cheeseman Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Intentionally fouling is probably foolish. I don't think that is what Crews meant. I think it makes sense to be aggressive (especially with more than 15 seconds left on the clock) and if you end up fouling, then at least you get the ball back with a chance. It's about playing the percentages. If SLU doesn't get the ball back they have no chance of winning in regulation at all - either you go OT or lose. Not a very good situation. If you steal the ball, then you turn the tables. If you foul, then they still have to make the FTs and even if they do you still get the ball back with a chance to win or at least tie. If there isn't enough time left to give yourself a good scoring chance after FTs, then you have to play it straight up. Jett's foul against RI led to exactly how you hope this situation plays out. The question poised was not as you note - no problem with being aggressive but fouling on purpose is another thing all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 We have had this discussion before and it has been noted that most coaches - including RM - do not think giving points away with FTs is the right way to go - is that good enough for you.Not the same situation we're talking about but Syracuse doesn't foul last night and Duke hits the 3 to force overtime. Today Craig Robinson gives the foul and it works perfectly. I've yet to see a team lose by giving the foul but I've seen a hell of a lot of teams hit the 3 for the tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 We have had this discussion before and it has been noted that most coaches - including RM - do not think giving points away with FTs is the right way to go - is that good enough for you. At this point, most coaches are comfortable fouling up 3. It happens all the time now, whereas a few years ago it wasn't a mainstream thought. Fouling in a tie game is a whole different thought process. If in the spirit of being aggressive or fouling a poor free throw shooter in a 1-1 situation can make sense. I commend crews for thinking out of the box and not just doing what has always been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Was he talking about when we still had the foul to give? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Was he talking about when we still had the foul to give? Doesn't sound like it. From the article: Thanks to a foul with 25 seconds left, Mason had a chance to work for the last shot in regulation. Crews considered fouling to get the ball back, but SLU didn’t get it done. “If you wait for the last shot, you’ve got no chance to win basically,” he said. “You might as well be aggressive so if you foul, you at least have a shot in regulation. But we didn’t quite get that done and it worked out good.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Maybe they were looking to foul a specific player. I agree that at the very least he gets credit for considering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It was a tale of 2 games for Jett. 6 turnovers and some poor shooting decisions in the first 23 minutes, then lights out for the last 22 min. I agree with your point but not your 23/22 minute breakdown. It was more like 27+/18-. JJ's TOs in the second half came within a 3 minute span ending with 12:45 left in regulation and this period also included an ill advised drive into 2 or 3 GM bigs in which he had no chance of getting the ball into the net. In this case it was poor judgment which was recorded as a blocked shot by GM but not a TO for Jordair. I do agree with your assessment from that point on. He was an important part of our comeback and win. I just hate to see the carelessness that results in many of his TOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 How many minutes did JJ play in the second half? I dont remember him sitting at all. I stayed for the beginning of the womens game. JJ, MM and another were sitting at courtside, with an open seat in between. There must have been at least 5 kids/women who asked to have their pictures taken with them. They were so hospitable and nice. I spoke with one lady who was grinning from ear to ear. She remarked on how gentlemanly they were. We have every reason to be proud of our men. They represent the school well. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 How many minutes did JJ play in the second half? I dont remember him sitting at all. I stayed for the beginning of the womens game. JJ, MM and another were sitting at courtside, with an open seat in between. There must have been at least 5 kids/women who asked to have their pictures taken with them. They were so hospitable and nice. I spoke with one lady who was grinning from ear to ear. She remarked on how gentlemanly they were. We have every reason to be proud of our men. They represent the school well. mhg Austin McBroom posted this after the game. Our players are pretty freakin awesome and I'm not talking about on the basketball court. http://t.co/cmDLJosgKp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Austin McBroom posted this after the game. Our players are pretty freakin awesome and I'm not talking about on the basketball court. http://t.co/cmDLJosgKp The TV shot of DE goofing with some kids pregame was pretty friggin awesome too, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I agree with your point but not your 23/22 minute breakdown. It was more like 27+/18-. JJ's TOs in the second half came within a 3 minute span ending with 12:45 left in regulation and this period also included an ill advised drive into 2 or 3 GM bigs in which he had no chance of getting the ball into the net. In this case it was poor judgment which was recorded as a blocked shot by GM but not a TO for Jordair. I do agree with your assessment from that point on. He was an important part of our comeback and win. I just hate to see the carelessness that results in many of his TOs. Good points and I'll defer tp you on the minute breakdown, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 How many minutes did JJ play in the second half? I dont remember him sitting at all. JJ played a total of 40 minutes during the game, he was the player with most minutes of play. Counting the 5 extra minutes of overtime, he sat only 5 minutes during this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 That's the picture I was talking about. Neat, huh? mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 @Dr. Gunnie --- glad you had a good experience. @kshoe --- tough one to call. If you can foul the "right" guy, you might be more inclined to do so. That said, I've never seen the "wrong" guy (i.e. Copes) get the ball in such a situation nearly 99% of the time. I thought Jett was overly aggressive on the final inbounds and really believed the foul was missed. I can't really tell from Crews' comment if it was be aggressive and foul or just be aggressive. I'm going to say my choice, I give the foul on the one-and-one and go from there. Worst case, he makes two and we have the ball and the time. Of course, he makes one and misses and they rebound, we are screwed. And they were dominating th eoffensive glass at that time. By the way, final play, Glaze is in for rebounding and on the final shot, he loses Jenkins and focuses on the ball ---- which bounds out to Jenkins on the right baseline. Glaze got away with one there --- once the shot went up, you put your sizable arse on your man and box him out. We were extremely lucky in many ways on that final play in regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Doesn't sound like it. From the article: Thanks to a foul with 25 seconds left, Mason had a chance to work for the last shot in regulation. Crews considered fouling to get the ball back, but SLU didn’t get it done. “If you wait for the last shot, you’ve got no chance to win basically,” he said. “You might as well be aggressive so if you foul, you at least have a shot in regulation. But we didn’t quite get that done and it worked out good.” Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. I am just hoping something got lost in the translation somewhere. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 At this point, most coaches are comfortable fouling up 3. It happens all the time now, whereas a few years ago it wasn't a mainstream thought. Fouling in a tie game is a whole different thought process. If in the spirit of being aggressive or fouling a poor free throw shooter in a 1-1 situation can make sense. I commend crews for thinking out of the box and not just doing what has always been done. I thought we were talking about when the score is 2 or less - at least I was. Sure if you can send a poor FT shooter to line is one thing but generally you end up fouling good shooters since the other coach has those players on the floor at that time for just something like that happening - odds are you get burned. There is a reason why coaches know the % of what will happen and ten to go with the higher result. I am all for thinking out of the bow when it makes sense but this was not one in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 True story from one of my games 2 weeks ago in a tourney. We're up 2 with about 7 seconds left and a foul to give they're inbounding under the basket they defend with the length of the court to go. I call time out tell our team to let her catch the inbound and bring the ball up a little and foul to make them bring it in again. We deny the inbounds and the girl gets behind us and makes a dash for the 3 point line heaves the ball up from 25 feet and our girl intentionally fouls per "my instructions" they get to shoot 3. They make 2 and send the game to overtime. We win in overtime anyway. But this discussion just made me remember it and laugh. Better be very clear with your instructions. In the GM game instance it didn't sound like he was saying intentionally foul. It sounds like he wanted to be agressive for the steal and if the foul happened so be it, we get the ball back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gunnie Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 We were coming from up north, so the weather had us change our plans a bit. We didn't end up spending any time before or after the game because of the roads. The drive down wasn't too bad, but on the way back the rain turned to ice and we saw 6 different cars slide off the highway. Not a fun drive. I'll be back to St Louis for a football coaching clinic later this month... without the kids. I see BBQ in my future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slubilliken09 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 You can see why it's been a frustrating year for us - we are not a bad team, just can't catch a break at the end. We played our best game yesterday as we didn't have our usual breakdown late in the game - had two pretty good looks at the end that just didn't fall. You guys have a great team, great arena, and great fans. Good luck the rest of the way - and whatever you do, please beat VCU! Incredibly frustrating, I imagine. Another poster mentioned how it would have been the perfect (yet awful) conclusion to the game if someone had grabbed an offensive board at the end for the put-back killshot. We'll take care of VCU. Glad you enjoyed your visit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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