned building, which once served as the home of the Memphis Grizzlies of the N.B.A. and the University of Memphis basketball program, is scheduled to officially reopen in late April or early May as an outpost of the Bass Pro Shops empire, the self-described “retail mecca for sportsmen,” whose massive hunting and fishing stores are fixtures on many a heartland feeder road. After months of shifting plans, officials from the Missouri-based Bass Pro Shops recently offered a peek at the ambitious, if thematically incongruent, features they are building inside the site. As for the new theme, think Disneyland in a duck blind. The 535,000 square feet of interior space at the Bass Pro Shops at the Pyramid — as the site will be called — will feature shooting and archery ranges, a bowling alley built to seem as though it is underwater, a 100-room hotel with lodging designed to look like cabins in a cypress swamp, and an observation deck patterned after the Grand Canyon skywalk. There will be aquariums stocked with 1,800 fish, a conservation-themed “waterfowling heritage center” and pools slithering with live alligators. More Here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/us/bass-pro-shops-to-add-a-memphis-pyramid-to-its-business-empire.html?_r=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Stadiums and arenas are such terrific boosts for the local economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Ugh. Such a cool building. Didn't work as a sports arena or gallery space, so let's make it a monument to redneckism. Reminds me a little of having to settle for the Bull Riding bar as the anchor of Ballpark Village instead of BB King's. Semi-related: What is up with Mud Island these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 This place cost around 120 million in current dollars when built in 1991 and a short 14 years later they could not give the thing away. Bass got over another 30 million dollars from the city in further improvements just to reopen as a (probably cool) store. destination. Charlotte Coliseum was closed less than 20 years after it was built (demolished 2 years later) and had no major tenants for its last 8 years (just WNBA abd Arena Football). The Silverdome got 0.2% of its original costs 30 years after it was built (with many millions of improvements over the years not factored in) and now it is essentially being used as scrap. It sold at less than average home in my town. Yet the obvious rapid depreciation of stadiums and arenas as assets is never part of the discussion of whether to build them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 This place cost around 120 million in current dollars when built in 1991 and a short 14 years later they could not give the thing away. Bass got over another 30 million dollars from the city in further improvements just to reopen as a (probably cool) store. destination. Charlotte Coliseum was closed less than 20 years after it was built (demolished 2 years later) and had no major tenants for its last 8 years (just WNBA abd Arena Football). The Silverdome got 0.2% of its original costs 30 years after it was built (with many millions of improvements over the years not factored in) and now it is essentially being used as scrap. It sold at less than average home in my town. Yet the obvious rapid depreciation of stadiums and arenas as assets is never part of the discussion of whether to build them. I haven't been there in a couple years, but you got to at least give props to how Scottrade has appeared to hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Here in Atlanta we going to demo Turner Field and the Georgia Dome. Absolutely nothing wrong with either facility. To finance these new sports palaces they going to increase the hotel tax. Not a bright move if it scares away business from Atlanta's lucrative convention business. BTW, I have not met one person from Atlanta that think this is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I haven't been there in a couple years, but you got to at least give props to how Scottrade has appeared to hold up. I am not saying that the depreciation is real. I am sure the Scott Kielvis is perfectly fine and will be for manyyears. The rapid depreciation is a direct result of extortion from parties seeking revenue streams on the backs of others (See "Field of Schemes" by Neil DeMause or his website). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Stadiums and arenas are such terrific boosts for the local economy. I like this quote from the mayor: "Quite frankly, what revenue-producing, tax-producing activities would be well suited to be located in a pyramid?" Wharton said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I haven't been there in a couple years, but you got to at least give props to how Scottrade has appeared to hold up. Look at Madison Square Garden, it was built in 1968. Now the old Boston Garden did need to be replaced with the TD Garden. I believe no public $ went into construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I don't think resale value has ever been a meaningful factor when considering the value of a stadium to a community. Once its usefulness is used up, there are not many uses for a sports facility other than as a sports facility. I'm rather confused by the recent momentum for communities refusing to pay for sports venues. Since the Colliseum in Rome, sports stadiums have been created for public use by government. This has been 100% true until the last 20 years or so. Old Busch Stadium was paid for with public funds. The old St. Louis Arena was built with public funds. The Scottrade Center was created using public funds. The Edward Jones Dome was paid for with public funds. The same is true of every city's facilties all over the country until recently. The irony is, older folks are the biggest detractors against using public money to build stadiums despite the fact that their generations built stadiums on public money. Now a younger generation wants new stadiums for their sports teams and those same older folks are complaining that tax money shouldn't be used to build stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I am not saying that the depreciation is real. I am sure the Scott Kielvis is perfectly fine and will be for manyyears. The rapid depreciation is a direct result of extortion from parties seeking revenue streams on the backs of others (See "Field of Schemes" by Neil DeMause or his website). Oh I agree with the original sentiments of your post. I just wanted to point out that Scott Trade seems to be doing alright, but I am doubtful the same can be said for the Family Arena and Edward Jones Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 The Edward Jones Dome was paid for with public funds. What happens if the Rams say adios? Or want some new facility with mostly luxury boxes in West County? The web is full of economic impact studies that these facilities in most cities don't pay. Does it pay for a NFL team just to play 8 regular season, a exhibition game and maybe a play-off game a year. I always give LA credit for not falling for these greedy owners extortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Look at Madison Square Garden, it was built in 1968. Now the old Boston Garden did need to be replaced with the TD Garden. I believe no public $ went into construction. Fenway Park was built in 1914. With minor modifications over the last 100 years it's still standing and stronger than ever. Same for Wrigley. St. Louis should have kept Sportsmans Park alive and never moved to Busch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deutschkind Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I don't think resale value has ever been a meaningful factor when considering the value of a stadium to a community. Once its usefulness is used up, there are not many uses for a sports facility other than as a sports facility. I'm rather confused by the recent momentum for communities refusing to pay for sports venues. Since the Colliseum in Rome, sports stadiums have been created for public use by government. This has been 100% true until the last 20 years or so. Old Busch Stadium was paid for with public funds. The old St. Louis Arena was built with public funds. The Scottrade Center was created using public funds. The Edward Jones Dome was paid for with public funds. The same is true of every city's facilties all over the country until recently. The irony is, older folks are the biggest detractors against using public money to build stadiums despite the fact that their generations built stadiums on public money. Now a younger generation wants new stadiums for their sports teams and those same older folks are complaining that tax money shouldn't be used to build stadiums. It seems like stadium-building has changed a lot recently. Costs have skyrocketed (Bradley Center in Milwaukee cost 65 million, replacement is expected to be around 450 million. Also, ticket prices have greatly increased, and owners have never been making more money. It's hard to justify a city offering hundreds of millions of dollars when many owners can afford it themselves and by far the majority of the money ends up in owners' and players' pockets, not back in the community (yes, teams do plenty to give back to their communities). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I don't think resale value has ever been a meaningful factor when considering the value of a stadium to a community. Once its usefulness is used up, there are not many uses for a sports facility other than as a sports facility. I'm rather confused by the recent momentum for communities refusing to pay for sports venues. Since the Colliseum in Rome, sports stadiums have been created for public use by government. This has been 100% true until the last 20 years or so. Old Busch Stadium was paid for with public funds. The old St. Louis Arena was built with public funds. The Scottrade Center was created using public funds. The Edward Jones Dome was paid for with public funds. The same is true of every city's facilties all over the country until recently. The irony is, older folks are the biggest detractors against using public money to build stadiums despite the fact that their generations built stadiums on public money. Now a younger generation wants new stadiums for their sports teams and those same older folks are complaining that tax money shouldn't be used to build stadiums. This isn't really true. The Coliseum in Rome is an apples to oranges comparison with modern arenas and stadiums built for professional sports teams. The earliest stadiums built for professional sports teams were built without any public money. That goes for the old Browns turning the Grand Avenue Grounds (originally built for polo) into Sportsman's Park, the Cardinals building Robison Field, the Terriers turning Handlan's Park on the current SLU campus into Federal League Park, and the local ***** league team building Stars Park where the Harris-Stowe diamond is now.. Public money for sports stadiums traces its roots to the urban renewal policies of the 1950s and 1960s. It has more in common with the effort to replace the old urban slums with high-rise public housing develoments like Pruitt-Igoe than it does with the Coliseum in Rome. As professional sports has ballooned into a bigger and bigger industry, there's been a greater backlash over the use of public funds. I can understand both sides of the debate, and as a sports fan I can probably appreciate the idea of being a "major league city" more than a non-sports fan ever will. But Tarheel is absolutely correct that the research on cost and return does not paint a pretty picture for governments continuing to build these things in strictly economic terms. The root issue is that entertainment revenue isn't really economic growth; building things like stadiums merely moves money around that would otherwise be spent elsewhere. Sports fan or not, that's pretty obvious stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Ugh. Such a cool building. Didn't work as a sports arena or gallery space, so let's make it a monument to redneckism. Reminds me a little of having to settle for the Bull Riding bar as the anchor of Ballpark Village instead of BB King's. Semi-related: What is up with Mud Island these days? Monument to redneckism? Have you ever actually been in a Bass Pro? Do you fish? Bass pro is awesome. It's awesome to have Bass Pro, Cabelas, and Gander Mountain in the Saint Louis metro area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Yeah, I've been to Bass Pro, and yeah, I love to fish. I grew up with it and am at least a partial blood hillbilly myself. But the giant spectacle that is Bass Pro is just not my thing. I don't mean to insult anybody who likes Bass Pro. It's just a far cry from what that building was originally envisioned as. It just strikes me as sad is all. I went to not just basketball games but several museum-type events there, and loved it each time. But if it's the only way to keep the thing afloat, then it's better than the Pyramid ending up like the Checkerdome, even if I am not as personally enamored of this plan as I would've been if Cassily could've made his crazy idea of an Arenaquarium a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 One more thing I will say is that having a Bass Pro out in St. Charles or at the Lake or in Branson is a far cry from putting one in your downtown city center, in what was supposed to be a civic symbol of knowledge and culture. Imagine if they had turned the Kiel Opera House into a Tony Hawk-themed skate park...that's sort of what this strikes me as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Look at Madison Square Garden, it was built in 1968. Now the old Boston Garden did need to be replaced with the TD Garden. I believe no public $ went into construction. MSG just did a ~$1 billion dollar rehab about 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Fenway Park was built in 1914. With minor modifications over the last 100 years it's still standing and stronger than ever. Same for Wrigley. St. Louis should have kept Sportsmans Park alive and never moved to Busch. Wrigley is currently undergoing a $575mm renovation. The idea that Cardinal fans would be at all be comfortable driving to Grand and dodier to watch a Cardinals game is pretty naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 On the other hand, white St. Louisans today might be a little less uncomfortable with North City if the Cardinals had never left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 On the other hand, white St. Louisans today might be a little less uncomfortable with North City if the Cardinals had never left. Before Busch was downtown it was largely ghetto. Downtown was one of the few areas where poor minorities were allowed to live in the city. Busch was built on slums, they just basically moved to where Sportsmans park was located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Actually, the portion of downtown where Busch II was built had previously been Chinatown. We now have several neighborhoods scattered around with sizable Asian populations, but haven't had anything like the old Chinatown in St. Louis since it was torn down in one fell swoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Wrigley is currently undergoing a $575mm renovation. The idea that Cardinal fans would be at all be comfortable driving to Grand and dodier to watch a Cardinals game is pretty naive. North St. Louis might have had a different present if a baseball stadium was still located there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Saw Pearl Jam play there in August of 2000. Great show. Cool building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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